From 1960,Who is this pilot and is he still around!!

[oldpax]

http://i62.tinypic.com/bi3r02.jpg

[N2erk]

He's always looked like Elvis to me. ( I remember the ad well- RAF flying Review & Air Pictorial)

[Old-Duffer]

Within six months!!!!


This was clearly before the advent of training blocks, holding postings and all the other impediments thrown across the path to the RAF Flying Badge. Officer training at Kirton in Lindsay or South Cerney by 1960, of 12 weeks?? Ground School and then dual leading to a solo, lucky S**.


The spin looks good too. Flt Lt at 25 with full allowances, suggests that the guy has married and draws the full rate of MA .


A couple of years later, one of my long standing friends was in a follow up campaign entitled "Seven Days in the Life of ???????????". Fifty years later he is still not allowed to forget it!!


Old Duffer

[Vim_Fuego]

Interesting to see that the highest mandatory qualifications required are 'O' levels in maths and English!

[newt]

That's because they wanted us young in those days! The salary figures look good and did not change for years as I recall. First month came to £28 but they did feed and house us for free!:ok:

[airborne_artist]

I was born the year before this and in April 1978 I went to Dartmouth as an SL(P) Midshipmite.

I soloed in November, seven months later, but only in a Chipmunk at Roborough on Grading :ok:

[John Farley]

I'd finished my first tour by then - despite Duncan Sandys.

[A2QFI]

When I was a Flt Cdr at Halton there was an ill-advised campaign to recruit apprentices using the tag-line "Become an Aerocrat" quickly paraphrased to Aerocr*p! Re stumbling blocks to progress through the training machine there were some very nice "Holding Posts". One colleague of mine got 6 months as ADC to the Governor of the Turks and Caicos Islands, and another was given a Meteor conversion and 3 months target towing in Singapore!

[CharlieJuliet]

Managed just under 6 months - joined 16 Apr 63 JP solo 10 Oct 63. Nothing to do with me - just the system running smoothly with no stops. Not long after this there were extensive holding periods for all. At that time I took a few days over 3 years to a Lightning Sqn and so the timings in '60 were probably better as only 1 OCU needed.

[Tankertrashnav]

Interesting to see that the highest mandatory qualifications required are 'O' levels in maths and English!

If you took a look at 1960 O level Maths and English papers you might not be so surprised. Certainly O level maths would equip you with most of the mathematical skills required as a pilot or navigator, although I am sure those very few who got into test flying would need something more advanced.

I remember at nav school I regularly scored highest on our course in the frequent mental arithmetic tests and used to pull the leg of one on our course who was a maths graduate about this (I passed O level maths in 1964). He pointed out that that there was more to maths than arithmetic, but I used to say that mental arithmetic was a much more valuable skill to a nav than the ability to understand differential calculus.

Heres another one from the period. I know him well and his lack of A levels or a maths degree certainly didnt hold him back! Terrific pilot - good enough to be entrusted with the BBMF Lancaster for a tour!

http://www.vforcereunion.co.uk/images/RoyalAirForce-Aircrew-1963-4.jpg

[ACW418]

I fit the timescale of that advert although I thought I wrote to Wg Cdr M A D'Arcy not the Gp Capt. 6 months and 20 days from joining to first solo and that was in the terrible winter of 1962/3. More importantly 25 months from joining to being posted to my first Vulcan squadron.

This was at a time when the system worked because the RAF needed the aircrew. Holding postings were virtually unheard of!

ACW

[twentygrand]

Well it worked for me!
South Cerney 18 Jan 1960 - solo at Syerston 8 Jul 1960.

[Herod]

Six months and twenty days for me, and that included the better part of two month's holding. The education requirements are correct, and it was only two of the subjects at "A" level to qualify for Cranwell. By the time I turned twenty-one I'd done the JP course, a helicopter course, been on a squadron for a few weeks (they cut establishment, and the newbies were the cut), held on another squadron, type conversion and seven months overseas service with yet another squadron.

[John Farley]

Holding postings were virtually unheard of!

There was a bad period mid 57 for a while until things settled after Sandys' proclamation. My course after wings at Swinderby in June 57 were all sent home on indefinite leave. After six weeks they sent us to Valley for Vampire continuation training. After four months of that we dribbled off to OCUs. After our Hunter OCU finished in Jan 58, four of us were sent on a ground tour because we were direct entry and only Cranwell graduates were allowed to go to flying jobs.

