Volotea Second Officer

[gene88]

Dear Everyone

I saw on Volotea website that they are recruiting for Second officer Position...and now come the questions about the job offer:
- how is the life of a second officer in the first or second year? I mean for the salary, the schedule....
- after 2 years of ops seems there will be expansion for the near future,so it could be valuable a 717 TR ...what do you think?

I want to start a new thread with useful info from people who are inside and involved in volotea ops and not the only replies from someone who heard of someone who has a friend tha....

[worldoffe]

Just for information: the program is self funded

[finswe]

Hi all,

I have applied to this program and would like to have some info as well. Thanks in advance!

[P40Warhawk]

Here some info.

Self Funded price of TR was last years 26K eu. Should be approx the same right now. You get Permanent Summer contract. Which means in few months you fly pretty much, but in winter at most 20 hours per month.

I had opportunity to start there last year, but I choose not to. Why?

- Because the pay is very bad. Till 1000 Hrs TT you earned last year 13 eu per block hour. NO BASIC Salary involved.
But now this year they changed that to 26 eu per block hour. Atleast a bit better.
After reaching 1000 Hrs TT you upgrade to FO. What the pay is from there I cannot tell.

Yes B717 is extremely rare, BUT it is a 50Ton Jet Aircraft Full Glass.
The bases are nice, but not very cheap so keep that in mind.

Good luck to the ones who apply.

[PeppyJeppy]

I applied for this too. Does the 9 month contract mean that you are grounded for 3 months a year or that you fly reduced hours in those 3 months?

[P40Warhawk]

No this is because then just less flying activity as far was informed to me.

Those 20 are just to keep you skilled. Not that you dont fly for few months.

[Joons31]

So how is the recruitment process? I applied already and haven't heard anything back in 2 weeks.

[finswe]

Same here. Applied about a week ago. Nothing yet but I guess they have lots of applicants (as always these days) so perhaps we should be patient.

[Chouan]

Would be great to know how is the assessment ? In case any of us get a call..

[Tomdw]

I also applied to these (I would say) swindlers late 2013 before I received their working conditions. This is what I got after and immediately declined the interview, just that I finished flight training for two years doesn't mean we should take jobs like this. Other times are coming, for sure. Just a quick summary of this programme; 16 euros per FLYINGhour until 500hrs (1000hrs I have heard they are introducing now), 26,5k for a type-rating for a Second Officer position on an airplane which is operated by a miniscule number of airlines in the world. 460euros non-refundable for just a selection. No guaranteed income during winter. just 400 hours per annum. I would say it is not hard to make decision, of course you have to make up your own mind, eventuelly after 10 years you will have a normal income on SPANISH level.


VOLOTEA CAREER
Your career in Volotea is based on meritocracy, where your time here matters, but more so your effort, attitude and contribution to achieve the company objectives, such as punctuality, cost efficiency and client service.

SHORT TERM
From Line Training, you will be hired as Second Officer with a salary of 13.5 Euros per block hour + 30 Euros per day of duty. The company model is to fly up to the maximum flying hours possible in summer –> June to September (close to 100 hours per pilot in August) and a reduced production in winter –> October to May. This means that during winter time the Second Officer will fly 10 to 20 monthly hours in approximately 3 to 7 days per month to keep him/her current (no flights will be programmed for new SOs in November, February and March) and 60 to 100 hours in 4 weeks per month during summer. For Second Officers, the flight time expected is approximately 400 hours at the first year after being released on line.

MEDIUM TERM
A Second Officer will be promoted to a First Officer level 2 position after completing 500 hours on the B717 and 1000 hours total time. The current salary for a new First Officer is 32€ per hour and 50€ per diem, raised to 40€ per hour when 2000 factorized (*) hours are reached.

The Senior First Officer salary is 50€ per hour and 50€ per diem.

LONG TERM
Most Second Officers entering VOLOTEA with 200 hours will become captains in approximate 5 years subject to performance.

UPGRADE REQUIREMENTS
As Second Officer you will be ready for an upgrade to First Officer level 2 upon reaching:
500 hrs. experience on type and
1000 hrs. total time.

