Grrrrr some people want jailing and the keys throwing away

[NutLoose]

Why?

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

I hope they get the bastard. Give him to me for 15 minutes and he'd never lift a thing again

BBC News - Poppy seller burned in aerosol attack in Manchester (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29870960)


A 15-year-old Army cadet who was selling poppies for Remembrance Day suffered burns to his face in an attack with a lit aerosol can.

The boy, who was wearing his uniform, was at a bus stop near Manchester Art Gallery at 18:00 GMT on Saturday when he was attacked.

Police said a man lifted an aerosol can and a lighter and sprayed him with lit fumes.

The cadet suffered burns to his face and singed hairs, officers confirmed.

Greater Manchester Police said the offender, described as black or Asian, 5ft 8in tall and wearing a dark hooded top, then walked off without saying a word.

[Typhoon93]

At the risk of sounding Xenophobic (trust me, I'm far from it!), the description of the offender matches most Muslims. Could this be yet another act of Jihad what with the crap that's going on in the Middle East and parts of Africa, considering he targeted somebody in a uniform selling Poppies?

I hope they catch the tosser who did it.

[Tankertrashnav]

the description of the offender matches most Muslims

"black or Asian, wearing a dark hooded top"

Also matches a lot of Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, West Indians, Christian Africans, Africans of other, or no religion, in fact it matches just about anyone who isnt white or female.

Whatever he is let's hope he is caught very quickly and gets a very long time for GBH (or possibly attempted murder)

Despicable!

[Al R]

Any attack on a minor is evil and indefensible, but was he attacked because he was selling poppies, or was that something that he had been doing earlier in the day but was unconnected with the attack? Was the assailant p*ssed? Not justifying it or minimising the importance.. just trying to establish if there's a direct link.

[Tashengurt]

I'm afraid no one's going away for GBH. Reports are the cadet suffered only minor injuries. Attempted murder won't be on the charge sheet either.
Hope the cadet recovers quickly.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[The Old Fat One]

I'm afraid no one's going away for GBH. Reports are the cadet suffered only minor injuries. Attempted murder won't be on the charge sheet either.
Hope the cadet recovers quickly.

Actually it could well be worse than GBH for the villain. If the victim is 15 and the perp is an adult then that's an offence against a minor - jail time and child offence register likely.

[Capetonian]

This is yet another case where the law is powerless to punish the miscreant appropriately. If identified, and my guess is he won't be (the CCTV won't have been working, there were no credible witnesses, etc) he should be handed over to the friends and family of the young lad he harmed, in a dark place with nobody to see what ensues.

It would nice to think that if the police catch him, he'd fall whilst resisting arrest, coming into hard contact with a very hard kerbstone, and then perhaps fall out of the back of a moving police van whilst trying to escape .............. where some nice folk armed with baseball bats and bicycle chains would be waiting for him.

I'm glad to hear that the young poppy seller wasn't seriously hurt.

[smujsmith]

Just for a change though the normally PC police are actually mentioning that it's an Asian man, and not just asking for witnesses to come forward. For the press to repeat it really shows that perhaps, the error of the PC brigade is finally being eroded. I hope they get this sod, and when they do, let him go and join his brothers in Syria, without a right to return to Britain. Pure scum.

Smudge:ok:

[Tashengurt]

Actually it could well be worse than GBH for the villain. If the victim is 15 and the perp is an adult then that's an offence against a minor - jail time and child offence register likely.

That would, of course be a gravity factor in any decision to prosecute and I would hope that such an attack would attract jail time but it's certainly not a given.

Capetonian, this isn't the seventies you know. Nobody falls down the stairs anymore. Mores the pity I often feel.

[Capetonian]

Capetonian, this isn't the seventies you know. Nobody falls down the stairs anymore. Mores the pity I often feel. True. In ZA they used to slip on the soap in the shower, or fall out of a fifth floor window.

[Snapshot]

It's about time our Government stood up and grew a pair and punished crimes like this appropriately! If this was motivated by selling poppies and not some richard head yob (lets face it, we all know it was..) After Lee Rigby, this is a very sad day indeed and im sure my words echo many out there that have read this thread! I have family taking up permanent residence in French soil and as far as I am concerned, this lad was representing 'my' family!