A ground job after doing all that was necessary to pass a single seat Hunter OCU in those days was hard to accept. So after a few weeks of this, two of us went to Bently Priory one sports afternoon and posted the four of us back to Chivenor, which had 64 Hunters and no studes worth talking about. This worked fine for a while until the system caught up and we had the inevitable interview with the Station Commander. After some pretend (it didn't seem pretend to us at all) very serious comments about interfering with Her Majesty's posting process, Group Captain Pleasance said it was the best thing he had heard of since WWII and asked if we would all like to go to Hunter squadrons.

That man (a WWII commander) knew that the motivation of the troops in a military unit mattered and we were motivated.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Interesting to see that the highest mandatory qualifications required are 'O' levels in maths and English!

As they were for the FAA in 1982 when I joined (just five of them too). Allegedly the chop rate went through the roof when the Crabs went to graduates only, but I don't suppose that is easily proven.

[Background Noise]

Don't think the RAF ever went to graduate-only.

5 O-levels required when I joined but it appears to be 2 A-levels now.

[Whenurhappy]

A ground job after doing all that was necessary to pass a single seat Hunter OCU in those days was hard to accept. So after a few weeks of this, two of us went to Bently Priory one sports afternoon and posted the four of us back to Chivenor, which had 64 Hunters and no studes worth talking about. This worked fine for a while until the system caught up and we had the inevitable interview with the Station Commander. After some pretend (it didn't seem pretend to us at all) very serious comments about interfering with Her Majesty's posting process, Group Captain Pleasance said it was the best thing he had heard of since WWII and asked if we would all like to go to Hunter squadrons.

That man (a WWII commander) knew that the motivation of the troops in a military unit mattered and we were motivated.

What a great story. Shows bravado and initiaitive.

The only way to do that today would be to become some geeky cyber-hacker as postings (sorry, assignments these days) are all done electronically. Although I dare say some in Manning might be able to swing some choice assignments...

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

2 A levels now leaves you less well prepared than 5 'O'levels did then.

The RAF made no great use of its graduate aircrew. Mostly one just pointed out where the groundschool was wrong.

"If you're clever enough to spot the error in the question, you're clever enough to work out what answer the examiner wants, Fox" was an excellent put-down I received once for being a smart-arse.

[Background Noise]

Well it's still 5 O-levels (GCSEs) as well as the A-levels, and including English and Maths as before. Or do you mean that O-levels then were worth something, compared with now?

[NutherA2]

WIWAL (when I were a lad) the timetable was a little different.
Since holding postings didn’t feature, the training was fairly efficient:
First solo was on a Provost T1, the JP not yet being in service.
06 Sep 54 Inducted Cardington
10 Sep 54 ITS Kirton-in-Lindsey
07 Dec 54 3FTS Feltwell, first solo 31 Dec 54
24 Aug 55 8 FTS Swinderby, wings 09 May 56
27 May 56 233 OCU Pembrey first Hunter F1 flight 10 Jul 56 (my 20th birthday)
29 Aug 56 98 Sqn Jever
From catching the train to Cardington, time to;-
First solo almost 17 weeks
First Squadron not quite 2 years.
Sadly, Duncan Sandys spoiled it all on 27 Jul 57 and I suppose the next 30 months at Halton waiting to rejoin the flying RAF could count as a holding posting.

[Hipper]

Well, we still don't know who the fellow in the OP is.


He looks like Rick Nelson to me. He even sang about it:


Rick Nelson: Gypsy Pilot (Live) - YouTube


He probably had shorter hair then.

[Wander00]

WURH - I just love that story: I am still chuckling

[ExAscoteer]

As they were for the FAA in 1982 when I joined (just five of them too). Allegedly the chop rate went through the roof when the Crabs went to graduates only, but I don't suppose that is easily proven.


The RAF never went to 'gaduates only' for its aircrew. Furthermore the chop rate amongst graduates (or at least those who had been through the UAS system) was way lower than it was for DEs.

Indeed there were 11 of us on my BFTS cse, all of us UAS graduates. All of us passed the cse which was not only the short JP cse, but an experimentally shortened short JP cse. Of the 11, one withdraw from training at AFTS (and went on to become something in the City), the other 10 of us all received our wings.

[ExAscoteer]

"If you're clever enough to spot the error in the question, you're clever enough to work out what answer the examiner wants, Fox" was an excellent put-down I received once for being a smart-arse.

That sounds like a 'Whacky Wheeler' ism!

