Su-30 uncommanded ejection?

[sandiego89]

Indian air force has grounded their Su-30's with some early reports suggesting uncommanded ejection while on approach.

Can anyone comment if this aircraft has an automatic ejection feature? I recall the Yak-38 Forger had such a system if certain bank angles were exceeed or engine loss was detected (and saved more than one life). Also does it have a command ejection feature, where if one seat goes (for whatever reason/intentional or not) the other goes

Thoughts? Hands in the wrong place?

Update on Su-30 Accident (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/158226/indian-su_30-ejected-its-pilots-on-approach.html)

[Kluseau]

Seems in remarkably good condition for an aircraft that landed "20kms short" of the runway with no-one on board.

[sandiego89]

Seems in remarkably good condition for an aircraft that landed "20kms short" of the runway with no-one on board.

Agree, think it was much closer and on short final. Likely a translation error or mistake in the write up.

Although rare, uncommanded ejections have occurred, or folks have found themselves in the chute after improper handing the handle (like the US navy Captain on an F-14 fam ride that grabbed the handle to adjust himself in the seat), bumping things the wrong way, improperly seated handle (recent reds) etc.

Some swear they never touched the handle....

[megan]

Seems in remarkably good condition for an aircraft that landed "20kms short" of the runway with no-one on boardIt does happen from time to time.

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Mirage-III-A3-36/BC_3A3_36.jpg
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Mirage-III-A3-36/Mirage_A3_36.jpg

Mirage | Darwins Aviation Museum (http://www.darwinsairwar.com.au/mirage/)

http://www.urcaptainspekin.com/cornfield3.gif

F-106 Delta Dart - 58-0787 Cornfield Bomber (http://www.f-106deltadart.com/580787cornfieldbomber.htm)

[O-P]

Didn't a MB MK 10 go off by itself in Cyprus after the pilot kissed, OK smacked, the runway rather hard?

I also seem to remember an F3 bounced off the sea and punched out the Nav (D### S####). I believe, seat was found with the handle still in place. Sadly the front seater was not so lucky.

It's a bit different to the seat going woof all on it's own I'll admit.

[GreenKnight121]

And sometimes, after a commanded ejection, the airplane refuses to crash.

This F-106 The Cornfield Bomber ? HistoricWings.com :: A Magazine for Aviators, Pilots and Adventurers (http://fly.historicwings.com/2013/02/the-cornfield-bomber/) was jacked up and put on a trailer, taken back and repaired, and returned to service - the pilot ejected at 15,000 feet while in a flat spin he had been unable to get out of.

The ejection brought the aircraft out of the spin, and another pilot on the sortie radioed the descending pilot "Gary, you better get back into that thing".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/F-106_unmanned_landing.jpg/777px-F-106_unmanned_landing.jpg

[tdracer]

I just keep thinking - punching out has to be a pretty, ah, intense experience even when you know it's coming (I like the description - not mine - that ejecting is 'attempted suicide, in the face of certain death' :}).
I can't imagine what it would be like to have the aircraft unilaterally decide to spit you out :eek::mad:

[megan]

ejecting is attempted suicideWhat grade do you give a gentleman who failed in 31 suicide attempts? (Bernard Lynch - Martin Baker seat tester)

[Rotorhead1026]

IIRC some of the "attempts" were ground static tests ... still the stress on his back must have been enormous. Certainly no history of osteoporosis in his family. An MRI of his spine would be publishable, no doubt. :)

[megan]

The ground tests were in addition to the 31 actual ejections from an aircraft in flight.

[Fareastdriver]

The ejection brought the aircraft out of the spin,

Sounds like the Javelin spin recovery; eject the navigator. The recoil of the seat going off was sufficient to push the nose down which disemblanked off the tailplane enabling the aircraft to recover.

[Rocket2]

"And sometimes, after a commanded ejection, the airplane refuses to crash."
Brings back memories of the Hunter ejection on the Hartland Point range (early 1970s?), the aircraft did a 180 & flew onto Ilfracombe & spiked into a hotel IIRC.
Does the building still exist? - going there in a few weeks, would like to see it.
R2

[Wokkafans]

This incident ?

Tintagel Plane Crash Story (http://www.tintagelweb.co.uk/Tintagel%20Plane%20Crash.htm)

Plane Crash Colour Photos (http://www.tintagelweb.co.uk/planecolourphotos.htm)

[Rocket2]

Thanks Woka - yes that's the one

[Worf]

In response to SanDiegos question - no the SU-30 MKIs do not have the Yak 38 automated ejection seat.

[SpazSinbad]

For 'sandiego89': I was astonished to read this WARNING (will robinson) in the NATOX for the Hornet the other day:

FnA18-A/B/C/D NATOPS USN Field Landing Advice (runways)
...WARNING
"Commanding full aft stick deflection with the ejection seat within 1.75 inches of the top limit can cause the lower ejection handle to snag on the air-to-air weapon select switch and result in inadvertent ejection. In particular, during stabilator braking after a full stop landing the control stick should be pulled back only the minimum required distance to command full stabilator authority. Inadvertent ejections have occurred after stabilator braking when the pilot has released full aft stick."
http://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-ABCD-000.pdf (18Mb)

[OK465]

....with the ejection seat within 1.75 inches of the top limit

If the F-18 seat height is anything like in the F-4, that is one short Navy pilot. :}

....can cause the lower ejection handle to snag on the air-to-air weapon select switch

........also the advantage of a side stick.

To add to the list,

We had a guy inadvertently ejected from an A-7D (on climb-out at night :eek:) when the canopy shattered and the wind blast ruffled the upper face curtain and fired the seat. As a result of this they then disconnected all the upper ejection handles on Guard A-7s. He sustained some severe neck and back injuries.

Also flew with a guy who skipped an F-105 off a small ridge-line and 'fortunately' for him was 'inadvertently' ejected from the impact. Near sunset headed west on a low level nav leg on the Salt Lake range complex and he didn't see the ridge in the glare. He ended up immobilized from injuries sustained, in a small pond on a freezing evening. Fortunate again for him, the 'Pedro' just happened to be in the area headed home and got to him quickly.

[Fonsini]

Wasn't there an uncommanded MB ejection from a Harrier on some type of test flight, said aircraft then becoming the Lightning's only confirmed kill as it flew blissfully on while still pilotless.

I'm running on the fumes of aging memory here but as far as I recall that incident did not end well for the pilot.

I can barely imagine munching on your in-flight sandwich while gazing down at the instruments when suddenly you're doing 20g vertical with a dislocated head sitting in your lap. Scary things bang seats.

[John Farley]

Fonsini

In the Harrier case you mention a video from a USAF aircraft (that formated on the Harrier until it ran out of fuel and descended into the sea) showed that the seat did not leave the aircraft. The pilot was killed following an inadvertant man seat separation that resulted in him being dragged out of the aircraft. His body was found later near Boscombe Down.

[Al R]

I remember that, wasn't the conjecture that the test pilot was trying to adjust the seat height due to being dazzled by a setting sun?

[John Farley]

Al R

There were several possible explanations that could account for what was found on the ground.

The only evidence that could have determined the actual sequence of events went down with the seat.

[GreenKnight121]

Ah... that was about 75 miles NE of where, when I was about 13 or so, I saw a pair of F-105s fly past below me.

My family was on a rock-hunting trip about 15 miles NE of Wendover, and my father and I were on a small peak - there was another peak about 300 yards to the west, and the Thunderchiefs flew through the saddle between them (about 100' above the saddle and about 25' below me).

This was about 1975, in the summer. The hills & ridges rise rapidly in that area, and are just as bare of vegetation as the flats.