Chinook DFC Award

[MightyGem]

Just seen this on Rotorheads. Well deserved.:eek: :ok: :D
Queen gives RAF Chinook pilot DFC for Afghan heroism - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11170454/Queen-gives-RAF-Chinook-pilot-DFC-for-Afghan-heroism.html)
An RAF pilot whose helicopter was riddled with bullets and badly damaged as he dropped off troops in Afghanistan has been decorated by the Queen for his bravery returning to rescue them.
Flt Lt Charlie Lockyear, from Teignmouth, was presented with a Distinguished Flying Cross at Windsor Castle for his courage returning to the scene where his helicopter was shot up, so he could pick up troops left behind.
His Chinook helicopter was damaged and one of his crew wounded by intense Taliban fire as he came in to drop of his passengers during the mission in May 2013.
The fire was so heavy, he aborted the drop off and withdrew, but because the radio and intercom had been shot up, he was unaware some troops had already got off and were left behind in a firefight with the insurgents.
The 35-year-old made the decision to go back and get them.
Flt Lt Lockyear, of 18 (B) Squadron based at RAF Odiham in Hampshire, said: "People were getting shot, rounds were going off.
“I thought: 'This is not the place to stay'. We sorted out the aircraft, things quietened down a little bit, then we did an assessment.
"It was a remarkably easy decision to make because you know you've got a small group of guys stuck in a field and you know for a fact they are under contact (with the enemy).
"The GPS was one of the systems that had gone down as well as engine instruments, flight instruments, radios, the autopilot – and we had to find them.
"They were camouflaged and they weren't waving because they were still in a firefight but we found them."
During the first approach, flying shrapnel had left Master Aircrew Bob Sunderland wounded in the groin, but as they returned to the landing site, he was able to lay down suppressing fire with the helicopter’s machine gun. MACR Sunderland was awarded a Mention in Dispatches for his actions.
Once the troops had been picked up and despite the damage to the helicopter, including bullet damage to the rotor blades, Flt Lt Lockyear guided the aircraft back to Camp Bastion’s hospital, where the injured were treated.
Others awarded honours by the Queen included Dame Maggie Smith, the Oscar-winning actress.
Dame Maggie, who has an acclaimed career dating back to the early 1950s but who won renewed fame recently as the Countess of Grantham in Downton Abbey, was made a member of the Order of the Companions of Honour.
The Conservative MP Sir Bill Cash, was knighted for political service.
The long-standing Eurosceptic, who led backbench rebels against the Maastricht Treaty in the early 1990s, said: "Some people would say the clock has turned a very long way so I'm very pleased about that.
“There is unfinished business however, regarding the whole question of the integrationist programme of the rest of Europe. So we've got to deal with the whole question of restoring the right of British people to govern themselves and restore parliament to its rightful place."

[CoffmanStarter]

Well deserved indeed, likewise MACR Sunderland :D:D:D:D

[AnglianAV8R]

HUGE respect and what a team effort that had to be to achieve such an outcome.

Dare I ask, was it 'that' Chinook again ?

[Lima Juliet]

I do feel that Mr Sunderland may have been sold short with his MID award. If he was wounded and continued to fight and be key to the rescue then I woukd have expected a higher award for him.

Not knowing the full story, I might be being a bit harsh on the Honours & Awards system. But on the face of it MAcr Sunderland certainly met the 'personal rigour' requirement in my view as he could have sat it out with a hole in his groin!

Anyway, well done gents. :D:D:D:D

LJ

[Heathrow Harry]

I believe some of the boys at Odiham have a set of medals unrivaled since Bomber Command in 1945

[Tankertrashnav]

Nothing more to say except to add my heartiest congratulations to them both!

[Shack37]

A very well deserved DFC for Flt. Lt. Lockyear, well done sir. Do agree though that Mr. Sunderland merited something more than MiD.

[orca]

Sounds like a fabulous job done by two brave professionals. I would counsel against the urge to query whether or not an individual award was the most appropriate. No one is ever going to 'rack and stack' all MiDs, but if they were to do so we would probably find that some had been recognised in the same manner as the MACR for greater exploits and some for lesser. At the end of the day he has an award on his chest of which he can be justifiably proud and he, and only he, knows exactly what he did to get it.

BZ to both brave men.

[Lima Juliet]

Orca

I agree, but it does smack of the officer getting the higher award than the WO. I thought we had left this behind us after things like the Fairey Battle in 1940 where Pilot Fg Off Donald Garland and Navigator Sgt Tom Gray received the first air Victoria Crosses of WWII posthumously. The Air Gunner, LAC Roy Reynolds, received no recognition because it was not felt that he merited a VC.

I am not belittling the MID, but why did they differentiate between the Pilot and Load Master? In my limited view from the citation both had played an equal role in bringing off this spectacular save of life and one had even got wounded but continued at his post returning fire most heroicly in the face of enemy fire.

Maybe this is an unexpected consequence of taking away the DFM?

LJ

[KPax]

Very well done to the crew, who I assume had another pilot and crewman on board, or is the Chinook no longer a 4 man crew.

[Bob Viking]

I will begin by saying that I also believe the crewman's bravery may have warranted a higher award. However I wasn't there and it is not really my place to say.
For what it's worth I don't believe this is a case of rank prejudice. I realise that when the Captain of the aircraft makes a decision to return under fire everyone must go with him and could therefore all be adjudged to have displayed similar levels of bravery. What, in my opinion, sets the Captain aside is that should the outcome have been less successful, ie the loss of the aircraft, the blame will lie almost solely on his shoulders. That makes it a very brave decision in my book.
Whatever we think about the matter this crew, and every guy on the force, repeatedly display cojones of a scale far superior to what is required in my day job and so I shall metaphorically doff my cap in their general direction for a job well done. Yet again.
BV

[Mechta]

For what it's worth I don't believe this is a case of rank prejudice. I realise that when the Captain of the aircraft makes a decision to return under fire everyone must go with him and could therefore all be adjudged to have displayed similar levels of bravery. What, in my opinion, sets the Captain aside is that should the outcome have been less successful, ie the loss of the aircraft, the blame will lie almost solely on his shoulders. That makes it a very brave decision in my book.

So what you are saying is that the decision whether to court martial or award a medal to the aircraft captain is based upon the accuracy or otherwise of the enemy's shooting?

[Bob Viking]

I've already said what I think. How you choose to interpret that is up to you.
BV

[NutLoose]

Well done all round, as for the MID, one does not know the circumstances, so one cannot comment, odd others deem they can though.

[teeteringhead]

I believe some of the boys at Odiham have a set of medals unrivaled since Bomber Command in 1945 HH ISTR there is (or was) a triple DFC (ie DFC and 2 bars) at Odiham.

Maybe this is an unexpected consequence of taking away the DFM? LJ Surely a Master being of Warrant rank would have been a DFC and not DFM anyway??

[Sky Sports]

How times have changed!
When I was a loadie in NI in the early 90's, you were awarded a MID for coming under fire. Now, it seems, you have to get hit in the ball bag as well. :eek:

[Typhoon93]

A job well done!

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Sky Sports,

If they still awarded an MID for coming under fire then judging by the straw poll we conducted the other day, pretty much every SH crew that has operated in Afghanistan would have one.

The award of medals will always be somewhat relative to the conflict that we find ourselves in; I don't mean this as a slight to those with DFCs from modern day conflicts but go back 75 years and you'd probably find that their acts of bravery would not get the same recognition as in WW2 when we were losing crews left right and centre.

[Chugalug2]

Humbling, and in the traditions of the Service.

[Heathrow Harry]

"HH ISTR there is (or was) a triple DFC (ie DFC and 2 bars) at Odiham."

google lists 22 very brave men with a triple (all historic for obvious reasons) including Neville Duke, Paddy Finucane, Remy van Lierde, Tuck, Skalski & Warburton

That's what I call a Roll of Honour.......

[tucumseh]

Very well done. My very first boss in my first job was a DFC and bar. His first was something to do with getting a stricken aircraft home from Berlin while wounded. A very unassuming man and a gent.

[Tankertrashnav]

The award of medals will always be somewhat relative to the conflict that we find ourselves in; I don't mean this as a slight to those with DFCs from modern day conflicts but go back 75 years and you'd probably find that their acts of bravery would not get the same recognition as in WW2 when we were losing crews left right and centre

It may interest those following this thread to see the figures for WW2 awards. My source is British Gallantry Awards by Abbott & Tamplin.

DFC - 20,354, first bars 1,550, second bars 42*
DFM - 6,637, first bars 60, second bar 1

Equivalent army and navy awards are as follows

MC - 10,386, First bars 482, second bars 24
MM - 15,225, first bars 164, second bar 2

DSC - 4525, first bars 434, second bars 44, third bar 1
DSM - 7132, first bars 153, second bars 4, third bar 1

It can be seen that the DFC was in fact the most frequently awarded gallantry medal of WW2. Similar to A-P's remark, I also do not in any way wish to denigrate the WW2 awards, but it has to be admitted that the RAF of the time was not slow to recognise gallantry among its aircrew.

* I would assume that the Google source quoted by Heathrow Harry which lists 22 recipients of the second bar has probably only given a selection. I believe the figure of 42 I have quoted is likely to be correct as Abbott & Tamplin is generally accepted as "The Bible" in matters of gallantry medals

[ian16th]

TTN

Thanks for that.

Does your 'bible' also give the AFC's and AFM's that were awarded for 'an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying, though not in active operations against the enemy'?

Or are all of the AFC's and AFM's grouped together?

[Tankertrashnav]

No problem, Ian. Once again figures are for WW2

AFC - 2001 - first bars 26, second bar 1
AFM - 259 - no bars awarded

The AFM was always one of the scarcest gallantry medals, which in later years was sometimes awarded to SAR crewmen. Like the DFM it was also a very attractive medal, and I regret their passing, along with the DSM, DCM, and MM, although I understand the rationale for all ranks now receiving the same award

[Evalu8ter]

HH,
There is certainly a triple DFC Chinook mate, and a double DFC, a CGC/DFC (the highest individual gallantry award given to a RAF pilot since WW2) and at least one DFC/AFC....and I believe the last DFM went to a chinook ALM (who has an AFM too).

[NutLoose]

Sky Sports
How times have changed!
When I was a loadie in NI in the early 90's, you were awarded a MID for coming under fire. Now, it seems, you have to get hit in the ball bag as well.


Was that just an RAF thing or the Arny and RN too?, I never saw many Army ones

[Heathrow Harry]

Evalu8Ter

Thanks for confirming the story

just sad that things have reached a pass that they can't be recognised in public in case some nutcase takes a pop at them :sad::sad:

[Tankertrashnav]

Actually H-H the award of the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross to the RAF guy referred to in Evalu8ter's post is in the public domain, although I won't mention the man's name here because that is the PPRuNe convention with serving personnel. The London Gazette date is 9 September 2005 and a quick Google search of the named individual gives an account of the rescue operation in Sierra Leone for which the award was given. Similarly the name of the recipient of the DFC and two bars (DFC for Iraq, one bar each for Iraq and Afganistan) is also available to the public. However in the case of special forces you are correct that on occasions names of medal recipients have been suppressed to protect anonymity.

As far as I can tell there have been 25 DFCs awarded so far for Afghanistan, including the bar referred to above, and if I say I hope there won't be many more I hope I won't be misunderstood!

[airsound]

As a cold war warrior with a medal-free chest (despite 20 years’ service and a few thousand hours in my log book!), I find myself immensely proud when I read of extraordinary courage and coolness under fire like this. I’m so glad that, despite all the damage wreaked by successive governments, the Royal Air Force still has people of this towering stature. Many congratulations to the whole crew.

TTN, excuse my ignorance, but how does one get sight of the citations for awards like this? I’ve burrowed around in the Gazette, but I’ve given up… (LMF probably)

airsound

[minigundiplomat]

Both are great guys and both awards are well deserved.

The captain is normally awarded a medal on behalf of the crew - medals are very much an officer thing and to be honest, most crewman past and present don't really give a sh1t who gets what; the satisfaction of a job well done and getting the troops/casualty on board safely are all the reward that's needed.

[Tankertrashnav]

TTN, excuse my ignorance, but how does one get sight of the citations for awards like this? I’ve burrowed around in the Gazette, but I’ve given up… (LMF probably)

I shouldn't worry - I've had a go at searching Gazettes Online and found it to be one of the least user-friendly sites I've ever tried, and these days on the odd occasion I need to use it I get a mate to do it for me, and even he admits that its not straightforward.

In the case of the CGC award I just googled Conspicuous Gallantry Cross and got a list of recipients, only one of whom was RAF. His London Gazette date was given, and although no citation is shown in the LG it was easy to get a link to a general description of the operation in Sierra Leone.

I also learned that the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross was awarded to the Royal Irish Regiment and the Ulster Defence Regiment which is relevant to the earlier discussion on unit citations.

[alfred_the_great]

TTN - SF personnel have been named through-out HERRICK and TELIC. You just need to pay attention to the Level 2 and 3 awardees who don't have to take part in the media rigmarole on the day of the announcement. They have typically been PARA and RM, although there are a fair few County Regt and Support Arms in there as well.