[nutnurse]

@ Vim Fuego :)

The five O-level entry was for a direct entry commission on the supplementary list for 16 years or to 38th birthday with terminal grant & pension, whichever was later, with opportunities to leave with a gratuity after five years (for some, not Hunter pilots though) clutching £750, eight years (£1,500) or 12 years (£3,000). Promotion was only to Sdn Ldr, with possibilities of selection for a permanent commission on the general list (possible promotion to the highest ranks), or a permanent commission on the supplementary list (possibly to Wg Cdr). Cadet entry to the general list needed 2 A-levels.

Much more important NCO aircrew such as yourself needed O-level Eng. Lang. and Maths only. ;)

[brakedwell]

I must have been lucky. Started at Kirton Lindsey Oct 1st 1955, still aged 17. First solo at High Ercall (Ternhill satellite) Provost OT492 March 2nd 1956 = 5 months and one day.
Everything ran smoothly until Duncan Sandys wielded his bloody axe and cancelled my Hunter course in November 1957.

[rlsbutler]

Bassingbourne OCU over the winter of 1961/62. I shared a billet with a flying officer doing the PR course. I think I have remembered his name and would venture it if someone really wanted to know.

He seemed to have been peculiarly blessed, having either 'O' levels or even possibly no 'O' levels at all. He had blagged a five year commission, which must always have seemed to the P staff to be a bad return on the training costs. On top of that he got a first tour on PR. And he outranked me.

He had bags of personality for sure. I think he could have expected a permanent commission soon enough, to justify the wild card the system had given him. I believe he spoiled this blessed progression by barging through some power cables in a fiord somewhere, although I do not how he did after that.

[Vim_Fuego]

Out of interest was there an OASC type experience to get through or was it a check of aforementioned 'O' levels, medical and flash of the old school tie before the de-baggings could commence?

[CharlieJuliet]

Interesting. In '63 only 5 O levels required which for me were 5 standard grade school certificates as I was in Nairobi. Went to Aden for medicals and arrived at Cerney in Apr 63. 5 standard grades seemed to be OK as I went on to ETPS and ended up on the staff. So academic qualifications were not the only requirement. In fact I recall Brawdy becoming known as the Graduate Exit Scheme due to the chop rate!

[brakedwell]

I went through the OASC at RAF Hornchurch in 1955 and seem to remember it lasted two or three days. Usual medical and aptitude tests followed by group leadership exercises on the last day. Daedelus House tests at Cranwell in 1954 followed a similar pattern, but I wasn't good enough at that time.

[Yellow Sun]

ExAscoteer

The RAF never went to 'gaduates only' for its aircrew. Furthermore the chop rate amongst graduates (or at least those who had been through the UAS system) was way lower than it was for DEs.


You are correct overall, however in the mid 70s there was considerable disquiet at HQTC regarding the comparative suspension rates at Cranwell vs Leeming following the introduction of the Objective System of Flying Training. The CFI at Cranwell fought our corner well and HQTC backed off. Once a few courses had progressed through Valley he was seen to be fully justified as it became apparent that the Cranwell GE product was 3 times more likely to be successful at the next stage of training than the students coming from Leeming at that time.

I never liked the phrase "Chop early, chop often" as it sounded rather harsh and we were after all there to teach and get people through training , not remove them. However with the benefit of hindsight early decisions were probably best for all concerned although some on the receiving end may not have felt it at the time.

YS

[26er]

As a national serviceman I reported to Padgate on 28Nov49 and did my first solo in a Prentice on 27Jun50. However this did entail a trip to Hornchurch for aircrew selection, a few days back at Padgate waiting for the results, a detachment for a week at Driffield (the smell of avtur from the Vampires), Christmas leave and then report to Wittering on 27Dec49 (No 1 ITS) until Easter when the whole outfit moved to Jurby, and finally to 6 FTS TernHill at the end of May. On 28 Dec I broke my right wrist and on 9Jan51 I flew my first Harvard famil with a plaster cast on it and a couple of weeks later my first solo on type. The cast stayed on for six weeks. The course finished the following May and after a weeks leave holding for a few days at Feltwell before off to Valley at the end of June for the Vampire (solo) and Meteor (dual) AFS then at the beginning of Oct to Chivenor for a Vampire OCU. On 28 Nov I became a civilian again, so they certainly packed a lot in in those two years. A few months later I rejoined the Service.


After a tour as a QFI I went to Pembrey , completed the OCU course, and was sent to 11 Gp, Uxbridge for an exercise, there being no postings in the offing. Like John Farley I took the opportunity to chat to the postings chap in his office who told me that 34 Sqn was about to reform at Tangmere. Would I like to go there? I remember getting a bollocking back at Pembrey for circumventing the usual channels but it all turned out well !

[Tankertrashnav]

Out of interest was there an OASC type experience to get through or was it a check of aforementioned 'O' levels, medical and flash of the old school tie before the de-baggings could commence?

Oh dear Vim-Fuego - you'll be suggesting we bought our commissions next!

Did my OASC at Biggin Hill. I did the usual thing with oil drums and planks trying to get my team across an imaginary ravine. I hadnt a clue how to do it (maybe it was impossible) but I figured if I looked as though I knew what I was doing and kept everyone busy for the allotted 10 minutes or so then I might convince the DS.

I got through anyway!

(btw doubt if anyone would have recognised the tie from my unremarkable north country grammar school!)

[thing]

I did the usual thing with oil drums and planks trying to get my team across an imaginary ravine. I hadnt a clue how to do it (maybe it was impossible) but I figured if I looked as though I knew what I was doing and kept everyone busy for the allotted 10 minutes or so then I might convince the DS.That was where I went wrong then. I saw the solution to mine more or less straight away and finished it in twenty minutes. (We were alloted thirty minutes as I remember) They weren't impressed because I hadn't shouted at anyone or gee'd them up. Didn't need to, I told them what to do and they did it, and I had a north country Grammar School accent and tie too...:)

[Audax]

Paul Dandecker?

[pontifex]

TTN

And he went to ETPS. But that was a mistake in the selection process: they thought he had a maths degree!

[BOAC]

Paul Dandecker? - he went through BFTS JP in 1966.

[Tankertrashnav]

Pontifex - I'm sure he would have walked a maths degree if he'd ever bothered to take one ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Another advert a couple of years later said you could become a Vulcan captain by 23! Too young for marriage allowance and a quarter but old enough to bomb Moscow.

I knew at least one 23 year old captain in 1964.

[airborne_artist]

I was led to believe that in the 60s it was just about possible for an FAA SL (P) to be CDQ before he made Sub Lt - the 2ic of RN EFTS in the late 70s was one, I was told.

20 and still a Middy and in the front seat - could it get better in the world of aviation? There could even have been a 19 y/o.

John Eacott may be able to expand/confirm this?

[Lordflasheart]

20 and still a Middy

He must have been passed over :E ..LFH

[Brian 48nav]

We certainly had a few 23 year old captains on the Herc' in the early 70s ( South Cerney men who had joined at 17 and a half to just 18 ), in fact Mike Arthur who had been a co on 48 in Changi was probably still only 22 when he started his captain course.

[brakedwell]

AA - Are you referring to the front seat of a chipmunk at an EFTS? :p

[airborne_artist]

Brakedwell - No, and I'm not talking about the alleged use of the deck of a carrier moored in the Sound by Chipmunks from Roborough either ;)

[Tankertrashnav]

In the overcrowded mess at Seletar I shared a room with a 23 year old Beverley captain. I was only 20 at the time so he seemed quite old to me!

[Pontius Navigator]

Most scary flight I had was with a very young pilot officer captain on an RNZAF Dakota. The A4 pilots out bound chose to drive back by road.

[John Eacott]

I was led to believe that in the 60s it was just about possible for an FAA SL (P) to be CDQ before he made Sub Lt - the 2ic of RN EFTS in the late 70s was one, I was told.

20 and still a Middy and in the front seat - could it get better in the world of aviation? There could even have been a 19 y/o.

John Eacott may be able to expand/confirm this?

Joining back in 1967 the system was beginning to slow down a bit: I guess one difference that isn't always apparent to current aircrew was that you went through Dartmouth as a Cadet, not gaining Midshipman or Acting Sub Lieutenant until moving on to flying training. If you were under 21 then a Midshipman rank for you, over 21 you were an A/S/Lt, regardless of capability. Since too many of our course passed out at Dartmouth (we were the last FW and HSP) there weren't enough slots in flying training and the youngest were sent off to holdover and rejoined with the subsequent lot to pass out from BRNC. Again, totally age related and regardless of exam results, etc.

So, if you joined at minimum age (17 1/2) and got out of BRNC 8 months later, sailed through flying training, front line would come about 2 years after joining. Expect a year front line before getting a Proficiency Certificate (as it was known) so just about three years from joining Dartmouth and just before turning 21 and still a Midshipman :ok:

But the system tended toward delays so with my 3-4 month holdover plus 3 months on 700S that added another six months to getting front line, back in June 1970 :cool: This was for two pilot ASW crews where a lot of second pilot button pushing was a part of the day to day grind.

That was my take as an ASW driver, but the Junglies had a shorter AFT/OFT timescale plus less emphasis on day/night deck operations, so they would have a better chance to be Midshipman in command a lot earlier. Fixed Wing, I'm not at all sure of their training timescale but certainly they were throwing aluminium death tubes at the deck a lot sooner than we ASW dual pilot crews were trusted to be in charge!

[Whenurhappy]

Most scary flight I had was with a very young pilot officer captain on an RNZAF Dakota. The A4 pilots out bound chose to drive back by road.

Certainly in the mid 1980s, it was not uncommon for 20 year old captains on the F-27 and the Andovers. At NATTS , at the ripe old age of 25, I was the oldest on the crew (excluding the Trapper/screen) on a Friendship overseas route trainer to Australia.

[CoffmanStarter]

That's because they wanted us young in those days!

So heres one for you then Newt :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_0896_zpsee6aedda.jpg

Image Credit : MOD RAF : Aviation Ancestry

[newt]

Thanks Coff! Not me in the picture but I did my first single seat Lightning flight in November 1970 in XM180 aged 21! But only just as I turned 22 a couple of days later! Declared Oerational six months later on my first Squadron in Germany!

As for the rest, that is history. Suffice to say not many went on to be a Gp Capt by the time they were 40!!!!!!:ok:

[teeteringhead]

Was involved at OASC very recently; hangar exercises still very much what they were - same routine but bigger "crash mats"!

Pour moi - joined 26 Feb 68 (after OASC at Biggin), first Chipmunk solo 19 Aug 68 (with the Navy - a long story!); first jet solo 22 Jan 69 (JP4 :eek: no Mk3 - part of same long story); first rotary solo 5 Nov 69 (Sioux), C Cat (Op equivalent) on first Sqn 28 Sep 70.

At which point the young Teeters was 21 and 3 months, and qualified P1 day/night on 3 types (JP, Whirlwind and Wessex) and P1 day only on another 2 (Chipmunk and Sioux), all with a grand total time of 402 hrs 35 mins!

And ye tell that to t'young folk of today ,,,,,,,, :ok:

[ExRAFRadar]

26er - great little story. Have a round of :D

[N2erk]

A man with guts??? We're British- would we actually say that??
Same ad in Air Pictorial Aug 62- but no such heading- just the piccie & screed. Much easier to see the registration # in Coff's version tho. :ok:
AL1: I take it back- the Air Pictorial picture is slightly different- 3 Frightenings, photo taken slightly earlier, the pilot is looking towards them- and the career description is quite different. Same salary though.

[CoffmanStarter]

Plenty more examples can be found here :ok:

Classic Aviation Ads: RAF Recruitment (http://www.aviationancestry.com/RAFRecruit/)

From 1918 to 1980 ... Some cracking stuff during the 60's and 70's ;)

Best ...

Coff.

[brakedwell]

Yours To Fly Hunter. That's the one that netted me in 1955. No wonder I was so pi**ed off when they scrubbed my Hunter Course and filled it with Indians after Duncan Sandys brought down his chopper :*

[nutnurse]

@N2erk

I dare say it meant someone who didn't honk his guts up when he was taught aeros. :D

[Herod]

I know it's only a helicopter, and single pilot, but I first operated as captain of a crew on 25th Aug '66, having joined the RAF on 7th Dec '64. I was still three months short of my twentieth birthday. I think I can even top teeters, being qualified on the same three types at twenty years and four months. Eee, we woz young lads.

[teeteringhead]

I think I can even top teeters Indeed you can Herod.

I doff my cap and tug my forelock to you. :ok:

Eee, we woz young lads One remembers driving the somewhat taciturn (then!) Son-and-heir to Uni a few years ago. In-car conversation thus:

S-a-H: You didn't go to Uni did you Dad?

Moi: No I didn't.

S-a-H: So what were you doing when you were 19?

Moi: Flying jets.

S-a-H: What! Big jets??

Moi: Nahhh. Little jets (Ok - it was only a JP) much more fun!

S-a-H: :eek::eek:

[nimbev]

I did my OASC at Hornchurch in 61/62. Had numerous enjoyable/interesting holding postings, one of which was as a guinea pig at OASC which, by then, had moved to Biggin Hill. The RAF trained selection staff for a number of other organisations including the RN. Part of their training was to conduct assessments hence our little team of guinea pigs. One got quite blase about the whole thing and the exercises were much more fun when it really didnt matter and you had done them a number of times anyway. The most amusing thing was going through the interviews again and again. I remember a WREN officer who always seemed to make her questions have some sort of sexual overtone! Fascinating!:eek:

[teeteringhead]

JENKINS you old druid rascal! Are you trying to imply that I was General List!

Heaven forefend Sir! Teeters was "gutter entry" and proud of it - only ever intended to do 8 or 12 and pocket the gratuity. So how come I am still wearing uniform .......? :ugh::ugh:

[teeteringhead]

Date very wrong for Dandeker (who was a creamie at Syerston when I was a stude) if it was 1960.

Retired List has Dandeker's dob as 15 Feb 46, which ties in with BOAC's post #37.

[BOAC]

....and far too good looking for Dan Decker:)

[Wander00]

Ah, the lovely gent TG - whom I understood to say he would never enter the Towers, which was, some say, why he never became CAS. Used to meet him at Wyton at Reg McK's supper parties.

[teeteringhead]

Ah, the lovely gent TG Indeed so. First met him when I did his rotary conversion before he took command of the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base.

Met him many times thereafter - an oustanding officer and gentleman. He was ACAS when I first served in MoD - I recall in my arrival interview he dismissed the (then) prevalent "the later you work the better you are" syndrome with the words: "If I'm not back in the flat in time for the Archers (1900) then something's very wrong!"

[oldpax]

I started the thread and thought I recognized him as a hunter pilot when I served on 8 squadron as an elect mech thought the name was blackwater or some name with black in it!!!

[brakedwell]

How about Blackadder?

[Exascot]

How about Blackadder?

Yes but he had a first class navigator :ok:

Must check my log books I was lucky with a fast track training in the late 70s. I was operational on my 1st Sqn as a Pilot Officer. Just after I arrived I went to a bash in the Sergeant's Mess. Wearing my rain coat I was introduced to the crusty old SWO. When I took it off and he saw the wings he couldn't believe it. Muttering about haven't seen that since WWII.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Exascot, I was one of 3 (there may have been more..) Plt Off pilots on 72 around 1978/9. One of us has gone on to do rather well - Andy Pulford.

[Wander00]

I arrived on the new 360 (RN/RAF) Sqn (but due to go to the Far east as a member of 361) at Watton in Oct 66 as a plt off - the only such lowly aircrew officer in Signals Command. So remarkable was this posting that the Sqn Cdr, dear Ron or Rod Rawlins, called me into his office to tell me the AOC - in C has asked to see my 5000 Series as he had never seen such documents for a first tourist before

[sycamore]

Jenks, seat pin `in`,and other seat not `covered`....
could it be J Bromhead..?creamie at Syerston later..

[N2erk]

Jenkins- I always noticed the sneer- that's what made me think he looked like Elvis.

[rlsbutler]

Not John Bromhead. I was on the same entry as him at the Towers. This chap has a fuller, darker, face.

If the figure really is the student as described, and a pilot officer, then he would belong to one of the other flying schools.

[Fareastdriver]

he looked like Elvis.

How do we know whether he was a student, or even in the RAF. He could well have been a professional model who was so because he had a resemblance to The King.

[goudie]

He may well have been Elvis himself, he's not dead you know. Nurse agrees with me, so it must be true:\

[Exascot]

Just checked log books. Joined 19/03/78. First jet solo (JP3) 27/10/78. Posted to 32 Sqn July 1980.

[GreenKnight121]

Elvis Presley returned to the United States from Friedberg[/URL], Germany on March 2, 1960, and was honorably discharged from the US Army with the rank of sergeant on March 5.

He spent the rest of 1960 and 1961 recording and performing in the US, and filming movies ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_Star"]Flaming Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedberg,_Hesse) (1960) and Wild in the Country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_in_the_Country) (1961)).

So he might have done a photo shoot or two in between his duties with the 3rd Armored Division in Germany.

[footlight]

Cannot recognise JP pilot - not Bromhead with whom I am in touch - but in response to replies, I can improve on Charlie Juliet's 3 years JP to Lightning. Jet Provost captain November 6 1964, solo Lightning December 22 1964 and that includes 6 weeks travel/leave Acklington to Coltishall.

Another claim: Bus to Cambridge 7 April 1957 - solo in Tiger Moth 5 days later.

No doubt others will have better claims - let's hear them.