As First Officer level 2 you will be ready for an upgrade to First Officer level 1 upon reaching:
2000 hrs. factorized (*) hours.

First Officers level 1 will be ready to upgrade to Senior First Officer when reaching 3000 hrs factorized and the upgrade to SFO evaluations passed; and then join an upgrade to Captain Programme after successfully passing the Command Upgrade Evaluations.
Selection process consists of:
Aviation Knowledge test
English test
Simulator check to be conducted at CAE Madrid

Those successfully completing the process go on to:
Psychometric test and final interview in Barcelona

The cost for the selection process is €460 -- (excluding taxes) and is non-refundable. Other related costs, e.g. travel, accommodation, etc. will be payable by the candidate.


TR Course details
This is a partially-sponsored program where the selected candidate will cover part of the costs related to the type qualification course:

TR Course content:
Operator conversion course: 2 weeks
Entry Level Training ELT B717 VPT: 1 week
Type rating course: 6 weeks
Base training: 6 TO/LDG
Line Training: minimum 125 hours

TR Course cost covered by the candidate: 26500 Euros
ELT B717 VPT in Barcelona
B717 type qualification course: ground school in Barcelona and simulator phase in Stockholm.

Price of the course covered by the candidate includes accommodation in shared double rooms and flight tickets from Barcelona to Stockholm.

Course is delivered entirely by VOLOTEA instructors

[BAe 146-100]

Also who is to say they will last? Pretty much a summer only operation on a business model where other airlines have failed in the past. 717 is probably one of the most useless jet type ratings to have in 2014, there is really nowhere to go with that rating if the worst happens. Its a legit p2f but still one to exercise with caution.

[P40Warhawk]

Only plus of the B717:
- JET in excess of 50T MTOW.
- Full EFIS.

Further an sad 5 years look out financially.
I also said no when I got ''opportunity'' to apply there and saw terms and conditions. It is really bad.

[UAV689]

Dont apply.

Crazy pie in sky salary, if people dont apply they cannot offer this!
Simples!! It is not like the market is flooded with qualified guys on the 717, they are taking the michael big time with this

[pilotchute]

Guys they will get hundreds of applicants. They will have no trouble filling seats. People are paying to fly to the sum of 50k Euros. This job pays you!

The terms may be crap but it's stiii a job. The question is,

"Do you want hours in your logbook or not?"

All the Middle East carriers recognise 717 time. It is far from a "useless" type rating.

[LastMinuteChanges]

I agree with Pilotchute. They've supposedly had around 1,500 CVs recently.

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

What a sad state of affairs.

How desperate must these poor people be to be paying to fly with a tin can third-rate operator like this.

Very sad. Better to get another job or change career altogether.

[gene88]

is there someone else recruiting beside ryan?...for people who have already the licence no

i know is not 737 or 320 but at least you start to log hours and once you get to fo the salary is getting better...

[BAe 146-100]

All the Middle East carriers recognise 717 time. It is far from a "useless" type rating.

Assuming you build enough hours on your 717 and the airline lasts while you fly 400 hours a year....

[pilotchute]

400 a year? I don't think they advertised for management pilots.

[BAe 146-100]

For Second Officers, the flight time expected is approximately 400 hours at the first year after being released on line.

Look above at Tomdw post.

[OhNoCB]

The 717 might be a 'recognised' type (of course it is), but that doesn't make it a useful type rating. It might make hours on it useful hours, or useful experience, but as a type rating to hold it is not going to give you the same opportunities as others.

is there someone else recruiting beside ryan?...for people who have already the licence no

i know is not 737 or 320 but at least you start to log hours and once you get to fo the salary is getting better...

Yes there are others recruiting, just not 24/7 so you have to keep an eye out for the jobs.

The "at least I get experience and then earn money" point is not a good one.

The problem is that the more people who think this and accept bad terms are just damaging terms for everyone INCLUDING themselves. The problem comes whenever Volotea (or whoever) see that they have 1500+ applications from people who will accept to be so poorly paid, and then they will lower the pay further until they get to the point where they are paying so little that they are getting less applications but still enough to fill the seats. They will start paying the FOs the same as the SOs now because they accepted it until this point and then pay the SOs less, and of course you can't just say you don't like and leave because you might not have another job lined up and you have bills to pay.

Everytime people accept rubbish terms, they are basically showing these operators that there are plenty of people who will accept to get paid little or nothing, and it means that eventually when you have your hours and think you have done your time and can now get a "proper" paying job, they will all be paying less.

[antes56]

The real problem is that the demand is less than the offer, so the pay is going to bottom...

There is a no real solution nowadays to the problem,besides closing 95% of the flight school, and managing all the future pilots with 4/5 flight schools so to create a Balance...

What should i do with this 70k euro investment?? Every day i am looking for a possible job, sending thousands of cv....please tell me.

No instructor job, no GA job, no airline job....

This opportunity could not be the best, but at least is it an opportunity.


Is here someone really working for volotea who could tell us what is really like?

[OhNoCB]

GA and Airline jobs come with luck, contacts and time.

Instructing, I would have thought you could find a job instructing at least PPL level. Certainly in the UK there are a fair few opportunities to do this at the minute and the UK is probably one of the more "fATPL dense" countries.

[pilotchute]

A frozen CPL is not an investment it is a gamble. Most people don't win.

CB, are you saying that the only decent jobs are one that involve flying a 737 or a A320? Your saying that you shouldn't even apply unless its for a 737 or A320 position?

[finalcheck]

After sending in the application documents, did you reveice one of the usual automated replies?

Me not, that's why I am asking. Hoping there was no problem with mail delivery.

[finswe]

finalcheck, Yes I received an automated reply almost immediately after sending the online application.

[Joons31]

Yes, direct after the application I got a confirmation mail.

[finalcheck]

Thanks guys, will immediately try again.

[federico100mt]

Quote Antes56
The real problem is that the demand is less than the offer, so the pay is going to bottom...

There is a no real solution nowadays to the problem,besides closing 95% of the flight school, and managing all the future pilots with 4/5 flight schools so to create a Balance...

What should i do with this 70k euro investment?? Every day i am looking for a possible job, sending thousands of cv....please tell me.

No instructor job, no GA job, no airline job....

This opportunity could not be the best, but at least is it an opportunity.

The solution exists, but the EASA and other authorities unfortunately have not the power to apply it for many reasons. It'is so simple to act as all "OTHER PROFESSIONS" do. Such us doctors, lawyers etc.. You can study Medicine but not be able to work and sign as a Doctor, you can study Law or Jurisprudence but not be allowed to be a Lawyer. Why? because it is obvious and pretty good regulated. Someone (group of persons) have decided that those professions require a certain amount of seniority, the employment situation and projections are limited and because those are professions where a certain amount of KNOWLEDGE is required (roughly 8/10 year of superior studies if you are in the standard). Be ATPL Frozen Pilot is much simpler (for me was), expensive (was too), couple of years or less end you are qualified, dumped in the pilot arena, without any direction to follow, legislation job regulation and path to grow up your professional evolution. This CATASTROPHIC situation has been created just for a lack of legislation (and of course money interests).
Lately, I use to read BALPA articles, I think they are in the good direction, I hope they will have the channels to influence the EASA and other authorities.

Anyway in this case me too I applied for the VOLOTEA second officers. Even if they apply very low pays and bad conditions it still difficult to participate to an assessment!

So do not give up colleagues, I am just sharing with you that for me , and as many other, it is not easy at all!

ciao

[OhNoCB]

CB, are you saying that the only decent jobs are one that involve flying a 737 or a A320? Your saying that you shouldn't even apply unless its for a 737 or A320 position?

Of course not!

You should apply for any properly paying job, no matter what the aircraft. My point was that applying for a job with very bad terms and pay, with the mindset of gaining experience is not a good thing to do because of how it effects future job pay. It is even WORSE whenever the idea of getting experience and moving on itself is partially flawed due to the aircraft type.

Basically, I don't think anyone should get involved with these schemes that are trying their best to drive terms and conditions into the ground. However if you are looking at it from a selfish point of view and are going to do it anyway, you would be better off plunging your money into something that is more likely to present opportunities in the future, by which I mean a more common type.

[gene88]

the real question is: do you trust this company? i mean do you think could last for years and grows and expands or not?
there are rumors about a change in fleet in the next years if they will grow fast...

so it s worth an investment with them? that s the point...besides the 717 fact

[pilotchute]

CB,

From another thread I noticed the rating is half paid for by the company and the rest is deducted at 500 Euro per month for 2 years. As a cadet for the first year you will take home a bit over 1000 Euro a month. That is crap but you should make FO within the first 12-14 months then you go to 3000 Euro minus the 500 for the second year. Whilst that isn't great I would take that over Ryan any day.

It isn't the worst deal out there.

[gene88]

The real question is: do you trust the airline? do you think that will last long?

There are rumors that there will be a change of fleet in the next 4/5 years if they will continue to grow...

[marcoBCN]

A friend of mine has been called for the interview.. monday in Barcelona.. Good luck evrybody applied..

[thkib]

marcoBCN

If you dont mind sharing, what is the TT, Training Background and age, of your friend?

[marcoBCN]

he's 22 yo, integrated course, level 6.. that's everything i know :ok:

[KAISERSOZE]

"Rating is paid 50% by the companie, 500 per month"

This is not what we've seen on the actual terms n conditions.
It says you pay 26500. Period...
That's a big difference !

[aloa326]

The application window is now closed for Second and First Officer, as stated some posts ago they are starting now CV screening and calling people.

The T&C are incredibly low, but jet hours still valuable in this market.

Being called for an interview is still ok, after a job offer there is always the possibility to decline.....

[OhNoCB]

Yes except you are already out nearly 500 euros just for the privilege of being interviewed, plus whatever travel / hotac costs you incur.

[pilotchute]

With EZY charging £105,000 for an MPL this seems like not a bad deal!

[aloa326]

OhNoCB

I know what you mean, and i agree, but this is the raw reality.

Those days that all of us are looking for are gone...long gone in 90's.
A pilot was considered a pilot and not some sort of cash machine or simple robot.
At the exact moment we chosed to become a pilot, we agree unvoluntary with this system, so for the next 10 years we will not able to change the system!
:ugh:

[OhNoCB]

I know where you are coming from. I used to hate coming to this website when I was trying because the doom and gloom was depressing, and I don't wish to be another doom monger. I appreciate that chances are sparse and luck plays a unfairly large part.

At the same time though, whilst everyone needs to recognise that you can't expect to be overwhelmed by job opportunities after you finish a lovely sponsored training scheme, it important not to completely sell yourself short. Yes it's likely that you will accept a job that isn't as good as what people were taking in the 90s, but at the same time - don't be a catalyst. This Volotea deal to me sounds truly awful, paying probably a thousands euros all in to be interviewed, then another nearly 30k on top of that all to be paid very little to fly (not very much) a type that is of course a jet, but is very unlikely to be a useful TYPE (not talking experience here) when it comes to seeking further opportunities.

At the exact moment we chosed to become a pilot, we agree unvoluntary with this system, so for the next 10 years we will not able to change the system!

The sad thing about this is that it's only conditionally true. If every looked at schemes like this (and plenty others) and said no that's rubbish I won't apply for it, then things would change. Unfortunately people are always willing to throw more money at this, get themselves further into debt (or their parents) just to 'get experience'.

[gene88]

could be interesting listen someone who is actually inside and working as a pilot..

[finalcheck]

Did anybody already receive an assesessement invitation / follow-up email?

[Cedarjet80]

Do you know how does a second officer log the hours? And what are the exact duties of a second officer in V7? I guess these change from a company to another, right?

