Suspected Terror attack in Canada [Archive]

Basil

21st Oct 2014, 11:57

Westboro chap and child:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/WBC_protest.jpg

Well, if those boys were really Christians, they'd already know that, as befits His status, He only smokes cigars :E

I see that they have a custom of picketing the funerals of those who offend them. I'd like to see them try that at a London East End crim's farewell.

West Coast

21st Oct 2014, 15:22

Are members of the westboro church deliberately running over soldiers? As vile as their message is, it's foolish to draw parallels between a church full of largely non violent nutters and attempted murder by an individual.

Lonewolf_50

21st Oct 2014, 17:02

I note the knee jerk response to "but Christians too" anytime someone criticizes a Muslim.

Pathetic.

Here's a Pro Tip for Basil: Fred Phelps is dead, and I daresay his church isn't doing so well. And no, they don't go around killing people, they go around saying rude things. There is a difference.

con-pilot

21st Oct 2014, 17:21

attempted murder by an individual

Sad to say no longer attempted murder, the critically injured solider died.

I guess to some here when a Muslim beheaded a woman in Moore, Oklahoma while shouting Islamic phrases, that was just workplace violence.

Bob Viking

21st Oct 2014, 18:09

Since I live in the town where six CF18s departed for sunnier climes today, this is something that has concerned me for a while. The Canadians, bless their cottons, have little experience of dealing with domestic terrorism. We had the IRA (mostly before my military time) and then the Lee Rigby incident to sharpen our senses. I stopped wearing uniform in public a few weeks ago unlike most other personnel here.

Despite our best efforts to always appear PC and not come across as racist I'm afraid this latest bunch of nutbags (I mean IS/ISIS/ISIL) are making it harder every day. I try my hardest to treat everyone the same and not view people with suspicion based on thier appearance but that is getting harder by the day.

It is not the politically acceptable thing to say but any Muslim is going to be increasingly viewed with suspicion by people in Western countries. Both the Islamic communities in these nations and governments need to wake up and address the problem before hate crimes start happening.

Just my opinion of course but I have a family to look after so sorry if I appear to be xenophobic!

BV:eek:

barnstormer1968

21st Oct 2014, 19:18

BV
Don't go down the racist or xenophobic route as not only is that not appropriate but it may be putting you at a disadvantage !

This new thing is truly asymmetric but in location as well as force strength.
Back here in Blighty we could say we are taking part in a massively asymmetric civil war (just calling it something for the sake of giving it a name).
If we as a society could be attacked by members of our own community whom are living amongst us then concentrating on strangers from another race wouldn't be much help :)

Almost everyone in our two countries fall into two groups: those who support our countries and those who don't as they may be consciencous objectors or don't support foreign policy. As we live in democracies both the above groups should be supported. There are a small number in a third group though and those are the people who would activity work against us. I have no time for these people (whatever country they live in/work against) but am thankful that they only represent a tiny minority of our populations.
Keep safe and simply be neutral to people you meet :)

Typhoon93

21st Oct 2014, 20:37

Bob, you don't come across as xenophobic at all. 'Sensible' is more the word, and I can understand you wanting to protect your family. That is natural. :)

I really hope that military personnel and their families don't have to go back to checking under the car before opening the door and switching the engine on, every morning.

Fox3WheresMyBanana

22nd Oct 2014, 02:55

Canada does not have Alert States, and I really hope we don't have to start having them. I think we will probably put this one down to a wacko, albeit a religious-of-sorts wacko. Fingers crossed there are no more.

Fonsini

22nd Oct 2014, 04:10

I think we need to find a new planet - and when we do rule #1 needs to be :mad:

West Coast

22nd Oct 2014, 06:05

I think we will probably put this one down to a wacko, albeit a religious-of-sorts wacko. Fingers crossed there are no more.

I also hope there are no more, but I think you're overlooking the threat by writing it off as a nutter. This, the plot in Australia to behead someone in public, the killing in Oklahoma, the unfortunate lad in London are the ones that come to immediate memory, there's plenty more. The lone wolf or very small group action seems to be the path forward for DIY jihadis.

