Blackpool Airport

[flyalotbob]

Blackpool Airport put up for sale by owners - BBC News (http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-28979929)

http://fleetwoodtoday.co.uk/news/business/local-business/blackpool-airport-sell-off-bid-sparks-new-route-hopes-1-6812241

[SpannerInTheWerks]

I know of one potential buyer - RM!!!

[piperboy84]

Bet they'll build hooses or ****ey hotels on the site.

[west lakes]

Bet they'll build hooses or ****ey hotels on the site.

That was the often repeated comment about BB, but hey they didn't

[EGNH Flyer]

I believe the 10 year lease expired in July, last sold for £13,000,000 in 2004.

[PENNINE BOY]

Not surprised, it has been going down hill for a few years, especially for GA.

[SWBKCB]

That was the often repeated comment about BB, but hey they didn't

Or haven't yet - it appears that it is the airport operating company which is up for sale with BB retaining ownership of the land.

[fatmanmedia]

if the operating company is up for sale without the actual land being part of the deal, then what is the point.

if i was to buy a airport i would want the land not just the operating company.

Very bad deal.

Fats

[newaviator]

probably the actual operating company isn't as cost efficient or adequately structured

[belowradar]

Really bad experiences at Blackpool
I actually said to airport management last year that they
would not survive with their bad attitude and lack of customer focus

Brilliant News !!! Hope the finance lady with clipboard gets the chop

[maxred]

I believe the 10 year lease expired in July, last sold for £13,000,000 in 2004.

Worth now, about 1.2m, with a following wind.

Give it to the Scottish Government for a pound, then they can own two loss makers with a value of £2.00.

Seriously it is a dreadful place. I wonder where they put all the, £10.00, Development Fund payments they extorted out of every passenger?

Mmmmmm, the lending bank toxic balance sheet no doubt:sad:

[AdamFrisch]

Wouldn't it be nice, just for once in the history of UK aviation, if someone could buy this who isn't a:

Developer looking to turn it into a Barratt's abomination.
Big airport hubris management type/company.
Local council that think GA is only for rich CEO's that golf.
PPR busybody who is full of self importance.

No, a private owner that's either an active GA member or user. Someone who could build a nice, welcoming airport where businesses and aviators thrive side by side. Someone who gets it.

Just for once.

[piperboy84]

I visited Blackpool airport for the first time several months back, It was also the first time I,d flown IFR (very briefly for a let down thru cloud for landing). I thought it was a real nice place with good facilities and the cab fare into the town center was cheap. Granted, a walk along the waterfront felt like I,d stumbled into a casting call for Big Fat Gypsy Wedding with most folks having more tattoos than teeth and my fish supper was cold in the middle, but all in all it was a great flying visit.

[flyalotbob]

Blackpool Airport closure shock - Blackpool Gazette (http://blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/local/blackpool-airport-closure-shock-1-6867209)

[AirForceNone]

From the airports website:



On 28 August 2014, we announced our intention to find a buyer for the airport operating company. The airport operations have been making a loss for a number of years and we are currently exploring a number of options in an attempt to secure the future of the airport.
We regretfully confirm that if no agreement can be reached before 7 October 2014 which ensures the viability of its operations, then it is likely that the airport operations will close. In this event, we expect that the last commercial flights will take place on Wednesday 15 October 2014.
We apologise for the uncertainty this will cause over the coming weeks and we recommend that any affected passengers contact their airline to confirm travel arrangements:


Jet2.com on 0333 300 0042
Stobart Air on 0871 718 5000
Citywing on 0871 200 0440





AFN

[Treadstone1]

I wonder what will happen to the GA operators.....ANT, Westair and the likes....

[Mikeod]

Not good at all. All planned by Balfour Beatty. Complete Ba$tards couldnt give a sh.t about people's lives etc. Drive em away close it down and build on it in a few years

[INeedTheFull90]

Let's not sell it to the Scottish. How many livelihoods did the Scottish destroy when they close MSE? They're quick to take English jobs and quicker to make a pound and keep it all for themselves. I for one will be protesting if the Scottish are allowed to deprive England of another runway, when many of their airports are state run and funded. And we all know where that money comes from!

[soay]

The statement from Balfour Beatty just seems to apply to commercial operations, so it could remain open for GA. By reducing the associated staffing costs of CAT, GA may keep it viable.

[piperboy84]

Let's not sell it to the Scottish. How many livelihoods did the Scottish destroy when they close MSE? They're quick to take English jobs and quicker to make a pound and keep it all for themselves. I for one will be protesting if the Scottish are allowed to deprive England of another runway, when many of their airports are state run and funded. And we all know where that money comes from!

May prove to be a good buy for a Scotsman, what with Cameron promising the Scottish pound will be worth two English if we voted No.

[xrayalpha]

INTF90

Slight logic fault .... If all the Scottish airports are only open because they are state funded, then you are saying that without state funding they would all be closed.

So isn't that the Scots keeping airports open?

PS. What or where is MST? I presume Manston. Anne Gloag may be Scottish but not as Scottish as a government that bought _ and kept open _ that other Infratil airpoirtt, Prestwick.

[maxred]

Ok, time for a fact input. All these project airports, Manston, Blackpool, East Midlands, Liverpool, Leeds, Doncaster, etc etc, were bought and developed on the Lo Co model, and the ultra cheap, all you can buy, all you can eat, holiday of the packaged kind.

Now, with ever deepening austerity cuts, the fact that the assets are technically worthless, and a Tory government, that is widening these cuts, then some't has to give. And guess what, it is the holiday.

Sooner or later, all of these business models will go. Why? They are unsustainable, particularly with a bust bank as your funder, please take your pick of a choice of many. The private operators simply cannot go on losing money.

It is, INTF 90, not a Scottish problem. My only current regret, is that 2 million, sic allegedly, bought into the status quo deal. Time will tell what an inglorious error that was. War, what war? Vow, what vow?

[BISH-BASH-BOSH]

What will happen to the GA operators, !! Just the same as happened at Manston --- Off you trot lads, thanks for your custom, and we really do not give a toss if your business fails!!!

[maxred]

3B. yep, and it is crap, and it is not good at all, but it is reality. There are centres of excellence in GA - Dunkeswell, Compton Abbas, Sherburn, etc, but they are GA centres, not Council/Big Business/Lets make a few quid operators, running larger than life and reality, real estate airports.

We have the bizarre set up in Scotland where a troupe of Private Operators have failed miserably with Prestwick. Even paying Ryanair to base a few 737's there, still could not make it work. Result, in a politically motivated move, the Scottish Government buy it for £1.00. The fact that it will require a massive subsidy to keep it running, is frankly financial nonsense. Root cause - no people, no customers, no business. The odd bit of freight, but that can easily be moved to Glasgow, or Edinburgh. Even Ryanair look like a lost cause, with routes opening at Glasgow and EDI.

Nope, the system is quite broken, and I do not see it being fixed any-time soon. Perhaps a last minute white knight will step up for Blackpool, but they better have lots of free cash...

[darkroomsource]

What we as a flying community need to do is not bemoan the loss of another airport, but figure out how to make GA airports profitable.

(if possible before the deadline for this one, or before the council approves the building of hotels or whatever is planned)

If people are willing to drive to "the big city" to take their flights, there must be a reason.

If the operator isn't making a profit, there must be a reason (and yes, it's possible that they're complete idiots and wasting money, but it seems hard to accept that so many airports have the same problems and it's all because of idiots).

If pilots have stopped flying to the airport, there must be a reason.

There must be some profitable airports on this island. What do they do differently? What is the formula that works to make an airport profitable and necessary to the local economy?

[Jan Olieslagers]

I've said so before and I'll keep on saying: G/A will never bring in enough fees to operate an aerodrome commercially, with only professional staff. Not in a month of Mondays!