Need to find out how to send something to this lad, let him know he isn't alone and people 'do' care! Get well soon pal if you get to read these messages?

[Snapshot]

Hey Capetonain, how's the load shedding your side? Africa!!!

[Typhoon93]

TTN, as far as I'm aware, the other groups you mention don't go out of their way to attack anybody even remotely related to the Military.

If this fella is of an Islamic disposition, then I hope he is dealt with properly and not just given a slap on the wrist for ABH....

Even if he's not, I hope the book gets well and truly chucked at him!

[Al R]

Whatever his religion, I hope he is 'dealt with properly'.

[Stendec5]

Good job this wasn't in Rotherham, Rochdale, etc...we'd never have known about it.

[Pontius Navigator]

Just for a change though the normally PC police are actually mentioning that it's an Asian man

Disagree. Sadly this is just another PC word implicating at a stroke any one from Pakistan, through Uzbekistan, to Japan and beyond.

TTN, at least they seem to have eliminated white Muslim converts, Arabs and Africans.

Tag, maybe, but then I would blame the report, although most people would describe someone from the far east as Chinese appearance rather than Asian.

[Tashengurt]

Disagree. Sadly this is just another PC word implicating at a stroke any one from Pakistan, through Uzbekistan, to Japan and beyond.

Possibly. Or maybe it's the only description that's been given.

:ugh:

[Hangarshuffle]

Hope the young chap makes a full recovery, must have been a frightening experience.
I would have though the chance of a collar very possible, with the amount of CCTV and more these days in your average city, town. If plod can get it on, its a good test for them but I reakon they can get this person.
What was the motivation for the attack? A reaction to the presence of the uniform? More likely a planned attack on a collector bearing in mind the attacker was carrying an unusual item with which he has singled out a guy on his own and attacked him, so maybe it was a planned attack all along for that day and the perp struck lucky at the days end on a soft target? To take a detached view, its seems likely to expect more of the same. UK has been involved in fighting with and killing muslims in so many places over the last 20 I've now lost count,so are people really surprised if we were on the receiving end of some sort of savage retribution, justified or not? (Fighting is always so easy to justify, you only have to listen to our side to know that, let alone their side).
The never ending spiral of violence, once started its like one of those long rows of knock on dominoes.
Always remember a mate of mine setting about a young German kid in Deci, just because he was a German, and this is like 50 years after the wars end. There's no longer any reason to do it, but people still do.

[ValMORNA]

If the local police force is really under the P.C. folks thumb, as in some areas, then they might find that it was the lad's fault for being in Manchester whereas he could have gone to many other places in the UK where he could have sold poppies.

[ian16th]

Hey Capetonain, how's the load shedding your side? Africa!!! Two hours, 12:00-14:00, on the Natal south coast, more to come all next week :sad:

[Capetonian]

Escom is bankrupt, and has been run on a shoe string for many years and since 1994, when it generated enough power to supply not only our own needs but also that of neighbouring countries, the ANC have allowed it to become a national embarrassment.

South Africa is facing a serious energy supply crisis which today's event has thrown into sharp focus.

[Wander00]

Hope the youngster soon recovers, and no long term psychological damage. Also hope perpetrator is found and dealt with as severely as the law allows. If he subsequently meets with an accident, guess whose "will" it would be

[Wokkafans]

If only... .

http://i.imgur.com/0zu80j8.jpg

[Tankertrashnav]

TTN, as far as I'm aware, the other groups you mention don't go out of their way to attack anybody even remotely related to the Military.

You are making some assumptions here. Firstly that people from the other groups I mentioned are not likely to have been involved. The trouble with going into investigating a case like this, as any policeman will tell you, is once you go in with pre-conceived notions like yours, you are already looking for a suspect to fit your ideas. Police are looking for someone who is "black or Asian" - fine, so they neednt waste time rounding up the known white scumbags, and there will be many. But once they start saying "military target - must be a Muslim" they they may well miss the Sikh lad who knows this unfortunate cadet and has a personal grievance against him.

That said, I do hope that black or Asian, Muslim or otherwise, they catch the scrote soon.

[Al R]

Agreed. The last thing we must do is provide the ammunition for Islamic extremists to say to the moderates "See? They hate us all".

[Lima Juliet]

I don't hate them all, I just dislike those that don't want to integrate with UK society, customs and culture and want to bring little-Mungostan with them and set it up front and centre. I have some very good mates who's parents do not hail from the UK - guess what? They have integrated fully with the customs and culture of this country; including wearing a poppy and not torching a young lad from one of the UK's biggest youth organisations!

I'm pretty sure that if I conducted an attrocity of this magnitude in another country where this type of radical behaviour has 'sprung' from (see what I did there?), then I suspect at the very least I would be enjoying a stretch 'Midnight Express' stylee.

LJ

[Typhoon93]

TTN, I understand your point and I agree... although after what has been happening over the last 18 months, I am very suspicious of anybody who targets those who have ties with the military.

While I wasn't around during the worst of The Troubles, I do have an interest in military history and the attacks that have happened are quite similar in nature to those made by the IRA. Whether or not they were more or less brutal is open for debate, although I don't think said debate is appropriate on this thread so I will leave it there.

Any country who has been involved in Afghan and Iraq would be stupid to let their guard down on their streets, IMHO.

[spooky3]

The Religion of Peace, OH Dear, PC Crap!! words fail me.

[AGS Man]

LJ
In this part of the world the likely punishment would be like for like. I'm not saying 2 wrongs make a right but I can't help thinking how would that evil little scrote like the same treatment.

[Krystal n chips]

Despicable though the attack was, you might want to ask whose not so bright idea it was to have the cadet selling poppies at 18.00 hrs, in the dark, albeit the area is well lit and generally busy.

The area is extensively covered with CCTV....as is the whole of the City centre, so hopefully there will be sufficient footage to track his movements thereafter.

That, and the fact that, to many on here and without a shred of evidence so far, the description of the attacker being black or Asian automatically implies he was a radical of some sort.

There are plenty of people in the UK who just don't like military personnel full stop and without having any form of religious influence as to their reasons why.

[Lima Juliet]

Despicable though the attack was, you might want to ask whose not so bright idea it was to have the cadet selling poppies at 18.00 hrs, in the dark, albeit the area is well lit and generally busy.

You might want to ask yourself what type of country we live in when a 15 year old boy cannot stand in the uniform of the UK's biggest youth organisation, whilst selling poppies for a very large charity in one of our biggest cities, without having to live in fear of being torched!!!

Having 15 year olds out at 1800hrs should not invoke any cries of "what were they thinking?", whatsoever IMHO.

LJ

[vetflyer]

KNC

so when should the ' uniformed 15 yo curfew ' start ?

LJ

Totally agree !

Regards

[Satellite_Driver]

Actually, the relevant offence to charge might be the more rarely used Section 29 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 (my emphasis added):

29. Using explosives or corrosives with intent to do grievous bodily harm

Whosoever shall unlawfully and maliciously cause any gunpowder or other explosive substance to explode, or send or deliver to, or cause to be taken or received by any person, any explosive substance or any other dangerous or noxious thing, or put or lay at any place, or cast or throw at or upon or otherwise apply to any person, any corrosive fluid or any destructive or explosive substance, with intent in any of the cases aforesaid to burn, maim, disfigure, or disable any person, or to do some grievous bodily harm to any person shall, whether any bodily injury be effected or not, be guilty of an offence, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for life… .

Two significant points about this:

1. Unlike the more commonly used offences of Assault/ABH/GBH this is a 'conduct' crime rather than a 'result' crime, so the fact that the victim was not seriously injured does not affect the applicability of s.29.
2. The Terrorism Act 2006 makes reference to s.29 OAPA 1861, so it is still seen as a specific chargeable offence and is deemed to be of a terrorist nature.

[jolihokistix]

Hangarshuffle: "UK has been involved in fighting with and killing muslims in so many places over the last 20 I've now lost count,so are people really surprised if we were on the receiving end of some sort of savage retribution, justified or not?"

How could you write this stuff, straight out of radical Islamic propagation DVDs??? It is the first and biggest mistaken perception by radicalized recruits, which they use to justify everything that they are subsequently encouraged to perpetrate.

The West does not kill Muslims. The West does not hate Muslims. These are concepts which are trotted out, but have no basis in reality. On an individual level perhaps. The West has/have often gone out of their way to help Muslim communities.