Simplythebeast

22nd Oct 2014, 06:44

According to News sources the attacker had been deprived of his passport by Canadian Authorities having attempted travel to Turkey and having been suspected of terrorist links. It seems he wasnt JUST a whacko.
So the question is....what do we need to do with these people? Apparently having stopped him travelling they had insufficient evidence to charge him with anything so he was free to act out his own little fatwah at home instead.
Perhaps we ought to let them travel out but ensure they never get back in.

Brian W May

22nd Oct 2014, 06:56

[quote][Since I live in the town where six CF18s departed for sunnier climes today, this is something that has concerned me for a while. The Canadians, bless their cottons, have little experience of dealing with domestic terrorism. We had the IRA (mostly before my military time) and then the Lee Rigby incident to sharpen our senses. I stopped wearing uniform in public a few weeks ago unlike most other personnel here.

Despite our best efforts to always appear PC and not come across as racist I'm afraid this latest bunch of nutbags (I mean IS/ISIS/ISIL) are making it harder every day. I try my hardest to treat everyone the same and not view people with suspicion based on thier appearance but that is getting harder by the day.

It is not the politically acceptable thing to say but any Muslim is going to be increasingly viewed with suspicion by people in Western countries. Both the Islamic communities in these nations and governments need to wake up and address the problem before hate crimes start happening.

Just my opinion of course but I have a family to look after so sorry if I appear to be xenophobic!

BV/quote]

Absolutely Bob. I've been saying this for years and have sustained accusations of racism from the PC Brigade, but it's simply the truth - and is beginning to out.

Simplythebeast

22nd Oct 2014, 07:10

In this specific case the attacker wasn't Asian and you may not have benefited from the defence of treating all Asians with suspicion.
However recent photos show him sporting a full beard so perhaps we need to view all bearded men with suspicion.
ISIL or whatever they are presently called will be very pleased to know that we are getting to a stage where all Asians/ Muslims are viewed with suspicion. It means they are one step further on the path of seperatism and using their 'victim' ploy they can then appeal to all Muslims to see that they are under threat and to join ISILs ranks either directly or through tacit support.
Its a sick world and its going to get much worse before it gets better.

GreenKnight121

22nd Oct 2014, 08:09

FantomZorbin - read post #10.

Basil

22nd Oct 2014, 08:12

Here's a Pro Tip for Basil: Fred Phelps is dead, and I daresay his church isn't doing so well. And no, they don't go around killing people, they go around saying rude things. There is a difference.
Calm down Lonewolf. That posting was a joke. I'm onside; well, apart from not caring for Godbotherers of any hue.

HTB

22nd Oct 2014, 09:01

Always assuming that there is a God to bother...

Mister B

Simplythebeast

22nd Oct 2014, 09:07

I cant be bothered bothering a God who isnt there to bother?

jimjim1

22nd Oct 2014, 10:31

My view is that any country that allows the religion of peace and it's practice to flourish unchecked is a country at war, they just don't know it yet. The religion of peace is nothing like anything our lifetime's experience has prepared us for, it is an exquisitely honed system of political conquest that has only ever previously been stopped by violence. It will be no different this time around.

Freedom of religion should not be the same thing as freedom to wage war, presently they are equivalent where I live.

TBM-Legend

22nd Oct 2014, 11:14

How are the two guys that were run over?

Tragically one is deceased...thanks to a coward...

rh200

22nd Oct 2014, 11:57

.thanks to a coward...

Otherwise known as a holy warrior or martyr by those whose his culture he follows.

Archimedes

22nd Oct 2014, 14:29

BBC Breaking News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29724907). Not good.

Simplythebeast

22nd Oct 2014, 15:19

Shots now being reported in a Hotel in Ottawa ( breaking.)

Tashengurt

22nd Oct 2014, 16:05

Starting to look like a concerted Mumbai style attack.

Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

Bob Viking

22nd Oct 2014, 16:26

Sometimes I hate being right.

BV:(

NutLoose

22nd Oct 2014, 16:32

I know what I'd do to them, but I better not say.

Brian W May

22nd Oct 2014, 16:46

Sometimes I hate being right.