Either part of the cost is borne by local authorities, as is the case for a good many fields in France ("aérodrome municipal" they call it, and it might be comparable to what they do in the US), or you have the major part of work done by volunteers / club members - and that is how many fields work here in BE.

[Treadstone1]

Barton will be next, You watch, Peel are just as bad.:ugh:

[jayteeto]

No it won't be, Peel have big plans for the whole area. The rail link is going in soon and the airfield is being upgraded not run down. All my best guess of course. Unlike Bpl, which has been subject to cost cutting for years. The big court case with Jet2, firemen being told to be baggage handlers and staff levels being cut to minimums everywhere. The writing has been on the wall for years.
GA costs at Bpl have been ridiculous as well, I was quoted prices that would make your ears bleed compared to smaller fields.

[Solar]

Present day security is yet anther nail in the coffin for the average GA pilot not to mention the "assistance" we get from EASA!!!!

[A and C]

Land..........

Leave airport for business meeting........

Return and pay landing fees & Ask for fuel ...........

Have to taxi to the other side of airfield to uplift fuel.........

After 20 min wait get fuel, but can't pay at pumps.........

Taxi back to other side of airfield to pay..... Another half hour taken with this !

Take off for for home as I have missed the next business appointment due to the faffing about.........

Conclusion................ Blackpool is run for the staff not the customers ......

That's why the staff will soon be out of work.......... They have actively discouraged my custom and no doubt others feel the same.

[IB4138]

It's the airport's operational management, not the staff you should blame.

[gasax]

The majority of regional airports have very dysfunctional processes for light aircraft.

Who is to blame? Well all the employees and even us - I've complained about the arrangement in some places the answers are nearly uniformly in the 'jobsworth' category, lacking any sort of responsibility or even an undertaking to look at things. That might be done to management, but the employees rarely see "service" as one of their responsibilities which tells you why these businesses struggle.

If you were buying the airport management company - would you welcome onboard the 'team' that managed it into insolvency?

[justmaybe]

If this is a strategic change of direction for Balfour Beatty, just wonder what the future holds for other aviation asset/airfields held by the Group?

[jayteeto]

Sadly, any regular user of the security 'system' at bpl will struggle to be sympathetic. Those who know what I mean just know, those who don't would never believe the stories if we told you. That was often down to personalities who ensured people vowed never to come back

[Treadstone1]

Latest Rumour..Eddie Stobart is putting in a bid ASAP...

[piperboy84]

Land..........

Leave airport for business meeting........

Return and pay landing fees & Ask for fuel ...........

Have to taxi to the other side of airfield to uplift fuel.........

After 20 min wait get fuel, but can't pay at pumps.........

Taxi back to other side of airfield to pay..... Another half hour taken with this !

Take off for for home as I have missed the next business appointment due to the faffing about.........

Conclusion................ Blackpool is run for the staff not the customers ......

That's why the staff will soon be out of work.......... They have actively discouraged my custom and no doubt others feel the same

I was in a few weeks ago, and taxied over to the pump, filled up and paid right there in the wee builders buchtie next to the pump. The young guy that pumped the fuel was a real flying enthusiast and although i think it was his first time running a credit card for fuel he tried a few times then finally got how to enter the info into the computer and i was good to go, no problem

[A and C]

I'm pleased that the fuel faff has been fixed however I don't seem to be alone in having problems with the so called system !

[flyalotbob]

Westair, Which is one of the main flying schools at Blackpool have today put this on social media. Good news at least for now.

"On 16th October the Airport may close as a category 7 airport. This will mean that schedule flights will not be able to operate out of Blackpool. After this date the airport will remain open but at a reduced category. We are not expecting this to affect Westair in a significant way. We will keep you updated with more news and we are working with the airport operators to keep any disruption to a minimum."

[AirForceNone]

This one is from Pool Aviation/Hangar 3:

Statement re possible closure at Blackpool Airport

Re: Errigal Operation Based at Blackpool

We are writing this letter to you as a loyal customer of Pool, following a presentation that we have attended at Blackpool Airport at 1.30pm today. This was hosted by Stewart Orrell, MD of the Infrastructure Division of Balfour Beatty, the owner of Blackpool Airport.

You may have noticed that the Balfour Beatty Group has been having problems, including its third CEO in just over a year and a fourth profits warning of £75m this morning. As mentioned, the airport is owned by the Infrastructure part of Balfour Beatty (its most valuable division). However, the Airport still loses over £2m a year. Balfour’s have gone out to find a purchaser for the operating business and that process has been unsuccessful.

On 16 October the Airport may close as a Category 7 airport meaning no possibly no more Jet2 flights. The airport staff will be made redundant that day with the airport remaining open from the next day at a reduced level of category. We are told, and believe Balfour Beatty, that within weeks it will be back up and running at an operational level to support Pool Aviation and Bond (the helicopter & Irish Sea rigs company).

Moving on, our understanding is one buyer has progressed talks with Balfour Beatty and the sale is likely to conclude within the next two weeks. The buyer currently operates other airports.

In short, and with all the knowledge available, Pool will continue in the medium and long term to operate out of Blackpool but will, possibly, have a hiccough in October and may have to operate from Manchester, Liverpool or Warton for a short period.

Many thanks for your loyal support and apologies for any short term disruption but, as ever, we will endeavour to reduce the impact upon your trip in every way possible.

Pool Aviation NW Ltd.

AFN

[PURPLE PITOT]

Does a farm strip count as "other airports"?

[Hadley Rille]

Can anyone explain the relationship between the ATZ and the airport closing to commercial traffic?
I'm wondering how long the ATZ stays in place and will the airspace eventually revert to class G? Does it depend on runway length and remain in place for GA?

[TCAS FAN]

Hadley Rille

Provided that the aerodrome remains licensed and the length of the longest runway stays the same the current 2.5 NM radius ATZ remains in place.

If the aerodrome was to de-license, it could keep its ATZ if either ATC or AFIS is provided. However if the main runway length is reduced to 1850 metres or less, the ATZ would reduce to 2.0 NM radius. If only Air/Ground Communications Service is provided, they would lose the ATZ.

Interesting times ahead, if the aerodrome cannot operate as a viable business with passenger carrying flights, it certainly will not without them. The infrastructure necessary to support passenger flights (ie ATC/ ILS/Instrument approach procedures) will not be sustainable.

Sorry to say it looks like the end of the road for the airport as we have known it for the past years. I shall be sorry to see it go as I had my first ever flight from there, age 4 years, in a DH Dragon.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Sorry to say it looks like the end of the road for the airport as we have known it for the past years. I shall be sorry to see it go as I had my first ever flight from there, age 4 years, in a DH Dragon

Mine too - in a Dragon Rapide - taxied in the Dragon (another story).

Flown there off and on for the past thirty years.

[xrayalpha]

TCAS Fan wrote:

" If only Air/Ground Communications Service is provided, they would lose the ATZ."

Incorrect.

If a licensed airfield then you can have an ATZ with A/G (see EGPG - Cumbernauld)

If unlicensed, then to have an ATZ you need to have FISOs operating radios. So Glenrothes - now unlicensed due to the changes that allow ab initio traning from unlicensed airfields - has lost its ATZ.

The only logic seems to be that "serious" airfields should have ATZs!

(Two of Scotland's four largest recreational airfields - based on aircraft based there - would therefore not be allowed ATZs.)

ps Strathaven is also, it seems, ineligble for a four-letter ICAO code because most of the aircraft based there are microlights and homebuilts.

[TCAS FAN]

Xrayalpha

To clarify, if they stay licensed ATC/AFIS/AGCS will facilitate retention of the ATZ.

If they de-license only ATC or AFIS will facilitate its retention.

[Jan Olieslagers]

And what's the relevance of having an ATZ?

[Odai]

As far as I understand it's just there to protect traffic on/around the aerodrome.

I think you always need to be in two-way radio contact with the ATSU if inside the ATZ, and if the ATSU is an ATC unit you need to obey all instructions given by the ATCO.

[xrayalpha]

Hi Odai,

"I think you always need to be in two-way radio contact with the ATSU if inside the ATZ, and if the ATSU is an ATC unit you need to obey all instructions given by the ATCO."

Incorrect.

Glasgow (ATC) and Cumbernauld (ATZ with A/G) allow non-radio traffic (see AIP).

Of course, it is many moons since anyone even dared ask to go into Glasgow non-radio!

So, two-way contact - but could be by light signal or (as has happened with one of our chaps) relay from another aircraft in formation.

ps. Cumbernauld, as far as I know, now doesn't have an Aldis lamp. H&S said they couldn't keep the battery in the tower. So they would have had to carry it up and down the stairs. Folks said: if we go down the stairs, we can just use the radio in the fire truck!

[Hadley Rille]

Thanks for the interesting replies.

[Jan Olieslagers]

@xrayalpha: allow me to repeat the question:

what then is the relevance of (having) an ATZ ?

[xrayalpha]

As Odai said:

"As far as I understand it's just there to protect traffic on/around the aerodrome."

Basically, the airfield operator gets some say on who flies in the vicinity of their airfield. They might allow people in non-radio but PPR, they might say people have to have radio and PPR, they might just let people call up on the radio.

They might even, like Oban, say PPR by telephone only, and then try to turn away a pal of mine who called up on radio. He then phoned a minute later on his mobile interfaced with the intercom!!! Ha! Ha!

It also gives a little bit of conspicuity on the charts! Otherwise, Farmer Giles with a 40 hour a year Piper Cub gets a small circle on the chart. A busy microlight training airfield might also have the same annotation - see East Fortune or Strathaven. Or a busy GA field, see Fife.

[soay]

From the BBC: Blackpool Airport to close after 'no buyer found' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-29529327).

Official announcement here (http://www.blackpoolinternational.com/airport/news-media/news/blackpool-airport-announcement-0).

[Odai]

xrayalpha, thanks for that - clears things up for me. :p

Looks like I confused 'two-way contact' with 'two-way radio contact' - I should know better given I did my PPL training at an airfield with an ATZ that often featured non-radio aircraft (and a signals square).

[minimad]

I work at the airport, hopefully GA will continue and will remain strong at Blackpool.

[tobster911]

Does anyone know what's going to happen to GA at Blackpool Airport? Companies such as ANT and Flight Training Blackpool, will they have to close or will they operate out of it as an unmanned airfield?

[Sir George Cayley]

Blackpool Airport is Licensed (P724) by the CAA and therefore is open to commercial air transport operations requiring the use of said licensed airport.

A few years ago the CAA changed the rules for those airfields licensed purely for flying training and a few took advantage.

It would be possible for some operations to continue at Blackpool if the status changed but cancelling the licence triggers other consequences such as the loss of airspace and some r/t frequencies as the ANSP approval would go too.

If the licence is issued to a part of Balfour Beatty as opposed to Blackpool's local authority it's loss would be hard to regain due to the new licensee having to comply with EASA rules.

If BB fail to sell their share of the airport what they do with it as an asset remains to be seen but will be key to continued GA ops.

The Council have been very quiet on this subject but must have a Plan B for the 15th Oct. What if BB lock all the gates so no-one can get in or out?

As many livelihoods depend on continuing flying activity clear statements of intentions are need now to bring some certainty to the situation.

SGC

[Mikeod]

Quotes from Blackpool gazette

"Air traffic control and fire cover will end on October 15th. The smaller general aviation companies at the Squires Gate hub will be free to continue to operate."

"more than 100 staff at the airport, including fire fighters, security, air traffic controllers and administrative staff, are set to lose their jobs when the airport shuts on Wednesday 15th Oct"

If Atc are being booted out, surely a/g or info can't replace them immediately? Looks like the whole of Blackpool airport will be shutting after all then at least until there's some sort of radio cover sorted?

[EGTE]

You don't NEED radio cover - and there is always the Safetycom frequency 135.475 MHz as a fallback.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Standing back from all this for a second - it seems bizarre that Blackpool Airport is closing so suddenly.

It's been in operation for so many years yet at the stroke of Balfour Beatty's lawyer's pen it's all over.

I'm just sorry for all those who earned a livelihood through the Airport and imagine it must all be something of a shock.

I certainly had heard nothing about it until this Thread on PPRuNe.

[Mikeod]

Even without the airport terminal traffic Blackpool can be a busy place, especially on a sunny weekend. Not even having a/g radio wouldn't work.

[milhouse999]

Jet 2 were going to operate out of Blackpool as normal until the end of today then everything will be diverted to and from Manchester, instead of waiting until the 15th.

However whilst mid-air it appears the 9PM arrival into Blackpool by Jet 2 from Alicante has been diverted to Manchester, with an announcement on the Jet 2 website. Other sites still show it due in to BLK at 2100hrs.

Maybe the owners have gone in and booted out all the staff ahead of schedule, or they've all walked out.

[fisbangwollop]

I have two major gripes with Balfour Beatty. Firstly it was through Blackpool airport that my interest and subsequent aviation career kicked off some 42 years ago.
Secondly having a rather large holding of Balfour Beatty shares I am somewhat distressed that only a few weeks back the Board of Directors of BB turned down a rather lucrative takeover deal from Clarrilion only a few days later to issue a profits warning! I reckon every single member of the BB board should hang from Blackpool tower by their testicles........sadly though they have proved from recent actions they don't have any!!!

[EGNH_Flyboy]

BBC News - Blackpool Airport closure: BAE Systems offers to help aviation operators (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-29598036)

[soay]

Please sign this petition to save Blackpool Airport:

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/70619

[Johnm]

Sadly I think Blackpool airport failed because it employed 110 people, there's no way to provide funded work for that many people in a GA regional airport. The need to have ATC on site to run CAT in the UK is a big problem that needs fixing through the red tape challenge work. Nonetheless I reckon a deal with Warton for ATC and say 4 FISOs on the field would be more than enough. Then 7 firemen or so, some support staff who can also do security and you could run the whole operation with less than 30 people.

[mad_jock]

You need more than fiso but radar from warton would work.

There is no way you would get the numbers down to 30 the security empire would require that just to move 1pax.

From my limited dealings with operating in there they need to have a clear out of the dinosaurs anyway so I suspect CAT will be gone for a year at least. Once all the TUPE issues are gone they may then be able to be born again.

BAe have an interest in keeping the tarmac available so close but if the cost is to much i don't know.

[NorthSouth]

BAe have an interest in keeping the tarmac available so closeHmm, but at only 1800m or so LDA and with no arrestor cables it's probably not good enough for a lot of the potential divert scenarios e.g. high weight flapless Typhoon. They probs use Valley. And anyway, would BAe pay for it? Seems doubtful. Unlike the RAF, which is happy to pay for keeping full facilities open at both Kinloss and Leuchars for Typhoon diverts after their "closure".

[mad_jock]

I don't know but for cat ops it would be no problem.

We shall see what happens a bit like norwich there has been years of history and dinosaur procedures stopping anything happening.

Now if they choose its a clean slate. Any airport which starts raping pax in the departure lounge for a development fee is on borrowed time anyway in my opinion. Its just giving chemo to someone who already has secondary cancers.

[flyalotbob]

The whole of the airport not just the terminal is closing tomorrow evening. No date as to when its reopening :=

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Very sad from an aviation history point of view alone. Blackpool was very 'go ahead' in the days of early aviation, sponsoring flying pageants in 1909 and 1910, the latter being on the Squire's Gate site.

It's a great pity if 'dinosauritis' has killed it. I used to enjoy flying in there in happy days when you paid your (very reasonable) landing fee to the bloke in the fire station office, then out through the side gate and away.

[mad_jock]

There is 4 people in the terminal I am more than happy I will never have to be subjected to having to deal with again.

If even 5% of the antics i have heard of that have gone on there are true there will be more than a few breathing a sigh of relief its shutting.

Hopefully it will open again after a period with all the dead wood gone and some of the rotten pruned. You need to get rid of the idiots that bring the whole place down.

[Mikeod]

Love this; 'Blackpool Council’s cabinet member for highways and transport, Cllr John Jones is blaming Jet2 for the closure of Blackpool airport'

Has everybody forgotten until recently Ryanair used to operate from Blackpool. And why did they completly abandon Blackpool, because of an airport development fee introduced by Balfour Beatty, an extra £10 pp.

It's the idiot/s that introduced the airport development fee that has led to this.

Balfour Beatty want land to build on. Only if they sell the airport land to a buyer who knows and wants to make money by running an airport, only then will egnh be secure.

[no slots]

Plenty happening at Norwich.Plenty of dinosaurs( and very popular ) down the road at the Dinosaur Park. Not seen any on the airport for a few million years now!!!
Anyway, this is a Blackpool forum. The 2 don't begin to compare!:mad:

[mad_jock]

True for a start blackpools runways and taxiways arn't breaking up.

And you should talk to the bird running the front house pax services and the idiots in security in Norwich to talk to the local dinosaurs.


The idea though that norwich will be anything but a constant battle to make ends meet is fantasy. Eventually they won't be able to put off the major infrastructure renewal thats required there and that will be it.

[Cows getting bigger]

I flew into Blackpool about two weeks ago. ATC etc were helpful but we had to wait about 45 mins for fuel (there were no other aircraft on the move) and a friendly airfield tels girl told us that it was pointless trying to get through security to grab a sandwich, we would be better-off starving.

In many ways, no different from most regional airports.

[mad_jock]

I think they used the same security consultant that Norwich did.

Utter idiots of the, I am taking your sandwich because butter can melt producing a liquid mentality. And no you can't put it in a liquid bag and put it through because its not in a bottle with a size on it.

[fwjc]

Sure you're not confusing Norwich with Southend? It might be ridiculously expensive, but handling at Saxonair is a pleasure, while Southend is a run-down hovel with under-paid over-zealous security, a GA apron that looks more like a gravel driveway and taxiways that look like they've survived a minor air attack, but only just. They are redeemed only by certain staff who are professional, friendly and helpful.
Blackpool was tatty last time I was there. I've visited all three within the last month, and a few others besides. At Blackpool, directions to the C were a joke, although the refuelling guy was great. Despite a couple of helpful staff most weren't bothered and I wouldn't choose to go back there if it were open.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

A fond memory of Blackpool in the early '80s. We'd (me and Peter P) flown in in our Chippy in days when the radio rarely worked on xmit (not a major problem back then). On departure, we found the RH brake had failed. Peter had flown in so it was my leg back to Barton, and due the duff right brake Peter was out on the RH wingtip as 'steerer' as we slowly made our way from the apron to the runway. And it was raining. Eventually, at walking pace, we got to the holding point and I pressed the PTT.

Me: "squeel crackle burp click"

BPL ATC: "If that's SL, you are cleared to line up"

I signalled to Peter to proceed, and he steered me onto the runway, got in, (dripping wet), and we closed the canopy (so actually we were both wet having spent the last 20 minutes or so with it open).

Me: "Click, burp, Lima, crackle, pop"

BPL ATC: "If that's that bluddy Chipmunk, just GO!"

Well, he might not have actually said "bluddy", but it was certainly implied!

[Jetblu]

Blackpool has always been an unlucky destination for me.

Went on a weekend fishing trip in the 80's and all we caught was crabs.
Fly in for a lads weekend in the 90's and all that was available was mingers.
Had an engine failure with a Seneca on t/o in 2000.
Flew in with the C421 in 2011 and lost the door/locker key somewhere on a beach.

I just ain't going back! :p

[mad_jock]

Its on my last resort unless we are going to die diversion list for me.

You might not be able to understand a word the refueler is saying in liverpool but at least he turns up pretty quick and doesn't act like he is doing you a favour selling you fuel.

[flybymike]

You might not be able to understand a word the refueler is saying in liverpool but at least he turns up

And there speaks a Scot....:)

[fisbangwollop]

A very sad day indeed. The book link below is well worth a read.....from an era where Blackpool airport was a very friendly place to visit. John Kilburn was one of the people that fuelled my interest in ATC and from which subsequently became my career....now, and after 42 years in the job I still enjoy every day I spend at work and to be honest I have Johnny to thank for that.Let's hope soon Blackpool will once again Be a top place to visit like it was in the late 60's early 70's. :cool:

Observations from the Tower: An Air Traffic Controller's Memoirs of Blackpool Airport: Amazon.co.uk: John Kilburn: Books

[flyalotbob]

Another update from Westair

Westair, Blackpool - Blackpool Airport News (http://www.westair.uk.com/blackpoolairportnews.php)

[tomtytom]

8 slots a day a hour each? 48hrs PPR gotta hope this really is just temporary measures!!!

[piperboy84]

Hard to believe a city of 150 thousand can't support or doesn't justify a mixed GA and CAT airport, I used to spent time up in rural Alaska in the 90's and was impressed how shyitey wee fishing towns used to have at least 1 scheduled service of a 737 several times a week, I doubt if they were subsidized.

Shame really.

Edit to add, just bought that john kilburn book of Amazon, looking forward to what looks likes like an interesting read.

[mad_jock]

And why on earth do they need that when there are loads of GA airfields with significatly more movements than blackpool who can survive without slots and an AG radio. Sherburn for example.

Looks like they haven't got rid of all the idiots on closure.

Maybe they are scared that things would work better without ATC. Lets face it the only time I have met another aircraft going the oppersite way on down wind was at blackpool. Luckily I was at tp circuit height of 1500 and the other aircraft was at sep 1000ft. All done under the control of some stupid bint. Apparently it wasn't the first time she had done it, or the last.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

There are no small GA airfields from Sleap northwards, west of the pennines. There's Manchester (not GA friendly), Liverpool (heading the same way), Barton (short, rough grass, closed often in winter), and that's IT!

Never mind benfitsville Blackpool, how come the massive Manchester / Liverpool connurbations (both vibrant cities) and everything in between has only one short, grass, muddy GA airfield? There seem to be plenty east of the pennines, and loads in the SE of course!

[piperboy84]

Never mind benfitsville Blackpool, how come the massive Manchester / Liverpool connurbations (both vibrant cities) and everything in between has only one short, grass, muddy GA airfield? There seem to be plenty east of the pennines, and loads in the SE of course!

Is it possible that a lot of the current GA airfields from the Southeast all the way up the east coast as far as Aberdeen were former RAF fields hurriedly built in the early 40,s because they were "Hitler facing" rendering any potential airfields sites in the west less desirable from an operational and geographical standpoint, particularly in the Northwest?

[cessnapete]

Piper boy, how true, we make it so difficult in UK. Many airfields in for example US and Aus operate GA and CAT on what we call Safetycom with no problems at all. No PPR and VFR/IFR with GPS/ILS.
How many years will the CAA Gold Plating process take, to get to this type of operation?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Is it possible that a lot of the current GA airfields from the Southeast all the way up the east coast as far as Aberdeen were former RAF fields hurriedly built in the early 40,s because they were "Hitler facing" rendering any potential airfields sites in the west less desirable from an operational and geographical standpoint, particularly in the Northwest?

There were very many wartime airfields west of the pennines, too, for training, defence, and aircraft production. So many in Shropshire that often their circuits overlapped! To list them would take a book (and it indeed has - a whole volume of 'Action Stations'). Some north of Shropshire that are or were still around and one might have thought would survive include Calveley, Cranage, Stretton, Burtonwood, Woodford, Burscough, and Mier.

I suspect the massive growth of Manchester Airport and its all-enveloping control zone explains some of that, but not all.

[cockney steve]

I've remarked on this before,but living near Rochdale and Oldham, the Manchester-side of the M62, we are in the Manchester Control zone.
Anyone wanting to fly,other than from their own field, is faced with a 45-minute trek Westwards to Barton. It's probably easier to get to Crosland Moor, which i'm led to believe has it's own challenges. there are 2 rotary fliers i know of, locally and Ihave seen a Flexwing about....but otherwise, nowt between here and Blackpool. GA is being slowly throttled to death.

[soay]

8 slots a day a hour each? 48hrs PPR gotta hope this really is just temporary measures!!!
The airfield operators are blaming the CAA for this ridiculous restriction. Surely they aren't that daft? :ugh:

[ETOPS]

There's Manchester (not GA friendly), Liverpool (heading the same way), Barton (short, rough grass, closed often in winter), and that's IT!


Don't get me started on my favourite rant :{

Just been driving along the closed runway at Woodford. It's in essentially pristine condition and all the facilities are still in place apart from the damaged ILS LOC aerial. It should be about to open as the North's premier Business and GA airfield (if I had my way) but instead will be completely dug up and covered in housing etc...

Even the small northeast section that might have been saved ( at around 900m length) will now be bisected by the Poynton relief road to be built within two years.

There really is no hope :ugh:

[Hadley Rille]

B1913/14*(RAC)

N53°46.00 W003°02.00 3nm

Friday, 17 Oct 2014 00:00 to Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 23:59*
Elevation: SFC - 2100

FOR THE PURPOSES OF RULE 45 OF THE RULES OF THE AIR REGULATIONS 2007 THE BLACKPOOL ATZ, A CIRCLE OF 2.5NM RADIUS CENTRED ON 534618N 0030143W SFC/2100FT AMSL, IS INDEFINITELY SUSPENDED

[ETOPS]

The airfield operators are blaming the CAA for this ridiculous restriction.

Well they might like to stop doing that!

They now operate a private Unlicensed aerodrome - the CAA are not involved.

Maybe somebody is hiding behind this as an excuse for their own problems?

[soay]

Even if that was not the case, surely the CAA would understand the safety implications of only allowing one movement per hour, with 48 hours notice. The pressure to use your slot would be immense.

[NorthSouth]

The main issue will I suspect be the integration of the remaining commercial air transport traffic (Bond Offshore Helicopters) with any private GA traffic. Are they still providing full ATC or has that been withdrawn? And if it has, are they operating on A/G Radio only?

I can't think of any other places where commercial passenger helicopter traffic is operating from an unlicensed field where there are other uncontrolled movements taking place.

NS

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Shaggysheep...

How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...

[TCAS FAN]

NorthSouth

In answer to your query about ATC, it appears no as the ATZ has been withdrawn. It is only possible to sustain an ATZ at an unlicensed aerodrome if either ATC or AFIS is provided.

[Mach Jump]

One movement per hour with 48 hours notice

As many aircraft are maintained at Blackpool, how is one supposed to carry out post maintainence test flights, any of which could require several intermediate landings for adjustments to be made before the aircraft is acceptable? :ugh:


MJ:ok:

[Mikeod]

rm from flybpl isnt putting up with 2 days ppr, he's relocated back to tarm farm cockerham :8

[soay]

They've made everyone in ATC redundant and lost their ATZ. The helicopter operations are running out of Warton now.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Shaggysheep... How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...

I didn't say it was. I said:

There's Manchester (not GA friendly), Liverpool (heading the same way)

Not the same thing at all.

One example of how it's moving the wrong way is apron security; fences everywhere with electronic locks. Never used to be like that. You either have to buy an airside pass, or get someone to let you in and out. When I first started operating from there if I forgot something from my car I just nipped back and got it - no problem, no delay. Not now - find someone to let you out, go to car, find someone to let you in again. A right pain!

[mad_jock]

That's hardly the airports fault about the fences.

And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.

Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security station.

[Above The Clouds]

Cleared For A Coffee
How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...


Only because there are few places left in the Northwest to base an aircraft, I would give up flying rather than be based at Liverpool.

[NorthSouth]

MJ:Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security stationPlease don't blame the messengers. In my experience they're mostly as much victims as we are. And, where they're not dealing with thousands of people a day, my experience is that they're more likely to be "human". Doesn't alter the rules they are employed to enforce but at least makes it a slightly less negative experience.
NS

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

That's hardly the airports fault about the fences.

I didn't say it was. I cited it as an example of how it's becoming more a 'big' airport and less an informal GA field

And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.

They don't give 'em away! They're a few hundred quid. Why aren't they more like a fiver, which would cover issue cost?

Fuelling was another problem getting worse. We'd instruct the handlers to have the aeroplane out on the apron 8:00am. The fuellers came round about 9 to 9:30 and filled up all the club aeroplanes and ours (Chippys always need fuel - they have tiny tanks). I'd turn up for a two hour slot for some aeros and a strip landing or two and find the tanks empty. By the time I'd got hold of fuel it wasn't worth flying!

It all adds up to a pretty negative and expensive experience. So.....

Only because there few places left in the Northwest to base an aircraft, I would give up flying rather than be based at Liverpool.

Funny you should say that.

Liverpool ATC were super, slotting GA in. But as for the rest of it, the distinct impression was that someone in management really didn't want us doing this GA stuff.

Anyone know of an LAA Cub share going, on a farm strip in the area?

[mad_jock]

Some are as you say and others are just a thick person with a bit of power and loves it.

These are the types that try and take your sandwiches off you because they have butter in them.

Same with the re-fuelers I can understand with pre-booked CAT flights they come first but then again they tend to be earlier than your normal flying school flights.

But refuelers that do the morning rush then decide that GA can wait until they have had their breakfast. Then they go and dip the tanks etc. And only after they have done everything else they decide to bother there backside to pump some fuel.

[west lakes]

Rossall Field (http://ukga.com/airfield/rossall-field)

from

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/519678-fly-bpl-beginning-end.html

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Flew out of Blackpool Today to funnily enough, pick up an aircraft from annual. The airport has special procedures in place now to accommodate aircraft leaving from maintenance, Bond and Helimed flights. The whole experience was surreal with an almost empty airport, and no one telling oneself to hold short or taxi and the like, the lack of fee was nice too but i bet one will come in the post soon...

[bad bear]

Just wondering how big the losses were and how much full ATC was costing. Other parts of the world run small airports without ATC and pilots broadcast their intentions and sort their own separation (CTAF).

bb

[mad_jock]

its not an option in the UK.

[maxred]

Just wondering how big the losses were and how much full ATC was costing. Other parts of the world run small airports without ATC and pilots broadcast their intentions and sort their own separation (CTAF)

Think I read somewhere circa 3 million a year. That is unsustainable.

Blackpool was not a particularly 'small', airport. The issue is when small airports, are run as big airports. Recipe for ultimate disaster.

The infrastructure only survives in Scotland through public subsidy. Without it, a lot of small airports, being run as big ones, would not be here.

[fisbangwollop]

I was born and bred in Lytham St Anne's. Living in Highbury Road as a youngster I looked out from my bedroom window across farmers fields and had a fabulous view of everything that happened at the airport.......many years ago those very farmers fields became housing estates, how ironic would it be if the airport that I used to enjoy so much would also become said housing estate.

Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?

Sadly I fear that this is the beginning of the end, I only hope at the end of the day we can at least see a small portion of the airfield saved if only for GA use, but sadly I fear financially that would not be feasable !:{

[1.3VStall]

Shaggy Sheep Driver,

If it doesn't have to be a Cub I know of a quarter share in a Jodel available on a farm strip in the area.

PM me if you are interested.

[maxred]

Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?

I don't think ATC was at the root of the financial issues. It was a part, but by no means a large part.

To operate the airfield on a commercial basis, you require an airline infrastructure that has customers, and customers that are willing to pay more than £13.00 to get to Tenerife.:sad:

You also require a business infrastructure that can thrive in an economically vibrant economy. Not taxed to oblivion by an external and onerous business taxation system.

Look into this and you are getting to the bottom of the several severe issues facing the UK economy today. Oh, and I think it will get worse.before it gets better....

[maxred]

Sadly it is all down to money, and ever lower ticket prices. WTF? Of course we should be taught to fly every aircraft manually and with raw data first, followed by a gradual feeding in of the automatics, but that would use up too much of the profits. And it's not the workers who are benefiting from this money saving. It is the owners or the shareholders who are fast asleep in bed, raking in the profits while you and I are mincing around doing our 4th sector in the middle of the night in bad weather, carrying MEL issues and delays. (Or flying to countries with Ebola). CAA/ICAO should be more pro-active in checking airlines for responsible engineering support, responsible training, responsible crew compliment, sensible SOP's, etc.

Meanwhile, the management think it's all fine because Johnny Newboy with their MPL can fly perfectly well using the automatics and the SOP's.

(I am not having a go at 'Johnny Newboy'. It's not their fault either).

And to prove my point, this just posted on the Thomas Cook thread on this forum by Uplinker.
It is all linked, sadly:ouch:

[cockney steve]

Well , as we're derailing a thread, (as usual!)....Uplinker, before spouting such drivel, should perhaps look at the P&L accounts of these "greedy" operators.

Oh, yes, indeed, witha very few exceptions, they make a small fortune out of Air transport...BUT , that's only because they started with large fortunes.

Keeping the ticket-price down, in Cattle-Class, widens the customer-base dramatically. those packed-in bums-on-seats pay the overheads, the premium tickets add fer more to the bottom-line than the additional service, space and ameneties would suggest.

Air-travel has been, allowed to the great unwashed since packaged holidays to the Costas became mainstream.

Get rid of all the Proles, make air -travel exclusive once again and you will reduce the world's airliner fleet by a good 70%....that means a huge shrinkage in Aircrew jobs, support jobs and industry....like the motor-trade, they (Governments) cannot afford to kill ir stifle these industries.

[maxred]

CS Far from derailing, the discussion rests on Blackpool going bust. It went bust for a reason, I think you miss the point.

The LoCo survives,by volumes. Volumes of chaff paying 13.00. The model exists in getting places like Blackpool to fund it. No landing fees, reduced everything, arguing that the shops stc will make up for the fund gap.

Eh, no it doesn't. Sooner or later, the model collapses. Blackpool is but one of many. Most Tour fiirms work in effective administration, the one in Uplinkers post being one.:8

Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.

Contrary to his name, maxred is turning blue!

Time to take a breath, mate!

[mad_jock]

If bb own the airport but not the land is there anything stopping them destroying the runway and selling every thing down to the last light bulb on the site?

[maxred]

MJ, they could lock the gates tonight, and it could be a Tesco in two months time.

SSD, lol, I always was blue, very right of centre blue.........

[Cows getting bigger]

Tesco? Too upmarket for Blackpool. More likely a Kwiksave.

Tongue out-of-cheek, making a CAT business out of somewhere like Blackpool is near impossible. Others on the dream list should include:

Doncaster
Humberside
Derry/Londonderry
Durham Tees Valley
Norwich
Valley (or whatever they call the civilian bit)
Prestwick

[maxred]

Doncaster
Humberside
Derry/Londonderry
Durham Tees Valley
Norwich
Valley (or whatever they call the civilian bit)
Prestwick

The combined losses of that lot could run the NHS for a month or so.......

[horatio_b]

Others making sizeable losses include Liverpool (£7.1m) and Leeds (£5.2m).

Any airport without a large shopping centre attached, to generate income, is going to struggle.

[xrayalpha]

Couple of operators in Scotland with AOCs that allow commercial flights from unlicensed airfields:

Loch Lomond Seaplanes and Hebridean, if I recall correct.

So we could have a US model?

[maxred]

LLS have had a pretty major uphill struggle to survive, and if it had not been for the tenacity of its owner, well.....

Hebridean feed off a very large government subsidy. Without it, no operation.

Sorry, issues go much deeper, and a U.S. model, under EASA??????

[no slots]

I think you'll find that Norwich is one of the fastest growing( if not the fastest) regional airports in the UK. There is lots going on and more to come. Diversity is the name of the game.

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Horatio...

Liverpool has actually made a decent operating profit the last few years, it's the interest on the overall debt which brings it into a net loss.

[NorthSouth]

Diversity is the name of the gameThat's surely right, and good luck to Norwich, they deserve a decent airport.
But they've been lucky in having a very nice baseline of offshore heli traffic where the "customers" are all offshore employees where the costs of security provision etc are ultimately all paid by the oil/gas companies.
The challenge for the others is to haul themselves out of the cul-de-sac of ever-decreasing income from commercial air transport users, driven by the obnoxious O'Leary, and in an era where any commercial air transport activity attracts massive security costs.
NS

[gasax]

As far as the 'growth of Norwich traffic' is concerned it would appear the East Anglian IQ continues to decline - or have the thieving airport management stopped ripping off passengers by charging them to get into the departure lounge with the 'Airport development fee'?

Without paying it of course you cannot get on a flight..................inspite of buying a ticket etc...

When exactly is the airport going to be 'developed'?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

But they've been lucky in having a very nice baseline of offshore heli traffic where the "customers" are all offshore employees where the costs of security provision etc are ultimately all paid by the oil/gas companies.

Didn't Blackpool enjoy this advantage, too, with the Morcambe Bay Gas Field Heli operation?

[no slots]

gasax,
You seem to be the font of all knowledge about Norwich. Airport development, some already started, some starting very soon.
New radar, state of the art engine running facility, large aircraft spray centre, aviation academy.
Basically, you have a choice. Pay the Developement fee and have a hassle free flight/ holiday. Carpark next to the terminal. Free trolleys. 1hr check in. Or drive to another airport and back again possibly at some stupid o'clock. Pay lots of money to park away from the airport, 2hr check in, pay for trolleys. Wait ages for your bags etc.
It appears that plenty of people chose to pay the fee.
In my experience security is the same where ever you choose for all the security bashers out there.:)

[maxred]

Well done Norwich.....getting back to Blackpool, this does not look promising for the future of ANY ops:ooh:

Zolfo Cooper statement regarding Blackpool Airport Limited | Zolfo Cooper LLP (http://www.europe.zolfocooper.com/publications/zolfo-cooper-statement-regarding-blackpool-airport-limited)

[gasax]

Interesting background from the liquidator.

According to the CAA, in 2008 Blackpool had 424,000 passengers, last year 235,000.

So if the liquidator is to be believed, it never so much as broke even. Which asks just one or two questions of Balfour Beatty's management of the place over quite a long period.

As for Norwich - the airport 'development' fee has according to their own site been used to pay for;
Over the last four years the ADF has helped investment in the following projects at the airport:

- Increase in holiday destinations (both summer and winter) and retention of scheduled services
- Terminal building extension and refurbishment
- Flight information system
- Main apron upgrades for aircraft parking in front of the terminal
- State of the art radar equipment
- Fire training and emergency response facilities and equipment


So in other words the basic running of the facility

[maxred]

So in other words the basic running of the facility

:D

That is the UK population for you - SHEEEPLE........

[md 600 driver]

so blackpool has had 2.35 million in £10 development money LAST YEAR ALONE where has this gone? is someone going to be accountable ?

Wont the CAA take any blame

[maxred]

I flew to the Ilse of Man last year, one way to pick up my plane. I was charged the 10.00 development fee, which was a bit of a shock because when I booked the ticket, no where did it mention an additional 10.00 fee to travel out of Blackpool. This fee was non negotiable, because you could not get through security, of which there were many I might add, unless you had the voucher.

Now, if they were trading whilst insolvent, that is illegal, and a claim may be possible from all those that paid the fee. Deemed fraud perhaps.......only because there was no chance of any 'Development'.

[Mikeod]

Rm is in the paper again

?Safety threat? fears over loss of airport - Blackpool Gazette (http://blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/community/community-news/safety-threat-fears-over-loss-of-airport-1-6937611)

[foxmoth]

Wont the CAA take any blame

Why? The CAA are not responsible for the commercial operation just the regulation and safety which is much the same for any airfield, it is down to the operator what level of service the airfield operates to and thus what level of regulation.

[Mikeod]

Job Search | Jobstoday (http://www.jobstoday.co.uk/searchjobs/?Sector=513013&LocationId=1111%2C20752050%2C20752010&radialtown=Blackpool%2C+Lancashire&countrycode=GB)

[neutron]

SQUIRES GATE AIRPORT OPERATIONS LIMITED. (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/09307995/SQUIRES-GATE-AIRPORT-OPERATIONS-LIMITED)

[flybymike]

I can't help thinking that some of those job vacancies might be filled by the previous incumbents who may well have collected a nice little redundancy payout during the interim.

[JDA2012]

From the jobs link:

Following the recent closure of Blackpool Airport and cessation of operations, Squires Gate Airport Operations Limited, the new operator of the site, is pleased to announce opportunities for suitably qualified personnel to be part of a new operations team to be based at the airport. The airport will be starting a new and exciting era which will see a viable and sustainable operation supporting the many operators and businesses based at the site. We are currently seeking suitably qualified, experienced and motivated people for the following positions...

[Mandator]

Registered office of the new firm c/o Balfour Beatty in London?

Strange.

[flybymike]

Sounds suspiciously like a Phoenix/ pre pack arrangement

[maxred]

Well one of the new Directors, is also a main board Director of Balfour Beatty Plc. I will let the more enlightened of our forum readers draw their own conclusions.

[flyalotbob]

We?re back in business - Blackpool Gazette (http://blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/community/community-news/we-re-back-in-business-1-7001463)

Think this deserves a :D and a :ugh:
Metar & taf already back in operation.

Q) EGTT/QCAXX/IV/B /A /0/999/5346N00302W
A) EGNH
B) 14/12/12 07:00 C) 15/02/28 21:00
E) TWR AND APP OPERATING COMBINED ON FREQUENCY 119.950. FREQUENCY 118.40 IS ONLY TO BE USED ON INSTRUCTIONS FROM ATC.
Q) EGTT/QFFXX/IV/NBO /A /0/999/5346N00302W
A) EGNH
B) 14/12/12 07:00 C) 15/02/28 21:00
E) AERODROME FIRE CATEGORY 2/H2. CATEGORY 3 AIRCRAFT ACCEPTED SUBJECT TO HANDLING REQUEST TO ATC VIA EMAIL ATC(AT)BLACKPOOLAIRPORT.COM
Q) EGTT/QFAAH/IV/NBO /A /0/999/5346N00302W
A) EGNH
B) 14/12/12 07:00 C) 15/02/28 21:00
E) AERODROME OPEN, HOURS AS PER UKAIP. STRICT PPR FOR BOTH ARRIVING AND DEPARTING TRAFFIC WHICH MUST BE REQUESTED NO LATER THAN 1600 ON DAY PRIOR TO ANY INTENDED FLIGHT. REQUESTS MUST BE SENT BY EMAIL TO ATC(AT)BLACKPOOLAIRPORT.COM. LATE REQUESTS FOR OPERATIONS BETWEEN 0900 AND 1700 MAY BE CONSIDERED ON THE DAY OF OPERATION SUBJECT TO ATC WORKLOAD AND AVAILABILITY. SEE UKAIP AND OTHER NOTAM INFO RELEVANT TO EGNH FOR GENERAL CONDITIONS OF USE

[PA28181]

Does it still have a "Public Use Licence" as shown in the current list? If yes aren't the PPR requirements a bit OTT.?

[SpannerInTheWerks]

... and all done to get rid of Jet2.

Good ploy.

NATS never withdraw or amended the plates for the aerodrome during this 'transition period'!

... and I hear the red carpet is being prepared for the arrival of RM back on the field ...

[Mikeod]

BBC News - Blackpool Airport reopens to small aircraft (http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-30448920)

Quote 'The airport licence to resume flights has been renewed after owners of aviation businesses based at the airfield set up Squires Gate Airport Operations Limited.'

Is there any truth in this?

[A and C]

After the sucsesfull use of the tactics at Pylmouth, Manston and Filton Blackpool is the latest to be set up to fail as an airport so that houses can be built.

[west lakes]

You know? I read all these airport threads and get the impression there are parts of the aviation community (?) that won't be happy until some airports are covered in housing.
Perhaps some are actually anti airport folk wandering on these pages
I really wish all this negativity could stop as it will only encourage developers to close airports!

From
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/community/community-news/we-re-back-in-business-1-7001463

Owners of the new operating company, Balfour Beatty, confirmed the licence had been returned and operations were to resume next week.

If they were going to build on it, why did they reopen it! BB are NOT housing developers in any case

[ETOPS]

So what will be the landing fees (say around 1.1t) and the price of Avgas?

[phiggsbroadband]

The last time I flew into Blackpool, the payment of the GA Landing fee was 'farcical' to say the least....
After hunting around the reception and 5 offices in the terminal, I was told that they had no facilities for taking a cash transaction, and they would send an invoice (with the payment for cash discount) to me in the post.
This arrived, not to my address but to the flying club's address, and I don't think it had the 'cash discount' added (it was about £20 from memory.)


So please next time be aware that GA Pilots like to walk to the building with the Big Yellow C, and then meet a person sitting in front of a wooden cash register, where they can instantly hand over their fees. (cash or plastic.).
We also don't appreciate being bombarded with X-Rays or having to wear yellow jackets....

[Roger Robin]

I was pleased to find Blackpool open again but the cost of landing for a PA28 was out of this world - £86; £25.80 landing fee plus handing £16.50, parking £10.50 and ATC runway slot co-ordination all plus VAT.

[soay]

Those numbers don't add up to £86. How long did you park for and to whom did you pay the handling fee?

[JUST-local]

Sounds like you were handled by Hangar 3 or J-Max?

The fees for landing are £8.60 + Vat per 500KG. (You get 50% discount for pre-booked training flights.) First 2 hours parking is free then £2.70 + Vat per 500KG per 24 hours or part of.

Avgas is £1.52 + Vat.

[flybymike]

Is handling compulsory?

[newaviator]

I flew in PPL earlier in the year twice , self parked outside the Green Hangars ( Fire Station ) , paid my fee in the Main Terminal - about £10 if I recollect , went back to my aircraft and departed. No handling fee whatsoever .......

[Roger Robin]

yes I used Hangar 3, the only phone number I could find to arrange PPR, the costs was landing £25.80, handing £16.50,
parking £10.50, ATC runway slot co-ordination £16.50 all plus 20% and then 3% credit card fee, total £85.65.

[flybymike]

That is absolutely crazy money for a place like Blackpool, particularly in view of their recent troubled history when one might have imagined they were trying to encourage the return of GA . Those fees are in regional airport territory, and Blackpool is not a scheduled services airport any longer.
And what the hell is an ATC runway slot co ordination fee? Who invented that little money spinner?

[PENNINE BOY]

Come on Blackpool! Take the rose tinted glasses off.

I cant believe that they are charging GA handling fees! Take a look at the other airfields around that are doing well and you can not get any hangarage for GA because they are full! ie: Sleap, Sherburn, Breighton, etc and Church Fenton opening up later next year for GA.

Landing fees for a PA28 should be around £12.00 with parking free for the first 4 hours, lets encourage people to fly in and spend some cash in B/Pool either the pleasure beach or other attractions. Allow discounted landing fees, buy a contract of 25 landings that include free parking for £250.00. Ronaldsway have a similar scheme and it attracts custom. Have a similar scheme for light twins, that will encourage circuits to be flown at Blackpool instead of owners heading off to other airfields to conduct them.

There are well established clubs at Blackpool with good maintenance facility's, let them try and flourish instead off every few years looking at grand schemes of large commercial traffic that historically never lasts and is a drain on the airport.

The area has lots of opportunity's in the future with the possibility of fracking
that will need good transport links, lets hope the airport and management team will start to get back on track and not strangle the place with excessive fees and bureaucracy! :D

P.B.

[flybymike]

Didn't know about Church Fenton and GA? Any more info?
(Start a new thread if necessary)

[Sandgrown]

All another cunning plan of BB's. Charge extortionate GA fees to discourage GA flights, go out of business & shut down the airfield again, what are you left with?

A prime Housing Development site!

[The original plan]

Simples!!

S:suspect:

[west lakes]

Er, so one of the FBOs at Blackpool made the above charges. Note an FBO not the airport.
A quick look at NATS AIS shows a phone number for the airport (not an FBO) and elsewhere states no handling charges for aircraft below 5000kg!

But hey blame the airport!

Interesting how everyone seeks to listen to the new poster, without question, who doesn't state what type of aircraft and when, yet ignores the one above that paid £10.

Said it before, some seem to want the airport to fail!

[flybymike]

So what about the ATC runway slot co ordination fee. Who made that charge? The airport or the FBO?

[PENNINE BOY]

The new owner of Church Fenton is having a fly in on the 3rd January for ages GA tea and coffee available :ok:

[soay]

So what about the ATC runway slot co ordination fee. Who made that charge? The airport or the FBO?
Must have been the FBO, because you can book a slot yourself for free. It's not unreasonable to be charged, if someone does it on your behalf.

[Jan Olieslagers]

for ages

meaning four aces or what..? ;)

[west lakes]

Folk need to read post #159 on page 8

Sounds like you were handled by Hangar 3 or J-Max?

The fees for landing are £8.60 + Vat per 500KG. (You get 50% discount for pre-booked training flights.) First 2 hours parking is free then £2.70 + Vat per 500KG per 24 hours or part of.

Avgas is £1.52 + Vat.

[flybymike]

Thread drift.
Great news about Church Fenton, I'll try to go. Who is the new owner? I wasn't aware it had been sold or was even for sale?

[ak7274]

It's on 03/01/15 confirmed by new owner. further info to follow on new thread.

[AirForceNone]

Just seen the new website is live for Blackpool Airport with the fees being published!!

Thought I'd post it on here for everyone's comments after the discussions previously regarding extortionate charges

http://blackpoolairport.com (http://blackpoolairport.com/)/

AFN

[Flyingmac]

May 2014. Things have changed?

[chillindan]

I'm looking forward to flying in there this year.

[EGNH_Flyboy]

Most concerned with recent comments from Mr Rankin regarding the runway, and the fact that 'they will not be maintaining it'.

[Flyingmac]

Helichoppers don't need it?

[Sir George Cayley]

Errr, none players off the green please. This is Lancashire post for Lancashire pilots. You Tykes start yer own thread. :p

SGC

[thing]

This is Lancashire post for Lancashire pilots.

That'll be all three of you then...:p

[300hrWannaB]

OK
I've read the thread from end to end, and cut to the good news.
I understand that Blackpool Airport is open to GA users. It's just about the only airfield in Lancashire (excluding microlight strips, and excluding Manchester-shire and Liverpool-shire).

Landing fees for a light single 999kg appear to be £17.20 pus vat, but if you mention in your PPR that you are on a NAVEX training flight you get a 50% discount. (I wonder if they accept the 90 day t/o and landing thingy as training). 2 hours parking free.

So, it is dearer than a local, grass strip. But it isn't one. It compares price wise for similar tarmac airports. Here's Gloucestershire, which is Council run, not subsidised (AFAIK), and profit making. http://www.gloucestershireairport.co.uk/Portals/4/SCALE%20OF%20CHARGES%20Master%202014.pdf

My question. Is Blackpool Airport alive? That would be good to hear.

[PA28181]

Open for GA, land & park 3.5 hrs PA28 181 = £41:00

Place very quiet, & will probably stay like it at those prices:ugh:

[chillindan]

I'm planning on flying into Blackpool tomorrow afternoon. Has anyone flown in recently since the changes last year? Anyone got any advice/things to look out for?

Can you actually hear ATC now (last year when I flew in, I could hardly hear the tower controller).

Cheers.

[horatio_b]

Obtain PPR before setting off and speak to Warton before entering their zone.
ATC now normally just use Approach frequency which is a much stronger signal.
Parking is on main apron (in front of passenger terminal)

[LysanderV8]

A couple of things to note, unless things have changed since a couple of weeks back.


Do not arrive just after the scheduled Let410 from IOM. You will not be allowed to enter the security office until the Let has taxied for departure. This can take an hour from arrival to departure. You will be told to stay in your aircraft. If you have arrived before the Let, no problem, but if you want to depart while it is on the ground, you cannot. You are held in the security office until the Let taxies out. Madness, and all about a tiny area outside the security office that is called a "Critical Area" apparently.


The second point is that you need to book out by telephone from the security office, and if you are likely to leave after 1500, you must book out before 1500 the same day.


Otherwise, it's a nice airfield and a pleasant walk to the beachfront area for an ice cream. No food on the airport, but you can make a cup of tea or coffee in the pilots' lounge by the security office. It's free! If you want food, the Premier Inn is right outside and has a restaurant.

[Flyingmac]

I flew in today in one aircraft, to pick up another. Had sausage and mash at the Premier Inn. Sausages were nice. Mash was that instant stuff.:=

[newaviator]

Check the NOTAMS and/or when you contact them PPR , check that they have no enforced ATC breaks on the day which currently means the Airfield closes for 30 minute periods up to 4 times per day on certain dates - only a temporary measure though.


Could be embarrassing if you are subject to time constraints:\

[chillindan]

Thanks all, I think the Let arrives after I plan to leave, I'm planning on a 16:10 local departure time, so should be fine?

I'll double check the Notams in a bit, but there was nothing showing yesterday for today.

Cheers all, fingers crossed for a good flight, its my first into a controlled airport since I qualified last year...

[PA28181]

but there was nothing showing yesterday for today.

Don't they cover next day anyway? So if none then OK today?

[chillindan]

Yeah, but I checked anyway :)

Flew in ok. Spoke to Warton who told me to approach Blackpool direct for aright base join for runway 10. This went ok, managed to remember my ATC readbacks ok and made a very crosswindy landing on the main runway, which seems HUGE compared to Barton!

The very helpful ATCO then gave me progressive taxi instructions to the parking area and I went and paid and had a free coffee.

Rang the landline for the ATIS as the radio freq was NOTAMd as not working, called for taxi instructions (but forgot to add that I had information Alpha and was VFR) got started and taxyed to the hold just as the Let was touching down..

Took off on 13 and departed pier to pier. After changing to Warton and requesting a climb to 2000ft I flew back to Barton.

Very happy with the way things went, lots of new things and when I got back to Barton the crosswind was still there on 08R so I landed on 14, another new runway for me!

[newaviator]

Well done .....from another Barton NPPL(M) :D