It would appear the Tristars are off to the States

[NutLoose]

see

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=598469643597773&id=275486342562773

[bcgallacher]

Worked with Tristars with RB211 524 in Saudi then with 22B - Every pilot that flew them loved them. To maintain them was a different story - required much more attention than a 747,accessibility was poor,hydraulic fittings a nightmare. The APU was an abortion and did not like high ambient temperatures. Pneumatic ducting was fragile and they required a large spares holding. Did more gear swings (retraction tests) than with any other aircraft - usually after a phase control valve change. A very comfortable aircraft to fly in but why anybody would want to operate them now I do not know. If they do get into service it will not be for long.

[salad-dodger]

yes Nuts, you started a thread on the subject in May:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/539733-they-live-fly-another-day-raf-tristars-appear-have-been-sold.html

S-D

[NutLoose]

Yes but they have now been marked up with US N Numbers and the RAF stuff painted over, you wouldn't do that unless they were moving.

[thegypsy]

A shame 411A is no longer with us as he would be in his element over this.

[salad-dodger]

Yes but they have now been marked up with US N Numbers and the RAF stuff painted over, you wouldn't do that unless they were moving.
or you wanted to sell the parts from an aircraft off the civil register?

S-D

[NutLoose]

To who? who operates them?

[Rhino power]

This is who have registered them... :::: CSDS Aircraft Sales and Leasing. :::: (http://www.csdsaircraft.com/aircrafts_available.html)

-RP

[Old Fella]

Not only the pilots loved them , most FE's thought they were pretty good as well. Going into the B747 was like getting back into a dog kennel after being in the L1011.

[Brian W May]

Yep, must admit the Tristar was the best 'office' for me (FE), by a country mile.

Enjoyed AAR too, with the highly modified fuel panel.

[Onceapilot]

Well ballacher, you must be talking about a different aircraft? The TriStar APU in RAF service was a fantastic bit of kit.
Good luck to these jets if they get to fly again. Pity they are gone.:ouch: But hey! Whats a few £Bn wasted on a new fleet that should not have been needed yet...not that we could do with VFM or anything!:oh:

OAP

[fergineer]

Gotta agree best flight deck for FE's by far

[Onceapilot]

Best 500,000lb class aircraft ever!:D

OAP

[Wander00]

Probably a stupid question but where do they find civilian Tri* rated pilots for the ferry flights?

[bcgallacher]

Onceapilot - you must have been involved with some really bad APUs if you consider the Tristar unit to be a good one - it's one good point was that it was easy to change. The GTCP 660 in the 747 was far better. All the components could be replaced without dropping the unit and were easily accessible. It also has 2 generators - (most operators.) The Tristar speed and pneumatic control systems were unreliable I could go on and on!

[Onceapilot]

Why ballacher, do you belong to the ranks of the "slag the TriStar gang"? :) What was your military type background if you don't mind saying?

OAP

[ShotOne]

"Best 500,000lb class aircraft ever..??" Really OAP? That's a big claim. I'm emphatically NOT in the slag the Tristar gang but it had become economically unviable for the job it was designed for even when the RAF bought them. That's the reason it was so cheap.

[Onceapilot]

Of course it is a big claim. It is my opinion, based on two decades of experience with it and, its superb safety record.:D
Thankyou, Mr Lockheed !:ok:

OAP

[West Coast]

Probably a stupid question but where do they find civilian Tri* rated pilots for the ferry flights?

Wondered the same. The Sands Hotel corporation in Las Vegas operated two -1011's up until recently (now in storage) so perhaps they might have had the personnel required.

[Al R]

When they were flown into Abingdon 30+ years ago, I seem to remember someone telling me that a few French pilots ferried them in gear down all the way, without proper comms etc - they were cleared for the one flight only due to their slightly precarious condition, having been laid up for so long. Any truth in that?

[chevvron]

I remember the first RAF one coming to Farnborough (still in BA markings) to get its IR signature analysed. They had great fun doing a series of low passes at high speed (about 200ft agl)

[Davef68]

When they were flown into Abingdon 30+ years ago, I seem to remember someone telling me that a few French pilots ferried them in gear down all the way, without proper comms etc - they were cleared for the one flight only due to their slightly precarious condition, having been laid up for so long. Any truth in that?

The Trijets? Did they not come straight out of BA service? (Certainly the first few on RAF ops had BA colours and crew!)

You may be thinking on the ex-BA VC10s, which were flown to Filton from Abingdon for conversion to K4 in that state.

The Tanker Conversions (http://www.vc10.net/History/tanker_conversions.html)

[bcgallacher]

Onceapilot The relevance of my military experience escapes me when applied to Tristar APUs. I maintained Tristars from 1981 and ended up operating some of the last in service. I am not a Tristar knocker - as I stated,aircrew loved them ,a comfortable aircraft to fly in but maintenance wise it was a very difficult aircraft to keep serviceable. When I was assigning manpower for routine checks I always required more manpower for a Tristar than a 747. As an example,the early aircraft cargo doors were so much of a problem later aircraft were fitted with what was known as Boeing doors as they were the same as 747. If experience is relevant - how much maintenance experience as opposed to flying them do you have?