Absolutely.

It doesn't much matter what the PC brigade pick up on as the 'Racist' or 'Religiously Intolerant' labels are almost interchangeable. The cost of ignoring reality is yet to be counted.

The Muslim (peace-loving?) majority are going to have to make a choice whose side they're on pretty damn soon . . .

VinRouge

22nd Oct 2014, 17:47

Sounds as if the local security forces have turned one fat Arab into Swiss cheese.

NutLoose

22nd Oct 2014, 18:25

The Soldier at the memorial has died :(

MPN11

22nd Oct 2014, 18:53

I've been watching on Fox ... where the 'anchor' kindly summarises whilst everything said is repeated in French :ugh:

National Security alert gone from Low to Medium. With an on-going operation, one might say that Medium might have been appropriate once Canada deployed aircraft. But then I'm not a politician.

And who are the perpetrators? Are they genuine Muslims, or just some black kids who thought this was more 'entertaining' than gang warfare? Much to be unravelled and revealed, but so sad for the fallen soldier.

PS: well expressed earlier, Bob Viking.

clunckdriver

22nd Oct 2014, 20:18

They are not "Black Kids", rather the first one who ran over two military personell in Quebec,{killing one of them} was a Quebecer who had become radicalized over the last year or so, the RCMP had already siezed his pasport but claimed they didnt have enough evidence to lock him up, however the SQ {the Quebec police} filled him full of holes and saved the taxpayers a lot of money on a trial and other crap which our totally PC country now grants these dirtbags . Now a day later in Ottawa we have another dead member of the military {Glengary Highlanders Regt I belive} who even after the targeted killings in Quebec, was not issued with live amo for his gun whilst on gaurd duty in a totally exposed position! a great example of the total incompetance of our senior officers in all branches of the CAF. {they are most likely doing a study, followed by a white paper and a bunch of commities looking at the problem}The killer in Ottawa even managed to enter Parliment where he too was shot full of holes, however the question is how in hell was he allowed to get this far?Canada needs to wake up to the danger within, created in part by a totally flawed imigration system and elected members of various governments who have no clue about the world outside their local area, or that we need to clean house of these idiots.{PS, the dead Cpl was in fact from the Hamilton Highland Regt}

barnstormer1968

22nd Oct 2014, 22:18

RIP to this second Canadian soldier, and thoughts are with his family and loved ones.

Yet again this latest murderer was a Canadian citizen it seems.
I do agree with BV that the Canadians are not used to this kind of issue though and need to get on a rapid learning curve.
Scenes of tables and chairs used to barricade internal parliament rooms show just how I'll prepared the authorities are.

jimjim1

22nd Oct 2014, 23:38

I do agree with BV that the Canadians are not used to this kind of issue though and need to get on a rapid learning curve.It is entirely simple.

Have muslims get deaths.

We in Britain now accept that equation and absorb the results without concern.

The "learning curve" is I guess merely a process of acclimatisation.

VinRouge

22nd Oct 2014, 23:59

It's wrong to associate Muslims with these acts. It would also be wrong not to do everything in our power to exterminate those who align themselves with ISIS.

rh200

23rd Oct 2014, 00:25

It's wrong to associate Muslims with these acts.

Though I understand your sentiment, technically to have Islamic terrorism you have to have Muslims. Whilst technically the vast majority of them are peaceful and want no part in this, statistically there will always be some.

Hence the large your base the more potential terrorists, there is no rocket science in this. In a world where we politically will jump back and forth with numbers using either statistical or absolute terms to suit or political view, then anti Islamic feeling is to be expected.

Lantern10

23rd Oct 2014, 00:36

According to this report he was a recent convert who had had his passport seized.

Canadian Michael Zehaf-Bibeau thought to be the gunman in Ottawa shooting (http://www.smh.com.au/world/canadian-michael-zehafbibeau-thought-to-be-the-gunman-in-ottawa-shooting-20141023-11aa17.html)

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 01:56

Rh200, agreed, however the problem could be dealt with if we didn't listen to lawyers and didn't pretend that the Geneva convention should extend to this pond life.