To rewrite your sentence if I may, the UK's armed forces, (which contain many Muslims), have been involved in fighting baddies, ie those who violate international norms of civilized behaviour (some of whom are Muslims, maybe, although not according to some other Muslims, and some of whom are not), in many places.

Any of us who lose sight of this are asking for serious trouble.

[Roadster280]

Cadets are all weapon trained. Issue them a Browning and let them fight back.

(No, it's not a serious answer).

The perpetrator needs to be caught, and quietly locked up for a very long time. No great publicity, just lock him up and put the key out of reach for a while.

[S'land]

Sadly not a solitary attack.
BBC News - Army cadet poppy seller threat: Derbyshire man charged (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-29816087)

[BEagle]

The Army cadet was selling poppies for the Royal British Legion outside a supermarket in Belper, Derbyshire, when Adelso Saws allegedly made threats.

Police have charged the 34-year-old of Kilburn, Derbyshire, with using threatening, abusive, insulting words or behaviour with intent to cause fear of or provoking violence.


Presumably the same charming fellow who was jailed 10 years ago, having been released early from a 5 year stretch:

Saws, 24, was jailed for a total of ten-and-a-half-years after pleading guilty to robbery and having an imitation firearm. He was also sentenced to a further year's jail, to run consecutively, after the court heard he had been released early from a five-year sentence for affray.

More at Jail for pair in armed robbery - Yorkshire Evening Post (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/jail-for-pair-in-armed-robbery-1-2274417)

:mad:

[charliegolf]

I sincerely hope that these morons ARE NOT dealt with by the justice system.:E

CG

[Krystal n chips]

LJ

You might want to ask yourself what type of country we live in when a 15 year old boy cannot stand in the uniform of the UK's biggest youth organisation, whilst selling poppies for a very large charity in one of our biggest cities, without having to live in fear of being torched!!!

Having 15 year olds out at 1800hrs should not invoke any cries of "what were they thinking?", whatsoever IMHO.

I know exactly what sort of a country we live in. Random and unprovoked theft, and attacks, are a feature of our society and have been for centuries.

The fact the cadet was in uniform does not, sadly, make him immune from such attacks.

Neither did I suggest a curfew for 15 yr olds.

However, I have seen cadets and other poppy sellers many times, but can't recall seeing them selling in the dark or at night. And if they are, there is something called a "duty of care" I believe.

But, do you really think it's a good idea to have a cadet, presumably on his own, collecting cash in the dark ?....even if it was in Moseley St.

That, and the fact however unpalatable it may be for you, but not everybody in the UK is a fan of the military.

[Lima Juliet]

Krystal 'n Chips

I'm reasonably sure that the cadet supervisory care directive does not allow lone Cadets to roam the streets on their own collecting for charity. As for those that aren't a fan of the military, there is a special entrance for those folks!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Traitors_gate_2008.jpg/640px-Traitors_gate_2008.jpg

LJ :ok:

[orca]

I do so wish that a representative or two of this mindset would come and make my collection duty on Saturday that little bit more interesting. I can supply a Lat Long if you know of anyone who might have a ill founded grievance best directed by way of physical attack against someone in uniform.

That being said I am fully grown. (Factually incorrect, still growing but in wrong direction)

[Krystal n chips]

LJ

I'm reasonably sure that the cadet supervisory care directive does not allow lone Cadets to roam the streets on their own collecting for charity. As for those that aren't a fan of the military, there is a special entrance for those folks!


The initial reports were that he was attacked whilst selling poppies.

It now appears he was attacked whilst waiting for a bus back to Burnage.

On that basis, I would retract my comments about selling poppies in the evening because waiting at a bus stop puts matters into an entirely different perspective.

It would appear he was the victim of a random attack by an individual who may well have been under some sort of influence be that drink / drugs / mental health or any combination thereof.

The fact he is a cadet, and engaged in collecting as many do at this time of year, adds an emotive implication to the attack. That said, for all we know, the attacker could just as easily attacked anybody else, he just happened to choose this poor kid.

As for people not liking the military, for many civilians the military have no part or exposure in their lives. They simply have more pressing and relevant concerns.

On the other hand, when confronted with somebody like yourself adopting an autocratic stance as how they are "traitors", then it's not surprising people would view the military in a negative light.