[Typhoon93]

Chevvron, what is "high speed" in multi engine language please?

[The Helpful Stacker]

What would an apparently 21 year old wannabe FJ pilot assume "high speed" is in multi-engine language?

[Typhoon93]

THS,

No clue, although I'd assume somewhere between 60-100 knots at a guess. I don't know a great deal about the large aircraft that the RAF call 'multi-engine'*, hence why I asked a person with experience.


*I don't know a great deal about fast jets either, however I'm not even close to being an expert on anything aviation, never have been, and since there is apparently so much to learn, mostly from aircraft that even if I made it, I would never get to fly, I never will be.

I am, however, not sure why you (and several others) doubt my age. I have nothing to prove to anybody and certainly nothing to gain from lying about my age, or anything else for that matter. Although if you believe that I am the forum member Ronald Reagan, as another member suggested, then I am sure PPRuNe Pop would obliterate that myth in a matter of seconds by confirming that our IP's are different.

[Onceapilot]

Troll away ballacher. For a "not a knocker" you are banging away loud and clear! I suspect you have little or no experience on the RAF TriStar fleet? :bored:

OAP

[Onceapilot]

Oh yes, BTW, The RAF TriStar fleet did not have a "Boeing" anything;).


OAP

[ShotOne]

Disagreeing isn't trolling, oap. His technical comments -and your "best 500,000lb ac " -come to that, don't hinge on RAF service. What experience do you have of any other 500,000lb aircraft?

[Onceapilot]

Please don't lecture me shotty. I am entitled to my opinion thankyou.:ok:
On the other hand, maybe you know a thing or two about Trolls?;)

OAP

[bcgallacher]

Onceapilot - getting a little touchy? You obviously have never been involved in maintaining Tristars - I have and I think I am a little more qualified to comment on their problems than you. I have held maintenance engineers licences - starting with the ARB,Then CAA,FAA A&P finally Easa, from 1965 until 2010 when I retired.There is a world of difference between flying an aircraft and maintaining it.I would not be so arrogant as to comment on a large aircrafts flying characteristics as I only ever had a PPL.

[Alex Whittingham]

The fastest and lowest TriStar flypast I was involved in (not me flying, I was calling out the radio height from the RHS) was 320KT and 80' radio. Not massively fast by fast jet standards but I always imagined it was impressive from the ground, that airplane displaced a lot of air.

[GreenKnight121]

Apparently, OAP believes that as soon as the Tristars transferred from BA to RAF all the systems magically became something different than they were in civvy service, the APU transformed into a completely different design, and so on.

In reality, other than comma and other military-only systems, I doubt anything was upgraded - much less replaced with different units - thus bcgallacher's extensive experience of civvy Tristars & B747s is about 95% relevant to the Tristars operated by the RAF.


But of course, in the blinkered and self-superior world of certain posters here, that experience is meaningless as it wasn't gained while under a service oath.

[Al R]

Davef68,

Thanks, that could be it - it could have been the 10s, but my time holding at Abingdon pre-dated the shuttle trips to Filton. The incident of the crew's food poisoning and multiple flame outs from Bombay was almost funny to read, I imagine this unsettled a few passengers.. :eek:

Prompted by a shout from the captain, purser Harry Everitt rushed to the toilet and hammered on the door for the FE to return to the flight deck.

[servodyne]

Having flown RAF Tristars I can say the aircraft was a pleasure to operate as a Pilot or Flight Engineer, Some systems were a little harder to maintain but that was the price you paid for an all electric aircraft that was (in the 1980s) pushing the edge of the technological envelope, it was far more advanced that a 747 and at times, you paid for that edge.

In the 10 years I operated the Tristar I never had an APU problem (not saying that didn't happen to other guys), that may well have been due to the excellent Engineers we had at 216, I know those guys worked their ar**s off to keep our aircraft serviceable.
Like any aircraft there were pros and cons to its operation but the Tristar will always have a special place in my heart and if some dude wants a Pilot or a Flight Eng to fly the ones out in the States I have a list of guys available....

[topgas]

I recall flying to the Falklands in 1984/5 in a Tristar with PanAm logos on the seat belts. The in flight entertainment system was still installed, but there was some issue about funding to process the headsets.

[Stanwell]

.
I seem to remember that TWO of them were ex PanAm.

[LowObservable]

There may be a perspective issue here.

Anyone who flew the TriStar for two decades with the RAF did so, for most of that time, in a service whose other large aircraft had their design roots in the 1950s (VC10 and C-130) or 1940s (Nimrod and Belslow). 1968-launch technology looked pretty good by comparison, I'm sure.

Conversely, if you worked on TriStars in the civvy world at the same time, your benchmarks were increasingly set by post-ETOPS twins with better reliability and onboard diagnostics, and the 747-400, which incorporated a metric eff-ton of lessons from earlier versions. In which case the TriStar could seem a little dated.

[Sook]

There were 3 ex-PanAms, those with the tails beginning ZE.