Exactly why Assads gassing of similarly aligned individuals I n Syria should have been met with "so what" instead of the near western offensive action against Assad. Thank god common sense prevailed.

Whether it's russian heavy handedness, syrian heavy handedness or similar (saddam for all his failings kept this lot well and truly under control) we have to accept our western idylls leave us vulnerable from mal aligned forces in our own borders. Which is why known protagonists need to be bagged and thrown into a gitmo equivalent. It's well and truly time to take off the gloves and apply utterly disproportionate force to get the message across.

This whole Arab spring is nothing less than a destabilising outcome for the region. Why the hell we went along and supported elements that had extremism as their goal I will never know. Even a relatively moderate country like Egypt can't get it right, what hope do we have for Libya, Algeria, Iraq and Syria? The armed forces are supposed to be looking out for our own population, not being a "force for good". Granted, we need to take action in the British interest but I don't particularly see much in recent times that has met anything other than a liberal do gooder agenda.the biggest fallacy ŵe need to guard against is this politicians urge that we need to be seen to do something. Unfortunately, the world isn't that black and white.

FantomZorbin

23rd Oct 2014, 10:02

GreenKnight

Apologies - I missed that post ... my post deleted.

Fox3WheresMyBanana

23rd Oct 2014, 10:04

and didn't pretend that the Geneva convention should extend to this pond life

It doesn't.

IS is not a recognized State.

If Canada wishes to change its Laws in regard of these types, it can.

Simplythebeast

23rd Oct 2014, 10:26

It would seem that the perpertrators of both Canadian attacks were know by the Authorities and had been deprived of their passports. Maybe we should be allowing them to leave our Countries for Turkey, Syria or wherever and then rescinding their passports thus stopping them coming back.
In joining the fight for IS they are effectively turning their back on their home Country so let them become members of their new caliphate.
The present Laws say we cant make a person Stateless......change the Law under emergency powers. No Civilised Country needs these scum and no sane person would welcome them back so what is so difficult?

Avtur

23rd Oct 2014, 13:03

My thoughts and payers are with the family of 25 yr old Cpl Nathan Cirillo (Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Regiment), who leaves behind a six year old Son. RIP.

Great effort by the lady who was administering CPR to Nathan (as seen on CBC News last night).

darkroomsource

23rd Oct 2014, 13:21

The problem with letting them leave and then rescinding their passports, and not letting them back, is that if they only have one citizenship you will leave them stateless. And there are a whole bunch of international agreements as well as moral reasons that we don't want to do that.

Of course, to go join another "state" might be an exception, but then, where does one draw the line?

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 13:47

You could make them stateless by declaring them an enemy of the state, tracking them down abroad and turning them to mush in the Syrian desert. These people when found abroad should be taken out.

Heathrow Harry

23rd Oct 2014, 13:52

or missing them , hit some innocents and have another bunch of people who really, really hate us

I'd have thought the last 100 years should have proved that bombing people in the Middle East does no bloody good at all

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 13:58

Have you not seen the video footage of them brainwashing kids? They hate us anyway. A bit of collateral will save trouble in future years.

All the last 100 years have proved us we haven't done a good enough job. Anyone living along side ISIS is fair game.boming the crap out them seems to be working quite well in Kobane.

Heathrow Harry

23rd Oct 2014, 14:03

IT DOESN'T WORK

everyone has had a go - us, the Yanks, the French, the Russians, the Italians, the Israelis, the Turks - sometimes on our own and sometimes together - and they've had a few bashes amongst themselves

we don't belong there and we should stay out

the only way would be to nuke the whole areas top to bottom - kill everyone - and that would cause a few problems in Europe ......... and as for the oil price......................

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 14:09

The only comparable we have in succeeding against a load of deity worshipping, mass murdering religious nut jobs was victory over Japan. Only complete disproportionate force will work.

The insurgents have it in their minds that their success has been some divine right, given to them by Allah. It's time they woke up, smelled the coffee and returned from their raping, pillaging, torture and murder to find their home gone under a 2000lb preferably free fall crater. They need to know that western nations will categorically not be held to ransom.

