Are HEMS crews prepared for Ebola - Spanish case

[chopper2004]

¿Estamos preparados para aeroevacuaciones HEMS en casos de ébola? (http://www.aviaciondigitalglobal.com/noticia.asp?NotId=23514&NotDesignId=4)

Roughly translates about a case of an Ibiza based INAER AB412 transporting a lass showing symptoms of Ebola and question of how crews will handle the disease.

Cheers

[SilsoeSid]

I wonder if they would be asking the same question if they carried a patient with AIDS/HIV or Hepatitis?

As long as they don't shag her, drink her breast milk, share or come in contact with any other of her bodily fluids they'll be ok. It's difficult enough as it is to wee out of an immersion suit, let alone attempt anything else!

I'd be more worried if she had a virus that can be passed by airborne transmission such as Anthrax, Chickenpox, Influenza, Measles, Smallpox and Tuberculosis.

Unless of course the Ebola virus starts to mutate :eek:
Aaaaachoo!

[SARWannabe]

Ebola isn't really a HEMS case, more a repatriation/transfer job - the HEMS medics I fly with wouldn't go near an Ebola patient without full body protective equipment, which they don't carry. There are organisations like HART (Hazardous Area Response Team) who have full protective gear not found on a typical HEMS aircraft who'd be called in if such a case were suspected.

As long as they don't shag her, drink her breast milk, share or come in contact with any other of her bodily fluids they'll be ok

Not quite that easy, sweat, saliva & mucus are all effective carriers of ebola and very hard to see, and are transferred directly by eye/mouth/nose contact. The virus can also live for days in bodily fluid outside the body, much longer than HIV outside the body. It would be completely impractical to disinfect the aircraft to the level required after carrying an ebola patient and take the aircraft out of service for too long.

[SilsoeSid]

That'll be covered in my 'with any other of her bodily fluids' then :rolleyes:

One thing I don't understand, instead of everyone else being in CRBN kit, making the whole scene look like something out of 'Close Encounters', why not just dress up the patient?

[misterbonkers]

Because you couldn't dress them without contact?!?

[air pig]

Misterbonkers:

Phoenix Air who did the fixed wing Ebola patient moves did just that, dressed the patient in a bio-hazard suit and had them walk onto the aircraft. Once dressed you just have to externally decontaminate the suit as you would when taking it off normally An NBC in effect used in reverse.

[SilsoeSid]

Because you couldn't dress them without contact?!?

Blimey, there was a time when people were afraid of touching those with HIV or leprosy etc. Unless of course ebola turns the victim sluglike :rolleyes:

[misterbonkers]

That's right SS. HIV and Leprosy are just like Ebola. Perhaps you'd like to volunteer your services in West Africa? I'm sure NPAS will happily foot the bill for your flights.

If a patient is well enough to dress themselves then is there really a need to fly them under HEMS? Of course transporting them by Air Ambulance is a different kettle of fish.

[Devil 49]

Putting the patient into a suit or a pod and delivering patient care in most HEMS aircraft wouldn't seem possible in the opinion of a completely non-medical pilot. Which is fine with me- I've had blood on the ceiling and seen the 'effective kill area' of unfortunately timed patient vomit. Rare events, yes: but they happened.

[SilsoeSid]

Mr Bonkers;
Perhaps you'd like to volunteer your services in West Africa?

If a patient is well enough to dress themselves then is there really a need to fly them under HEMS? Of course transporting them by Air Ambulance is a different kettle of fish.

Don't we just love the people that volunteer others to do jobs that they don't fancy or simply couldn't hack themselves.!

I'd have no problem with helping out if I could make a difference, but given the situation out there with noone having the need to send aircraft out there, just medical personnel, how would you see me being of benefit? Besides, I'm sure there are far more qualified people out there to give me advice on the risk than you behind your keyboard!

You say that if the patient was 'well enough to dress themselves'.... yet before you said 'there was a risk of contact with those that are dressing her' ... which side of this are you on?

Crikey, this lady only has the initial symptoms, which to be quite honest are similar to having a cold or tummy bug aren't they :rolleyes:
Bottom line Mr Bonkers, as paranoid as you may be about this case, I would be quite happy to fly her in order for her to get to the medical attention she needs.

Wouldn't you be the fool having refused to help this lady, only to find out that she didn't have the virus after all :ugh:

[Stallion85]

As long as they don't shag her, drink her breast milk, share or come in contact with any other of her bodily fluids they'll be ok. It's difficult enough as it is to wee out of an immersion suit, let alone attempt anything else!

