Headset on, loudspeaker off or on?

[9 points]

For many years I have flown Airbus aircraft with the policy that when the headsets are put on the speakers are turned off.
I find the other pilots speaker actually makes it hard for me to hear through my headset, I believe this is due to wave interference or perhaps some other factor. In any case, whatever the cause I find that I have better interpretation of the coms with the speakers off when the headsets are on.

Recently I've been told that the Airbus manuals state that the speakers should be set on, 1 o'clock, during pre flight and then left on for the whole flight.

While I have seen the section that states that the speakers should be set on I don't believe they must be left on at all times. Why would there be an off position if it were not to be used? However I can't find anything in the manuals to support my point of view.

I'm aware of various arguments to support the case to leave them on but as I said I find this interferes with my understanding of ATC, not to mention the extra noise and resulting headache.

Can anyone provide me with a reference to support turning them off when headsets are on?

[FlyingStone]

There's a reason why each pilot has it's own Audio Control Panel - so he can adjust stuff as he likes/needs. Lucky for me (and many others I believe), Boeing isn't nitpicking about "mandatory for speaker volume knob to be set to 1 o'clock position" in its manuals :D

[9 points]

Really.
Is this just another opportunity to point out how Boeing does things better?

If I had the money to pay for my own flying I'd fly a Boeing but if I was that rich I wouldn't be an Airline pilot and I suspect you are also not that rich.

It amazes me how small minded people claim for themselves the achievements of others.

You didn't design the Boeing! So stop acting as though you did! Stop basking in the glory that you don't have any right to claim as your own.

Arrogant and ignorant. Probably think your a great pilot too don't you.

Would anyone care to offer a constructive and mature response?

[zlin77]

Maybe….it is recommended to turn speakers on to a lowish volume setting, so that if headsets are removed in the cruise the low volume chatter will alert the pilots to TURN-UP the volume…there have been some incidents in recent years where the crew have removed headsets and have forgotten to turn on the speakers (due to fatigue, distraction etc.) which in turn leads to serious problems with ATC, intercepts with fighters etc…….

[9 points]

Yep thats correct but even on a low volume it still makes it hard for me to hear the coms via the headset.
35 years flying have had an effect on my hearing and it's not a good one.

I am aware of many arguments in favour of not turning the speakers off but I'm asking for assistance in finding material that supports my side of the issue. Specifically any authoritative articles or FCOM/FCTM references etc.

Thanks

[FlyingStone]

Is this just another opportunity to point out how Boeing does things better?

The main point was to make you see that there is a world outside of manuals. Sometimes you find something that works for you that is not exactly as written in the manual - be it seating position, speaker volume, screen brightness, etc.

We are not all the same and I doubt aircraft manufacturer (be it Boeing, Airbus or anyody else) can come up with - in this case - a speaker volume settings that works for everybody and for all possible situations.

Personally, I normally use headset only on one ear, so speaker volume is set to somewhat mid-range. If I use it on both ear, I turn it off completely and if I don't use headset, I increase the speaker volume.

Again, it's not rocket science. Just try some different settings and see with which setting you feel most comfortable.

[9 points]

Flying stone. When you have finished misquoting me and trying to MAKE me see things your way you might like to stop and consider my question instead of patronisingly assuming a position of superiority.
Putting aside your distasteful tone I can see that it is worth trialing your approach, so I will.

I'm still keen to hear from people who may have a contribution that supports my basic preference, with a written reference if possible.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I doubt you'll find one. Use your common sense.

[Hotel Charlie]

Flying stone. When you have finished misquoting me and trying to MAKE me see things your way you might like to stop and consider my question instead of patronisingly assuming a position of superiority.
Putting aside your distasteful tone I can see that it is worth trialing your approach, so I will.
Jeeeze.....don't have a cow man! Just use the frikkin thing the way you want. If you've been doing this for 35 years you should have figured it out by now :ugh:

[9 points]

Lord S: You're probably right but I thought I'd try anyway.

Hotel C: Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Seriously, half you guys don't bother to read a question do you.

It's like on the TV shows where the lawyer is arguing in court. He has a better chance of winning the court case if he can refer to a precedent or an article of law. So it is when dealing with other pilot colleagues, if you can back up your point of view with an existing SOP it makes it easier to refute an opposing point of view.
I am not lacking in common sense and I am not unaware of the various arguments for and against. I am aware of my prerogative as PIC to make decisions. However I run an inclusive cockpit and am team focused. I like to explore minor issues to the fullest extent. I enjoy this stuff! I'm not stressed out about this, I'm actually loving it.
So just chill out you guys.

Once again, if anyone can contribute as per my original post, I'm keen to read it.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Recently I've been told that the Airbus manuals state that the speakers should be set on, 1 o'clock, during pre flight and then left on for the whole flight.


These people who told you that, did they, perchance, show you where in "Airbus manuals" it says that? Because I don't even see the word "speaker" or "speakers" anywhere in my manuals. It does say this:



The flight crew must use the headset:
. From the ENGINE START phase until the TOP OF CLIMB phase
. From The TOP OF DESCENT phase until the aircraft is parked.



But no mention of speaker use at all, much less mandatory speaker use.

[Hotel Charlie]

However I run an inclusive cockpit and am team focused.

But of course you are ...... as per SOP I presume ;)

[9 points]

Amadius. I could only find one reference in the FCOM, in the pre flight set up it does actually say to turn them on and set them to 1 o'clock. But that is the only reference I could find.
No they did not show me any reference to support their position.

Hotel C. You really don't like SOP's do you. No SOP can replace airmanship but the SOP's are the fruit of decades of trial and error. They can't be perfect but sticking closely to them most of the time makes flying safer and much easier for all, especially the poor old FO's. (I did 10,000 hrs in the right seat so I believe I'm entitled to offer an opinion there.) We really should embrace the SOP culture with humility, work within the system not outside it, if we think an SOP is wrong seek to have it changed not simply ignore it etc.
The important thing is to seek to constantly learn from others and one way we do that is by learning to follow SOP's (most of the time) as they are full of the contributions of others over many years.
So let go of your anger my son, come into the light, let go of your hate, the dark side leads to pain, Luke, I am your father :-o

[Amadis of Gaul]

Out of curiosity, which Airbus model?

[Hotel Charlie]

Hotel C. You really don't like SOP's do you.
Wrong! It's a very good tool and makes work/ team work in the cockpit a lot easier but I'm no salve and common sense is a good thing :ok:

Ps I've been doing this for 30 plus years as well ...... oh and of course I do fly a Boeing

[Mach E Avelli]

Is this Airbus thing a mandatory procedure or merely a recommendation? Depends on the wording. The word 'should' is not quite the same as 'must' and perhaps some allowance needs to be made for French to English interpretation.
Also, in many jurisdictions an operator may vary procedures - plenty do. The best statement I ever saw was in an American FCOM where they said that some SOPS had been changed from Mr Boeing's as a result of operational experience, FAA was aware of these changes, and the airline accepted full responsibility for any damage resultant from changes they had made. Most of it was minor stuff such as perhaps doing some pre start checks in a sequence more suited to their dispatch arrangements.
However, your airline may not be willing to change any words in any manual, perhaps because of legal or (more likely) cost constraints.
So, if it really is as prescriptive as you believe, you are stuck with whatever Airbus say. What would I do? Step one would be minor civil disobedience, like telling the F/O to (please) turn off his bloody speaker. Of course you, or your F/O, may be far too law abiding to even consider such a heinous act.
If that is the case and interference is causing communication problems for you while adopting SOP, write it up in the tech log. And keep writing it up. And again and again - every time it pisses you off. Because it would seem that it is a design issue. Or simply some bored Airbus back room boffin having nothing better to do than write anal procedures to annoy pilots.

[9 points]

Amadis. Currently an A320 in Australia. But I was on the 330/340 in the sand pit and 320 in Europe before and I think they all had the same procedure.

Hotel C. OK nice one. I wish I had a Boeing job.

Mach. Bloody good post.

Fellas I'm off on a trip along the east coast of Australia, should be a lovely day out. So I'll check back in a few days…

Cheers

[Amadis of Gaul]

Interesting. I'm on the 320, nothing in my company stuff, nothing in my Airbus manual either, granted the latter is from a few updates back.

[autoflight]

Belt and braces seems like liability reduction by airbus.

[Bus Driver Man]

It is also written in the Airbus FCOM that you have to adjust your seat just before performing the "Before start checklist" and requesting the start clearance.

Does this mean that I am not allowed to adjust the seat for the rest of the flight?
And what happens if I adjust my seat before the FCOM tells me to adjust it?


What happened to common sense? Whoever told you that you have to keep your loudspeaker at the 1 o'clock position when you wear the headset is clearly lacking it.

[yoyonow]

Apart from common sense:

PRO-NOR-SOP-Before pushback or start-Before start clearance

:8

[Metro man]

Leaving the speaker volume up too high can result in feed back through the mic, switching the speakers off completely isn't a good idea as described already. I turn the volume well down but to a level where I would still notice a transmission.

[Aluminium shuffler]

The manuals are tailored to the operator, which is why they list the operator's airframe serial numbers and reflect the equipment and options on your specific aircraft. That also means that where there is no technical objection, the manufacturers' manuals will reflect company procedures. SO, it is more likely a company policy than an Airbus one.

By the way, I think you owe Flyingstone a big apology - he made a mildly mocking comment about an authority figure (in this instance AB, but it could have been anyone) telling you how to suck eggs, and you went nuclear. The arrogance, pomposity and attitude was all yours, not his. If you feel the need to rigidly apply such pointless SOP and enjoy debating such issues just for the thrill, then your 35 years have been wasted.

[TwoTone-7]

Alleged reasoning is in emer elec config, headsets will not work. Only the loudspeakers.

[9 points]

Amadius. The manuals do vary from one airline to another, as mentioned in several posts.

Bus driver. That's a great example and I will use it. Thanks very much!

Al shuf. He started it so the attitude was not all mine. You might think my response was excessive but I don't. :ok: Oh and clearly you don't read posts thoroughly either as you have joined the group who are criticising me for things I'm not guilty of. Go back and read my original post again. :ugh:

[RTO]

SOP's are the fruit of decades of trial and error. They can't be perfect but sticking closely to them most of the time makes flying safer and much easier for all
Not necessarily as cronyism is the way into flight Ops management, and positions like these attract the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Most flightops management I have seen has been full of inept buddys that where full of themselves. No good sop is born in enviroments like that. They do serve as a comic relief on the line though. The downfall of the professional pilot will be the death of common sense. Having manuals telling you the volume button should be at 1 o clock is ridicolus.

[oceancrosser]

Like the thread starter I prefer to have the speakers off when wearing headsets, which is pretty much throughout the flight. However I can't for the life of me understand why Boeing thinks we hear with our knees? Why isn't the speaker in the ceiling?

[misd-agin]

"You might think my response was excessive but I don't"




And that gets to the heart of the problem.

[BARKINGMAD]

"However I can't for the life of me understand why Boeing thinks we hear with our knees? Why isn't the speaker in the ceiling?"

I could swear the last 12 years on Boings (737s), that the speaker was somewhere above and behind me, with my seat correctly adjusted IAW SOPs pre-departure etc etc.

Couldn't really care where it was, it got my attention when selected for the purpose, but I think headset on BOTH ears is the safest way for audio mixing and hearing protection.

Any flight management who decides to be prescriptive in this needs to get out more, maybe try flying on the line 20/28 days?

RTO says it very capably about this breed of allegedly humanoids, who are doing more damage to the industry which took soooh long to become reasonably safe but thanks to their efforts is going backwards. :rolleyes:

[Uplinker]

TwoTone-7

Alleged reasoning is in emer elec config, headsets will not work. Only the loudspeakers.


Hey, I didn't know this ! I can't check it right now - do you have any reference?

[lexxie747]

Quote: i like to explore minor issues to the fullest extent.......

that is exactly what it is, minor issue, when you explore it a little more, you can only come to one conclusion, it is a non-issue.
Can't wait for you to come up with a question on a major issue.
Funny thing is, when i climb in my everetty thing tonight, every airbus i pass,whether it be coming at me or going the same way, i shall ask myself, does he have his speaker up, or down.... funny that.