You say it hasn't worked, but it has. You only have to look at what the French foreign legion did in Algeria to realise that it can, and has been done. Law of Armed conflict needs to be put to one side though.

Listen to this guy. Do you think he is up for a bit of negotiation round the peace table? The only way to deal with this is a massacre of all those involved in ISIS and who support ISIS.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b53_1413843302

Heathrow Harry

23rd Oct 2014, 14:12

Vin Rouge - the French LOST in Algeria - did no-one tell you?

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 14:16

And existed relatively peacefully until the Arab Spring, with westerners free to travel relatively unhindered there.

clunckdriver

23rd Oct 2014, 14:35

Just came on CBC News, the guys mother works for the Federal imigration department, make what you will of this gem of information.

BEagle

23rd Oct 2014, 14:46

Heathrow Harry, the French didn't actually 'lose' in Algeria, although the OAS might well have thought so. Following the March 1962 Evian agreement, in July 1962 a referendum was held in Algeria and the populations was asked 'Do you want Algeria to become an independent state, co-operating with France under the conditions defined in the declarations of 19 March 1962?'.

Over 99% said they did, so Algeria became independent and most of the Pieds-Noirs (European Algerians of French descent, mostly from the colonial era) returned to France.

Avtur

23rd Oct 2014, 15:21

Just came on CBC News, the guys mother works for the Federal imigration department, make what you will of this gem of information

And he was applying to be a Border Protection (CBSA) Officer...

rh200

23rd Oct 2014, 21:23

'd have thought the last 100 years should have proved that bombing people in the Middle East does no bloody good at all

Hardly, if we stopped playing tiddley winks with them, we might have more luck. Why did the Germans and Japanese get special treatment. You start treating them as a serious enemy, and fight to win you will see results.

As I have said before, the psychology of all this hasn't change in thousands of years. We as a species have been taking over, defeating, losing, suppressing etc for eons, the MO's for successful campaigns is not rocket science.

Our biggest problem is us, and our enemys know it.

Lonewolf_50

23rd Oct 2014, 22:00

VinRouge:
The only comparable we have in succeeding against a load of deity worshipping, mass murdering religious nut jobs was victory over Japan. Only complete disproportionate force will work.
referring to the Japanese as religious fanatics strikes me as a curious reading of Japanes culture in the early 20th century ... and inaccurate.

That said, it was very much a clash of cultures, and a whole lot of force was required. Lots of force.

VinRouge

23rd Oct 2014, 23:05

What I meant was this:

BBC - Religions - Shinto: Divinity of the Emperor (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/shinto/history/emperor_1.shtml)

PacWest

24th Oct 2014, 05:51

Just came on CBC News, the guys mother works for the Federal imigration department, make what you will of this gem of information.The cbc(the commie broadcasting corp?) and,

Yes. The Mother is the Deputy Director of the Refugee & Immigration Commission [or former dep/dir, now retired - or - soon will be] - and - his Father is a Libyan who returned to Libya and fought for a rebel faction against Gaddafi in 2011 ..and, the CBC claims this ISIS recruit thug is nothing more than a misunderstood doper?:ugh:

`

VinRouge

24th Oct 2014, 12:55

Top marks! ;):D

LiveLeak.com - How the coalition deals with IS

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/24/LiveLeak-dot-com-543_1414125225-Unbenannt-1_1414125236.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f 5e99818bdd6924c41dcd7a1f7&ec_rate=230

"Splash"

Lonewolf_50

24th Oct 2014, 12:59

..and, the CBC claims this ISIS recruit thug is nothing more than a misunderstood doper? :ugh: Pac West, he might be that as well. I've found that dopers often slur their words and phrases.
Combine that with his foreign accent.
He is probably misunderstood more often than not. :}

For a few of the Congressional Morons on my side of the border who hate firearms: is a 30-30 now going to be reclassified as an assault weapon? :ugh:

Vin Rouge: I am quite familiar with that aspect of Japanese culture, thanks. What I wasn't too comfortable with is how you described it.

If you get the chance to go to Japan, there are still plenty of Shinto shrines where people pay their respects to a variety of the kami, and their ancestors. I always treated such places as holy ground, out of respect for local custom and tradition.

To all: apologies for thread drift.

clunckdriver

25th Oct 2014, 15:05

Yesterday I took one of our little aircraft and flew down highway 401,{ for those not from Canada this is the main route between Montreal and Ontario} During the pasage of the convoy escorting our murdered reservist from Ottawa to Hamilton the bridges and roadsides were packed with Canadians saying goodbye to him. and paying their last respects. Today comes news of the first defaceing of a mosque, hardly suprising given the circumstances, if those of the Islamic faith dont get their house in order right now I fear this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Wensleydale

25th Oct 2014, 16:27

This cartoon appeared in a Canadian paper. It says everything really.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/bm_cartoon/Brucex23%20RGB_12.jpg

Basil

25th Oct 2014, 16:43

VinRouge,Another British jihadist from Portsmouth has been reportedly killed on the frontline in Syria, the fourth to die from a group of six men who travelled from Hampshire last year to fight for the Islamic State
Tragic.

:rolleyes:

clunckdriver

25th Oct 2014, 17:01

Basil, pray why do you consider the death of one of these killers, rapist assholes, tradgic?

Bob Viking

25th Oct 2014, 17:14

Clunck.
I think that was a case of good old fashioned British sarcasm.
That blokes death will be mourned by very few people in Britain.
BV

Typhoon93

25th Oct 2014, 17:58

What annoys me even more than the scum who go over there to fight with ISIL, are their families being deluded enough to believe they will actually be able to come home and live a normal life, on the slim chance that their appeals work.

They will be arrested as soon as they are back on British soil, and hopefully the Judge will make sure they need to stick a cork up their arse every time they have a shower, for many years to come....

clunckdriver

25th Oct 2014, 18:00

Viking, over here we have at least two federal politicians who have sugested that we negotiate with these scumbags, also provide humanitarian aid, rather than bomb the daylights out of them, so such" British humour" is likely to fall on deaf ears in Canada, so forgive me if I fail to see the lighter side of this, I gues having spent a fair bit of time in the ME I have become jaded with the whole lot of them.{with one exception}

Typhoon93

25th Oct 2014, 18:08

Clunck, if you think you are the only country in the world that is affected by ISIL and have sympathisers and people who oppose military intervention against them, then you are mistaken. When Parliament was voting on military intervention in Iraq, there was a group of anti-war protesters, protesting outside Downing Street. They totally disregarded the feelings of the families of the hostages.

Sometimes, a little bit of light hearted humour goes a long way. We all hate ISIL, so it's only natural that we ridicule them.

clunckdriver

25th Oct 2014, 19:56

Typhoon, of course we dont think we are the only country affected by these scumbags! or is this absurd statement further "British humor" which as a colonial its way above me? Regarless of your intent the fact that the UK also has politicos as removed from the real world as some of ours seems to indicate that the Chamberlin DNA pool is alive and well world wide, regretfully Canada, along with the UK ,has so degraded our military that we can no longer "send a gunboat" and fix things, we like you, dont have a single flatop left in service, this thanks to years of Governments with no clue that the rest of the world can be a very nasty place.

megan

26th Oct 2014, 01:14

are their families being deluded enough to believe they will actually be able to come home and live a normal lifeWhat chance being able to get back in without a passport?

LpJtj9wSt8I

GreenKnight121

26th Oct 2014, 02:11

They'll just make a trip to their respective embassies in Jordan and claim to be tourists whose passports have been stolen in a local market, and ask for a replacement. All they'll need is a fingerprint match - easy in these computerized days.

Now the Embassy staff should note their names/ID numbers on the terrorist watch list and take them into custody - but we all know how often people on those lists have slipped past government officials who have the lists right in front of them.

Lima Juliet

26th Oct 2014, 07:59

Whenever I see these videos I can't help thinking of the film 'Four Lions'...

Four Lions by Christopher Morris - Official Trailer - YouTube

Oh, and by the way, its now a one-way ticket to IS for those that join apparently. If you want to leave they will kill you - how's that for a retention measure! :}

LJ