B206 stick "as if one stirs a bucket of concrete"

[Reely340]

That statement came from a buddy of mine (newbie pilot like me) who had the joy of recently comparing BO105 and B206 one right after the other. Being a BO fan he didn't like the 206, because the stick was really hard to move around, although all frictions were open.

Given that both BO and Bell have hydraulic boosters(?) for cyclic control how can that be? Is that a sign of neglect or "relaxed maintenance" or just a hard to embrace "feature" of 206 controls one has to get used to?

My experience is limited to the BO but personally I find her cyclic to be extremely sensitive, to the point of making it tricky to steer along calm, in non-roller coaster mode. A friend of ours (BO FI) admits to steer her only via trim, if he wants a smooth ride (so much for helos not flying stable on trim only).

So how should a B206's cyclic feel like, compared to other types?

[Ascend Charlie]

Should have very little feel at all. If left to one side, it will continue to fall. Can fly it with one finger on the tippy-top.

It will certainly feel sloppy compared to the BO/BK, and will take just that extra bit of time for the fuselage attitude to respond, but still a delight to fly.

[helimutt]

I dont remember a Jet Ranger cyclic as being like stirring concrete. May need to have it looked at???

[driftwood1]

Clean the hydraulic filters

[Matari]

Not good. As driftwood says, is the hydraulic bypass filter button popped? Hydraulics "On?" Check the servo pins, are they free? Somebody leave a rag in the broomcloset? Maybe they are flying a 47D1 and not a 206?

[206 jock]

Perhaps one's butler is travelling in steerage and jamming one's controls?

Honestly, one couldn't make it up, could one?

[OvertHawk]

Like others have said - if the stick is "really hard to move around" then something is wrong and it needs fixed. :ooh:

OH

[Two's in]

Not overlooking that a rigid rotor is by nature more responsive than an articulated rotor, allowing for AFCS, SAS etc control law modifications.

[Reely340]

Thx a lot for that profound feedback! Presumably PPRuNe/Rotorheads is the only forum on the net where one gets that much information, fast, right on topic w/o inadvertedly being abused as starting piont of some flame war.

Peter.

[Saint Jack]

I once worked, as a mechanic, on a B206 operation and we later acquired a BO-105. The pilot comments regarding the respective cyclic controls were very similar to what 'Reely340' has reported here. Assuming his buddy is only slightly exaggerating then there is nothing to worry about - that is the way each helicopter is.


IF the JetRanger cyclic control really is 'heavy', then I suggest having a mechanic check the cyclic minimum friction IAW the Bell 206 MM. Other checks are, a) the servo pins (as mentioned by another poster) are they free to rotate with friction 'off' - use a light lubricant if they are stiff - DO NOT remove them, and b) check for excessive swashplate friction.


Problems with the hydraulic system pressure will also affect the collective and anti-torque controls - is this the case?


Let us know what you find.

[vaqueroaero]

That doesn't sound right at all. One thing to try: I have flown a few helicopters where if the cyclic friction is taken all the way off it actually feels as though there is friction on it. So try this. Remove the friction all the way and move the cyclic. Then add a little friction and see if it loosens up. Sounds backwards but in some cases it works.

[Gomer Pylot]

On a 206, if you loosen the cyclic friction and then turn the knob as far off as you can, so that it is very tight, it will increase the friction. It's designed that way. You need to loosen it so that it's almost against the stop, but not quite. The cyclic should then have no feel at all, and will fall against the stops if you let it. If that doesn't happen, then the rigging is wrong. I've seen them where the minimum friction was set too high, and the cyclic was hard to move even with no friction. After discussion with the mechanic, who insisted it was within limits, he reset it to the minimum limits and it was acceptable. Having a cyclic that is hard to move with no friction, properly adjusted, is not acceptable.

[albatross]

Uniball?
I have seen that problem if not propery shimmed.

[longbox]

I have a lot of hours on the 206 it should not feel heavy, put on a hydraulic rig run at 600 psi and have your engineering company take a look. It is the best way to be sure

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

DAMN it ... Albatross you beat me to it :D

.... if the machine has recently come out of maintenence ... it is just possible that in an effort to get the preload correct on a machine with a worn out of round uniball it may well have been incorrectly shimmed ... it happens easily.

The normal feel of a 206 cyclic is more like flying abowl of oatmeal than of concrete .... (my opinion of course).

:E

[Agaricus bisporus]

Of the dozens of jetrangers I've flown none had any stiffness in the cyclic at all. I'd say stirring a bucket of oatmeal is overstating it. They always felt totally free to me.

If I felt a control restriction I'd want it looked at before flying it.

[helispeediii]

as previous friction off should be like a straw in a milk shake , don't fly it until your happy with it

[Boudreaux Bob]

All Friction "Off"....Loose, Floppy, and words like that should apply. One should have to APPLY Friction to feel any resistance to Cyclic Movement.

Until the Engineers can achieve that level of freedom in the Cyclic.....Park it!

[AAKEE]

All Friction "Off"....Loose, Floppy, and words like that should apply. One should have to APPLY Friction to feel any resistance to Cyclic Movement.

Until the Engineers can achieve that level of freedom in the Cyclic.....Park it!

...as long as the HYD OFF-switch isn't in the OFF position...

[Boudreaux Bob]

What is the "Normal" position of that Switch during Flight?

The OP stated.....


That statement came from a buddy of mine (newbie pilot like me) who had the joy of recently comparing BO105 and B206 one right after the other. Being a BO fan he didn't like the 206, because the stick was really hard to move around, although all frictions were open.

Given that both BO and Bell have hydraulic boosters(?) for cyclic control how can that be?

[SuperF]

Normal condition for the 206 in flight should be Hyd ON.

[Tony Mabelis]

I like it!!:D
Tony

[Boudreaux Bob]

I suppose we have to declare the Rotor Blades have to be turning at near Normal RPM as well....to keep some nit pickers happy. They will have to decide if that is due to the Engine running or if the aircraft is in auto-rotation.

[lamanated]

with friction off it should be light, if not, you could even disconnect at the swashplate and feel the range of motion feel , I have found overspray on balls at the monkey knuckle or if it doesnt have duals, over on the part where the cyclic should go into, there is a piece with 2 balls in that that gets gummed up or has overspray on it
if you want to test hydraulics, without the engine running, you can take the hydro pack off and run it with a drill spinning a 1/4" drive bit.