[aloa326]

They closed the application window last Thursday (17th), so usually, right now they are reviewing all the applications and after that call the selected people. I am assuming that, according the contract they proposed, the new pilots should be ready by March/April so the interview will be start soon.

i can't figure out how many pilots they need, but the interview process could last until january/february.

Happy to hear from someone already inside.


PS. few time ago, the first part of selection was held by CAE, now as i understood, all the selection will be done in headquarter in BCN, for this i even don't know if the old selection fee 460 euros has to be paid or not.......

[finalcheck]

Do you know how does a second officer log the hours? And what are the exact duties of a second officer in V7? I guess these change from a company to another, right?


No difference in work between s/o and f/o, just in seniority and pay...

[aloa326]

In my company is exactly like this, for logging hours no difference, obviously the salary is different.

[INeedTheFull90]

So €500 for an assessment? For a seasonal airline that is a very clever way of getting revenue in the lean winter months.

Also, if this company were to downsize or vanish, you're out of a job with a worthless rating. Yes the MEB3 may count the hours toward their requirements but if you are out of a job you're not flying, you're loosing currency and there's very few airlines flying the 717 for you to move to.

Airlines plan recruitment well in advance. Chances are jobs 6-12 months down the line are being recruited for. If the worst were to happen you're out of a job and before you've had a chance to apply your already 6-12 months without currency and the airlines don't like this.

[Cedarjet80]

Any feedback from this week's exams? I knew that few people were called to sit theirs earlier this week.

[aloa326]

Cedarjet out of curiosity, your experience?

mine more 600 hrs TT on E120 around 360.

[Aleboni]

I haven't heard anything....i think that they re calling people Who know someone inside like alaways...i don t think there are many positions.

[gene88]

still looking for someone who have attended the assesment....

[aloa326]

few seats for tons of CV...you don't need a hint but a miracle to be called from Volotea.

[fade to grey]

You'd have to be criminally insane to want this type rating and pay for it.

This company is just sheer rubbish. I was called a couple of years back for DEc , where you don't have to pay they take it out your salary, but you have to commit to three years of their summer, which is only about two months long...

Beyond last resort

[AlphaK]

Hi guys,

I came up late, when I wanted to apply for the s/o program it was already closed!
Any news about volotea selection?
Does anyone know if they're going to open another application process soon?

Thanks.

[P40Warhawk]

Couldnt describe it better then that Fade.

Seriously. It is freakin ridiculous to jump in that SO position. It is seriously worse then slavery. You get paid ****. The fact that they want like 450 eu for showing up to assessment. WTF. Now that is easy money. I really disrespect these kind of companies.

As I told before. I also had the invitation to come to assessment in 2013. I said NO when I heard what they paid and what I had to pay to work there. You can really not live from it.

INSANE. DONT take such underpaid jobs.

[LastMinuteChanges]

Any news from the VOE hopefuls?

[gene88]

Nothing so far....probably they have enough second officer already?

[Aftrsunset]

A friend of mine got the mail yesterday that he got accepted. Guess that they are finished hiring by now

[Kelly Hopper]

I see they are looking for DEC now? Any clue as to the T's & C's, working schedule, salary etc? Any heads up appreciated. Ta.

[rasac]

What is the exact role of second officer in medium haul flight with a 2 flight crew members aircraft?

[Primary Governor]

As far as I know, with companies like this, you act as a FO. They call you a SO so they can pay you nada.

[marcoBCN]

Someone has been invited to the assesment?

[Mintraman]

What's the deal regarding TR cost and roster?
What do they mean with per diem, is it duty pay?

[worldoffe]

yea, what about the TR? Is it bonded or necessary to be paid in full by the applicant before the course starts?

[marcoBCN]

has to be paid:}

[worldoffe]

So 27000€ to be paid upfront the TR course?

[Rein20]

Anybody already been at the interview in Barcelona? Info?

[FlightPlanned]

I know from someone people is already having interviews and assessments in the 737, but also someone told me they will start calling from day 14-16 Nov.
I'm not sure about this information though.
One thing is for sure, the people which is having interviews now are the people with the "special connections"
I hope I get called too.