Afghanistan

[NutLoose]

Sky's latest

Afghanistan: Britain Never Had Enough Soldiers (http://news.sky.com/story/1359890/afghanistan-britain-never-had-enough-soldiers)

Nooo sh*t Sherlock, talk about too little too late, and that is all countries involved! I am just amazed they are now coming out with this puerile dross.

[VinRouge]

Thank God that Bollocks is over and done with. Can we get back to looking after British interests now instead of trying to build nations and other such tree-hugging dross?

[Typhoon93]

Wishing all of the personnel a safe return home.

[goudie]

Wishing all of the personnel a safe return home.

And thinking of those who didn't!

[Typhoon93]

Very true Goudie.

I remember them every day, not just 11/11. :-)

[Cows getting bigger]

I happened to be one of the first RAF chaps on the ground in Afghanistan a smidgen short of 13 years ago. Rather perversely, I now find myself in the same theatre on a regular basis albeit not wearing an RAF uniform. I do wonder whether it was worth 450+ British fatalities, together with the thousands of physical injuries and mental scars.

Be safe on the way home chaps/chapesses.

[racedo]

Not worth a single Service man or womens life.............. should have just left them to it.

[melmothtw]

...should have just left them to it.


should have just left the Taliban to harbour Al Qaeda, so that it could continue to use Afghanistan as a launch pad for international terrorism?


I remember them every day, not just 11/11. :-)


Do you Typhoon? Every day?

[Typhoon93]

Melmothtw, yes. Every day. I am very grateful for the many sacrifices people have made to give us security at home, they gave their today for our tomorrow. From the World Wars (and even before them), right up to the more recent conflicts and the never ending operations to protect people on our own soil. People sleep safely in their beds at night because there are other people who are ready to fight evil on their behalf. I'm proud of our armed forces and I'm not afraid to admit it.

[racedo]

should have just left the Taliban to harbour Al Qaeda, so that it could continue to use Afghanistan as a launch pad for international terrorism?


Easy to control by banning all flights from countrys where they known to fly through and making EVERY single person who comes in on a flight from that country or via that country or is a citizen subject to mega security checks.

When the so called great and the good turn up for the western shopping and they find they are getting treated as suspected terrorists because their Govt are doing nothing then things change quickly.

Pakistan knowingly harboured Taliban and nowt done to them and they still getting $$$$$ in Aid.

Stop all funding so we don't have US giving Taliban Millions for supposedly eradicating drugs and deprive them of any way to trade in any currency by freezing them out of all bank trade.

Any of the ***** princes funding Al Q get an auto ban from any Western
travel or to any other country and all assets of them abroad frozen.

Reality is London / Paris / New York will all have played host to those connected to and funding Al Qa as they come on their shopping expeditions, really great that the sponsors have a high life while we sending people to die.

You want to win then go after the paymasters and publish their details, ban them entering western countries and watch them squeal.

Publish the dirt on them as well so people can see how they adhere to the beliefs they profess in public.

If west loses billions in oil monies for investment then so what as it has prostituted itself for the money anyway and refused to act.

[Danny42C]

Hope they all get out all right. ("Getting Out of Afghanistan" has form - notably around 1842 in the First Afghan War).

I still have my Grandfather's India General Service Medal with campaign bars for Mohmand and Kandahar (a bit later in the century, of course).

We never learn. D.

[airpolice]

Melmothtw,

He's only 21, and you really ought to read some of his other posts before engaging with him.

He's really not worth the effort, IMHO.

[gr4techie]

should have just left the Taliban to harbour Al Qaeda, so that it could continue to use Afghanistan as a launch pad for international terrorism?

I'm no expert. Were the Afghan peasants fighting in their villages capable of expeditionary international warfare? How many were walking down Reading high street in a dish dash with a RPG and AK47 ?

After the Soviet Union, Argentina, Saddam Hussain and now Afghan. I wonder who the next bogey man is going to be?

[BEagle]

gr4techie wrote: After the Soviet Union, Argentina, Saddam Hussain and now Afghan. I wonder who the next bogey man is going to be?

?v=4jf8Bt4gD9Y

[just another jocky]

gr4techie wrote:
Quote:
After the Soviet Union, Argentina, Saddam Hussain and now Afghan. I wonder who the next bogey man is going to be?


Clearly, a stealthy character, hiding in the shadows where no-one can see him and no-one knows his name. :E

[melmothtw]

Thanks for the history lesson there Typhoon. From before the world wars you say? Gosh, that goes back even further than I thought.

[Heathrow Harry]

We've invaded Afghanistan 4 times in 170 years and every time it's been a complete balls-up

Brave men and women killed, the whole country destabilised, the surrounding areas destabilised, a vast fortune wasted EVERY TIME

Makes me want to weep , it really does

[airpolice]

Harry, I fully support what I believe to be the sentiment of your post, but I have to take issue with the notion that the money has been wasted.

Particularly in the recent conflict, if you accept the notion, as I do, that the purpose of the conflict was to drive purchases of weapons and services from the big service providers, then it's been a roaring success.


The Eurofighter my not be the best thing (for the RAF) for the RAF to buy, but it's a better thing (for British Aerospace) for the RAF to buy than something that makes the money go to America.

The milions of Pounds and Dollars spent on ammo wasn't wasted, it was paid to companies who paid their employees and shareholders.

So..... rather than stealing the money by fiddling an expense claim, which;

A) Gets found out

& B) Can't reach the same levels.

You need a simpler way to get the money, cleanly, into your bank.


So, assuming you are in a position to do so, You'd be better off, long term, engaging (your country) in a conflict where the MOD needs to buy **** loads of stuff from your next employer.


This is from Where does all our military spending go? - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2013/05/14/where_does_all_our_military_spending_go_partner/)

I'm not saying that it's all true, but there are plenty of other sources for similar stories.


Outside the United States, the Pentagon controls a collection of military bases unprecedented in history. With U.S. troops gone from Iraq and the withdrawal from Afghanistan underway, it’s easy to forget that we probably still have about 1,000 military bases in other peoples’ lands. This giant collection of bases receives remarkably little media attention, costs a fortune, and even when cost cutting is the subject du jour, it still seems to get a free ride.

With so much money pouring into the Pentagon’s base world, the question is: Who’s benefiting?

Some of the money clearly pays for things like salaries, health care, and other benefits for around one million military and Defense Department personnel and their families overseas. But after an extensive examination of government spending data and contracts, I estimate that the Pentagon has dispersed around $385 billion to private companies for work done outside the U.S. since late 2001, mainly in that baseworld. That’s nearly double the entire State Department budget over the same period, and because Pentagon and government accounting practices are so poor, the true total may be significantly higher.

Not surprisingly, when it comes to such contracts and given our recent wars, the top two countries into which taxpayer dollars flowed were Afghanistan and Iraq (around $160 billion). Next comes Kuwait ($37.2 billion), where the military has had a significant presence since the first Gulf War of 1990-1991, followed by Germany ($27.8 billion), South Korea ($18.2 billion), Japan ($15.2 billion), and Britain ($14.7 billion). While some of these costs are for weapons procurement, rather than for bases and troop support, the hundreds of thousands of contracts believed to be omitted from these tallies thanks to government accounting errors make the numbers a reasonable reflection of the everyday moneys flowing to private contractors for the world of bases the United States has maintained since World War II.


Beyond the sheer volume of dollars heading overseas, an analysis of Pentagon spending reveals a troubling pattern: the majority of benefits have gone to a relatively small group of private contractors. In total, almost a third of the $385 billion has flowed into the coffers of just 10 top contractors, including scandal-prone companies like KBR, the former subsidiary of Halliburton, and oil giant BP.

In addition, Pentagon spending on its baseworld has been marked by spiraling expenditures, the growing use of uncompetitive contracts and contracts lacking incentives to control costs, outright fraud, and the repeated awarding of non-competitive sweetheart contracts to companies with histories of fraud and abuse. There’s been so much cost gouging that any attempt to catalog it across bases globally would be a mammoth effort. The $31-$60 billion in contracting fraud in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars alone, as calculated by the Commission on Wartime Contracting, which Congress established to investigate waste and abuse, suggests the global total could be astronomical.

Since 2001, U.S. taxpayers have effectively shipped hundreds of billions of dollars out of the country to build and maintain an enormous military presence abroad, while major Pentagon contractors and a select group of politicians, lobbyists, and other friends have benefited mightily

[racedo]

Since 2001, U.S. taxpayers have effectively shipped hundreds of billions of dollars out of the country to build and maintain an enormous military presence abroad, while major Pentagon contractors and a select group of politicians, lobbyists, and other friends have benefited mightily

Military industrial Complex at its finest and no wonder US electoral system has billions spent on it to keep people of both parties in power who wish to continue this.

Any criticism or highlight of this is seen as being Anti American.

[rh200]

The Eurofighter my not be the best thing (for the RAF) for the RAF to buy, but it's a better thing (for British Aerospace) for the RAF to buy than something that makes the money go to America.

Yet all the money flowing into the economy from American bases on your soil, nice.

Military industrial Complex at its finest and no wonder US electoral system has billions spent on it to keep people of both parties in power who wish to continue this.

Hardly, its the price of freedom, its getting more expensive unfortunately. People like to see conspiracy etc in all industries, especially when it comes to big business.

The use of a select group of companies is not just the realm of the military, you get than across industries. It usually revolves around the need to get the job done no matter what, and the perceived ability of said company to carry through.

Unfortunately there is a premium in that methodology, and theres only a few mega companies world wide that have expertise, and the financial and logistical clout to make things happen when you really need them.

[Lonewolf_50]

Any criticism or highlight of this is seen as being Anti American. Where did you come up with this nonsense?

[racedo]

Where did you come up with this nonsense?

A few years on here :)

People deciding that because you criticise Foreign Policy moronic acts of their Govt that you automatically hate them and everything they stand for.

Even worse when you criticise the actions of a President / Prime Minster / whatever. They personally hate and never voted for said person, but in doing so you must hate them and their nation as well so they need to defend the person they hate and never voted for.

[Lonewolf_50]

People deciding that because you criticise Foreign Policy moronic acts of their Govt that you automatically hate them and everything they stand for.
Who actually does this?

[Thelma Viaduct]

Another disgrace, hundreds of dead service personnel that died for nothing, £40 billion of taxpayers spent for nothing, well done again to our politicians, well done. :ugh::ugh:

[racedo]

Who actually does this?

Sadly surpisingly quite a few people :(
Names.... never because then it starts a fight and Pop would give me and others a rest.

[Lonewolf_50]

An interesting article in retrospect (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/asia/afghanistan-kabul-15-years/index.html) of the fall of Kabul in November of 2001.

Fifteen years ago this week, I was marching into the capital of Afghanistan along with thousands of cheering, triumphant Afghan fighters from the US backed-Northern Alliance. Suddenly, something struck me in my face. It was a silver foil-wrapped candy thrown by the cheering residents lining the streets as they welcomed the arriving fighters. The hard, celebratory chocolate-in-the-face was almost as abrupt and startling as the sudden collapse of the Taliban. He mentions the six week campaign and air strikes, along with much else.
As the Grateful Dead might sing it, from then to now: What a long, strange trip it's been.

[Jayand]

Air police and Melmoth, could you be any more condescending?
A 21 year old's opinion is just as worthy as any of yours, that's the great thing about opinions, every c##t has one!
As for military sales and Defence industry boom being counted as a reason for calling the Conflict a success!! what utter tripe!
Afghanistan was an unqualified failure, and the only sad statistic that matters is the poor young men and women who paid with their blood and lives for ABSOLUTELY nothing.
The region is as unstable as it has ever been, whilst our intentions were honorable, the outcome most certainly was not.

[Pontius Navigator]

Maryland, where have you been for two years?