I'd be more worried if she had a virus that can be passed by airborne transmission such as Anthrax, Chickenpox, Influenza, Measles, Smallpox and Tuberculosis.


Besides, I'm sure there are far more qualified people out there to give me advice on the risk than you behind your keyboard!


And your qualification is...?:suspect:

[misterbonkers]

Stallion - surely you can see that Silsoe is an expert in so many fields?

Silsoe - at least I wouldn't be a dead fool!

I'm not paranoid about Ebola but I do know that if someone is exhibiting symptoms of it then they are potentially contagious and it take very little transfer of fluid to get the virus which then rapidly multiplies inside you BEFORE some symptoms start to show. 70% of those contracting the virus die within a month...

Furthermore I haven't given you any advice. Advice would be something like 'I advise you to go and help in Africa and stop posting rubbish on PPRUNE'. But I have no aspiration to give you such advice. Afterall, where would PPRUNE be without you?

I think you are a little confused regarding the dressage comments as it refers to two scenarios discussed over several posts digressing from the initial one. Please feel free to work it out.

Hugs and kisses. MB

[SilsoeSid]

Stallion, welcome aboard the bandwagon.

My qualification is nothing medical, just wanting to help a fellow human being, which is why I said ... (if you'd be good enough to read my post that you quoted) ... 'I would rather take advice from those out there, than the advice from mister bonkers behind his keyboard' :ugh:



Mr B, please read my posts.:rolleyes:

You'll notice that I said "Wouldn't you be the fool having refused to help this lady, only to find out that she didn't have the virus after all". If you had read it you wouldn't have come back with, "at least I wouldn't be a dead fool! "

Of course you wouldn't, lol, because there wouldn't be anything to catch :ugh::ugh:

Kugs & hisses ;)
SS

[Stallion85]

SilsoeSid,

I am pretty sure the management will not leave the decision to (eventually) contaminate the a/c (which will take it out of operation for quite a while) to the medial personal on scene. And we don't start about the driver, he has no educated opinion in this (as we can see at ourselves here :E)

Saying that, tell me as a pilot the patient has ebola I would be "worried" considering that trained personal who (should) know exactly how to protect themselves managed to get infected!
And as much as I feel sorry for these people I don't want to bring this stuff home to my family nor would I want to put my crew or myself at this risk.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html?_r=0

[SilsoeSid]

Stallion, totally agree.

I like the article, in particular though, who produced it.


Reports of new Ebola cases surged in western Sierra Leone during the week ended Oct. 14. The authorities said that the movement of people from country’s interior to the Freetown area was driving the increase in the west.
.
.
By Jeremy Ashkenas, Larry Buchanan, Joe Burgess, Denise Grady, Josh Keller, K.K. Rebecca Lai, Patrick J. Lyons, Heather Murphy, Haeyoun Park, Sergio Peçanha and Karen Yourish.

Who are these people? experts? Doctors? Health Workers? …

Jeremy Ashkenas. Graphics department at The New York Times.
Larry Buchanan. Graphics/Multimedia Editor at The New York Times
Joe Burgess. Metro Desk / Politics Desk at The New York Times
Denise Grady. Science news department of The New York Times
Josh Keller. Graphics Editor at The New York Times
KK Rebecca Lai. Graphics Intern at The New York Times
Patrick J. Lyons. Senior news editor, International Desk, The New York Times.
Heather Tal Murphy. Senior Staff Editor, New York Times International Desk.
Haeyoun Park. Graphics Editor at The New York Times
Sergio Peçanha. Foreign graphics editor at The New York Times
Karen Yourish. Graphics editor at The New York Times


All in all, I prefer the non scare mongering stories though, such as;

"20 October 2014 -- WHO officially declares that Nigeria is now free of Ebola virus transmission. This is a spectacular success story that shows that Ebola can be contained. The story of how Nigeria ended what many believed to be potentially the most explosive Ebola outbreak imaginable is worth telling in detail."
WHO (http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/en/)


"A man standing without a protective suit near a US Ebola patient sent social media users into a panicked frenzy yesterday."
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78293000/jpg/_78293221_clipboard.jpg
Clipboard man (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-29652801)

The Clipboardman conversation is proof that the media is doing an "awful job" explaining Ebola, according to The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/16/6987711/the-media-awful-job-explaining-ebola-and-clipboardman-is-proof) website. Ebola is spread by direct contact with contaminated body fluids like blood, vomit, saliva and faeces.

[SilsoeSid]

Anyway, in answer to the original post, carefully :ooh:

Have a good weekend all :ok: