Can any other country do this?

[ShotOne]

If the only source was this forum, one might be forgiven for thinking that our military was entirely pointless/useless/toothless, around 80% of posts being negative to greater or lesser degree. Yet night after night we've been successfully conducting the most complex long-range missions through potentially hostile or diplomatically sensitive airspace three thousand miles from our shores.

Of course some will respond, rightly, that the military gets on with it and makes do, whatever. This is certainly true, now and always. But it's also true that the RAF HAVE been given the tools for this job. Not just obvious things like aircraft and missiles. The difficult political, logistic and diplomatic groundwork has clearly been done. How many other countries, other than the US would be capable of this?

[NutLoose]

30,000 IS "soldiers," two per Hilux truck divided by eight Tornados, it's going to take a while...

It all seems a bit like political posturing, playing a 1st world power with a 3rd world military capability, but to be honest we do not appear to have anything to do anything else these days.

[BOAC]

How many other countries, other than the US would be capable of this - well! France, Germany, Denmark, Australia etc etc?

[Sun Who]

Quote: How many other countries, other than the US would be capable of this - well! France, Germany, Denmark, Australia etc etc? And Canada, who have just declared they will contribute offensive air. All of those countries have further to travel than we do from the UK. I'm afraid I remain deeply saddened by our greatly diminished ability to project air power and am not in the least re-assured by our ability to fly a (small) flight of GR4s from Cyprus to Iraq - absolutely not a slight on the ground and air crews involved.

Sun.

[air pig]

BOAC:

Luftwaffe have difficulty even having serviceable aircraft, french, widely dispersed with Africa. Tansall's in both ageing and A400 not yet in service. No heavy strategic rough field airlift capacity.

[brickhistory]

"What" are you doing is the central question.

That you are doing something is noted.

The end results are still to be determined it appears.

Other potential adversaries around the world are watching the effort it takes you to do this.

And conclusions are being drawn.

Sleep tight.

The same applies to my country's seemingly random as yet unnamed campaign. But the current administration had to be seen doing "something."

Why is beyond me. The old 'vital national interests' piece seems to be missing.

[MSOCS]

Yes. Plenty of other countries could do it with more resources too. Don't forget, France is committed in other parts of the world and yet seemed to conduct strikes before the UK.

[MPN11]

Many Nations 'can', but there are inevitable political, domestic and fiscal factors at play.

Taking your first post ... "How many other countries, other than the US would be capable of this?" ... the answer is MANY. It's just that the US (aka The World's Policeman) has mechanisms which enable it to somehow wade in everywhere and anywhere, without UN authority or domestic approval [unlike UK].

I wish the the UK would stop following the US into their latest 'adventure' on autopilot, albeit that the issue is probably nearer home that it is for them.

Another "Zero Exit Strategy" operation begins. How I miss Colin Powell :(

[Hangarshuffle]

Many people might simply answer "you are not doing this at my request". Hard to think of a reason why the average Joe in the street will think this bombing campaign is any benefit to him. I certainly don't.
Point taken about the effort that a smallish military force has to muster to maintain a bombing campaign. But many people must be wondering (a) its comparatively small destructive result against this disparate group ISIS means it has (b) limited value to a bigger picture.

I like many just sit and think of this campaign....what's the point of it?
And frustratingly, I have a horrible feeling this will come back and bite us badly at home in the UK, when some of the ex ISIS/Syrian fighters eventually return here (which they will, they'll be back) unhappy and bitter at the RAFs work, or at anyone who doesn't seem to agree with their mad outlook, back to wreak havoc again, this time at home, on a tube, on a train or bus...that's why so many British people here are against it.

[Willard Whyte]

To be honest I am quite happy that someone is bombing the crap out of them. But, I would ensure they didn't enter this country afterwards. It would have me branded a racist, but that wouldn't bother me one iota.

[Bannock]

30,000 IS "soldiers," two per Hilux truck divided by eight Tornados, it's going to take a while...


Now add to that equation, 100,000 quid per Brimstone( daily telegraph figures ).
Defence budget Fu$$$d.:mad:

[Herod]

Like so many, who know better than I, have said, there have to be boots on the ground. But...they need to be local boots. Kurds, Free Syrians, Jordanians, Turks. Our job is to support them, and that's what we're doing. Doing a bit of bombing won't increase the risk at home; they'll be after us regardless. Let's just let the military and intelligence people get on with it.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

And Canada, who have just declared they will contribute offensive air

Um, no we haven't. That is the motion to be put before Parliament on Monday.

[Sun Who]

Um, no we haven't. That is the motion to be put before Parliament on Monday.

Fair point mate, but given the conservative majority in Canada, I think that motion is likely to pass.

Sun.

[barnstormer1968]

Britain and many other European countries have contributed greatly to this campaign. At least five hundred UK fighters are now boots on the ground in ths campaign.
The cost of educating, housing, giving NHS medical care and benefits to some of that group is probably very high indeed so the UK has already spent a lot of money gearing up for this conflict. I just thinks it's lucky that some of them are now finding out first hand what their hard earned taxes have been used for by the MOD :)

Where Britain is failing IMHO is trying to react to ISIS exactly how ISIS want us to by treating this conflict as a 'police action' where minimal force is the prime mover.
Brimstone looks sexy on TV news clips taking out ONE vehicle. A MOAB elsewhere could be dropped almost at random and create a much higher casualty rate and instill more fear than a little pop gun missile designed to leave bystanders alive and well.

[TURIN]

At least five hundred UK fighters are now boots on the ground in ths campaign.

On whose side? :sad::suspect:

[BEagle]

Certainly a GBU-43/B 'MOAB' would have a significant effect on the worthless scum and their pick up trucks....

The more of these stone age savages who are left splattered across the desert the better. No matter what the cost, they have to be eliminated. Permanently.

[langleybaston]

Amen to that.

[rh200]

Like so many, who know better than I, have said, there have to be boots on the ground. But...they need to be local boots. Kurds, Free Syrians, Jordanians, Turks. Our job is to support them,

I sort of disagree, I think that to clean the area out, and get back to some resemblance of control there needs to be a large professional western force.

The only way to regain control is with a large campaign with all the sustained boots on the ground and logistical support which go with it.

Though some of the surrounding countries have such forces (to what degree is to be debated), the political reality of operating in Sunni areas is problematic.

Having a pile of Westerners go in defeat ISIS (relatively speaking), followed by a large force of peace enforcers from surrounding countries would be the best bet.

A sort of bad cop good cop thing. It is likely the majority od Sunni's don't like ISIS, but also don't like being "occupied". So you need to decrease the annoyance factor.

[barnstormer1968]

TURIN

Do you really need to ask which side the 500 from the UK are on?

Have you not noticed them boasting on TV/the Internet that they wish to have the chance to take on British forces on the ground, or that they have beheaded an innocent non combatant.

[air pig]

If ISIS attack Turkey, we may all get to find out if we can deploy. I feel an Article 5 of the NATO Treaty being played here.:uhoh:

[ShyTorque]

Time to parachute in our "Middle East Peace Envoy".

You know, the one who described the draw down of UK military forces as "The Peace Dividend".

[air pig]

I thought the so called 'Peace Dividend' started under John Major and the Wall falling.

'Middle East peace envoy' can we just omit the parachute please

[Typhoon93]

ShyTorque, the irony wasn't lost on me either!

[pax britanica]

What we really need in this situation is a strong determined secularist leader in the region, perhaps Iraq would be best . Ideally one with a modern strong well equipped military , good security forces and a determination to stamp out radical islamist behaviour including not being too squeamish about what sort of weaponry he could use to do it.

Someone like that , who looked good in uniform, a beret and large moustache would be ideal although we might have to turn a nelsonian blind eye to some slightly more excessive actions and lack of respect for human rights.

However if it were possible to find such a character I am sure he would be able to deal with these scum and help the world as well as his own regime in say Iraq.

is this a credible idea or has its time passed?

[Hangarshuffle]

Lose interest in a war they are supposed to be fighting as quickly as this? The "air war" the RAF is waging has slipped off the news already, at least that can be the gained impression looking at the online newspapers (all I've got in way of media).
Why is this?
Why a lack of interest in the UK public?
Or does everyone think its just a "phoney war"? Not a "real" war? The scale being too small in comparison to more recent times?
I find it strange. Even callous. No doubt the real bombs falling are killing and maiming someone, somewhere.
I sort of sense (and I've nothing to really base this upon) that public support for the campaign is weak, and somehow wont last.
Have the UK public finally become indifferent>? Or they sense fighting terrorism futile?

[smujsmith]

Given the way their hostages are dealt with, I'm glad that the dithering buffoons in Downing Street have seen the light, and at least allowed some of our finest to participate. Eventually they will realise that the only way of sorting the creeps out will be boots on the ground. I can't think of a current MP who would have the cojones to support, let alone proffer such a policy. Perhaps it might be their worry of the reaction of their imported voters, at such a proposition. Whatever, I suspect that the current bunch see this more as a "media coup" than a balanced military decision.

Smudge:ok:

[Heathrow Harry]

If IS are such a danger to everyone thereabouts why do WE have to put troops on thr ground?

Saudi, the UAE, Egypt, Iran all have well armed forces but it always seems to be the west who has to wade in - and start the whole circle over again...........

[Hangarshuffle]

There is very little coverage now of this in the online papers that I see ( I work offshore, have no TV and limited internet) from a point of describing the UKs role in it . Are the UK aircraft and UK forces in general still involved? Are our side (I assume we took a side) winning? (It looks badly as though they aren't).
If the Tornados are still involved, why such lack of interest on this website? if its a clampdown, for security reasons, Persec, all well and good and I will wind it in.
But is it a sign of the times when UK people risk their lives in combat abroad and little interest is expressed, even on Prune?
People say I live in the past and maybe I do, but I just find this...I don't know, disturbing.
What ever is going on, it appears IS are winning and are now right on the border of a NATO ally, looking at the Daily Telegraph. No debate on this at all?
My opinion-think we should still keep out, concentrate our defences around our own small precious group of islands.
Will IS attack Turkey? Is this likely?

[jindabyne]

The more of these stone age savages who are left splattered across the desert the better. No matter what the cost, they have to be eliminated. Permanently.

Entirely agree BEagle.

As for the OP's queries, the RAF is of course fully capable of its present task (in a relatively benign situation), as are most of its allied Air Forces (I won't define the exceptions!). Sadly, its capability of expanding this task, on a much greater scale, in a more threatening environment, with sustenance, is unarguably, other than as a minor US helper, no longer possible - regardless of the UK Defence Secretary's belief (ref his Party Conf speech)!! Perhaps some would say, like it or not, that's where we are, or have been driven/let down over the past decade or two! My comments are politically directed.

[nutnurse]

Perish the thought of spreading Ebola. What a wicked thing to to think, NN. I should be ashamed of myself...:=

[Whenurhappy]

What we really need in this situation is a strong determined secularist leader in the region... Ideally one with a modern strong well equipped military , good security forces and a determination to stamp out radical islamist behaviour including not being too squeamish about what sort of weaponry he could use to do it.

Someone like that , who looked good in uniform, a beret and large moustache would be ideal although we might have to turn a nelsonian blind eye to some slightly more excessive actions and lack of respect for human rights.

Kemal Ataturk perhaps?

[rh200]

Can any other country......

What drop milllions of dollars of bombs from the relative safety of 40 thousand feet to make virtually no difference to the overall strategic situation?

What we really need in this situation is a strong determined secularist leader in the region

No what we need to do is stop dictating western values of conflict and resolution to these countries governments. What we need to do is take our gloves off and stop fluffing around.

[tartare]

Hangarshuffle - I wonder if the lack of coverage is due to several issues.
Purely air-based campaigns can be difficult for media organisations to cover - especially TV broadcasters.
In the case of fast jet operations, they are entirely dependent on the air-force concerned releasing either Go-Pro footage from inside the cockpit (aka the excellent shots being shown here in Oz of the Super Hornet drivers flying) on board recordings of weapons hitting targets (which CDF Mark Binskin has specifically said the RAAF will not be releasing "it's not a video game; people are dying" was his quote), or the odd shot of fast jets gassing up from a tanker.
Getting in on the ground to verify battle damage appears to be particularly difficult here, given that journalists venturing into IS held areas end up getting their heads cut off.
I also wonder whether the airstrikes are proving as effective as quickly as had been hoped - even though the public had been warned this will be a long hard slog - there seems to have been very little public discussion of any progress made at all.
In short - there appears very little new material being released on a day to day basis.
So from an Editors point of view, it simply slips down the running order...
That's not to say I don't agree with previous posters that we should be in there killing IS.
Mrs T works in the media biz.
She showed me a shocking video last night of a row of innocent little kids, sat down in a row as if they were sitting on a school mat... before some IS pieces of sh!t shot them all in the back of the head.
You won't see that on your nightly news.
I had tears in my eyes.

[Landroger]

Who is funding these Mad Mullah's? Can't we bomb them too? If there wasn't any money, the Mullah's wouldn't find it quite so easy to bamboozle some addled teenager from Dudley or West Bromwich into being cannon fodder for their insane and frankly evil Leaders.

I'm not suggesting that the fighters are doing it for money. After all they want to be martyred and in a way I'm glad that the Royal Air Force are dedicated to servicing that outcome, but these tw@ts came out of nowhere and suddenly have enough guns, ammunition and stores to frighten the juice out of the Iraqi Army. I believe that's where they got the heavy banging machinery?

Who is paying them and for the kit?

Roger

[Hangarshuffle]

Good answer that from Tartare, yes agree and I wouldn't like to see that sort of thing on the TV news or elsewhere. Sad beyond belief.
Landoger other posters have indicated the money for this madness comes via the richer Arabian Gulf states. Its just beyond belief to me. I truly wish all our service people whoever they are, a safe return.
Couldn't think of a more opposite view for anyone returning to the UK who has been a fighter for any side in that region. Yet another unsolvable problem for the UK, what to do with the returnees?

[Above The Clouds]

A big bucket of sunshine could be the answer.

[Courtney Mil]

...I guess you mean bucket. Well, it's certainly one idea.

[Above The Clouds]

CM
...I guess you mean bucket. Well, it's certainly one idea.


I did but was thinking of something else while typing :O amended accordingly.

[Courtney Mil]

...you mean your mind wasn't focussed on PPRuNe? Unbelievable!!! :ok: