Javelin anyone?

[163627]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/355934/Sale-of-Gloster-Javelin-_FAW-4-_aircraft.pdf

[NutLoose]

And Helicopters anyone :)

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/acquisitions/Collections_Review_Disposals_Helicopters_Sept_2014.pdf

And some artwork for the mess?

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/acquisitions/Bentley_Priory_Fine_%20Art_%20Sept_%202014.pdf

[Wander00]

Maybe the Al Deere picture should be offered to Cranwell, where he was Assistant Commandant in the 60s, or to his son in NZ

[Willard Whyte]

That short of cash huh?

[NutLoose]

I think they are the ones returned to Bentley Prior on loan.

These are possibly the Helicopters held in the RAF Reserve store

Royal Air Force Museum Reserve Collection - Images | Celebrity and red carpet pictures (http://piqtured.photoshelter.com/gallery/Royal-Air-Force-Museum-Reserve-Collection/G0000NQwynk71Xxo/C0000A1gVDsmB8gM)

Some interesting items there.

[Fonsini]

It always amazed me that the Javelin could leave the ground with that "doorstep sandwich" of a wing.

What exactly is Coolanol 25 anyway ?

[Lima Juliet]

Its a coolant for the RADAR...

[DCThumb]

My instructor at Swinderby described the Javelin as 'incorporating every aerodynamic fault known to man'! He insisted that the only reason he got in was that when asked at Biggin Hill what aircraft he wanted to fly, he said 'Javelin' - they didn't get many volunteers seemingly!!!

[stevef]

Blimey - XA634 - I well remember that from my Colerne Museum days in the 70s! There was another Javelin there too, XH892 if I remember correctly.
I've just had a 40-year flashback of that typically British cockpit aroma when sliding back its canopy on a hot summer's day. Almost enough to get drunk on. :8

[NutherA2]

XH892 is another one in my log book, it was J on 23 Sqn at Coltishall & Leuchars and is now an exhibit at the Norfolk & Suffolk Aviation Museum at Flixton.

[CoffmanStarter]

Not an aeroplane to deliberately spin I would have thought ...

[NutherA2]

Spinning, stalling & "Aerobatics in the looping plane" were all prohibited; the aircraft was also subject to a minimum of 150 KIAS except "on the final approach to land". By and large it was not one of history's greatest dog-fighters.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Not an aeroplane to deliberately spin I would have thought ...

I once had a physics teacher who had been a Javelin nav in a previous life. He used to tell a (tall?) story about a Javelin in the Far East that entered a spin; supposedly unrecoverable in the Javelin, so the nav ejected (can't remember whether it was my physics teacher or one of his colleagues - the memory is fading :\). Once he had gone the aircraft recovered from the spin and the pilot apparently circled the helpless nav as he descended on his chute to be recovered by a helo later.

[cliver029]

Stevef

In the mid sixties the Gliding club used to share the hanger with these aircraft. It is to my eternal regret that I did not take any photos of all the aircraft there when I had the chance, but there were other things on my mind at the time:O

Against a failing memory, I seem to remember it was quite an eclectic mix and I often wonder where they all finished up, a reheated Hunter for goodness sake why did that not get developed, surely it would have knocked the socks of the Lightning? Hat, Coat, door!

C

[LowObservable]

Coolanol 25 is a great name for a cocktail recipe.

[bvcu]

not many left now, hope she gets preserved and put under cover

[Valiantone]

So they currently have run out of operational airframes to flog of and dump, so now have to resort to the family silver....

Granted I reckon that as its been outside for ?? Years its not likely to be in great health?

V1

[Stendec5]

Apparently the cockpits are gutted, but I'd have it in a flash. Always been intrigued by the Jav.
There was a proposed "Thin Wing" Javelin in the pipeline with supersonic capability and a humongous Red Dean AAM under each wing. But it was cancelled (surprise surprise).
Methinks though that we should have gone in with the Canadians and built their excellent Avro Arrow under licence. Could have lead to further Anglo-Canuck
co-operation. There were some promising ideas and talent around then on both sides of the Atlantic.
Just a thought.

[CoffmanStarter]

NutherA2 ...

A thoroughly interesting read :ok:

AP 4491D Pilot's Notes Javelin F. (A.W.) Mk4 - 2nd Edition

AP 4491D Pilots Notes (http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/uk/gloster/javelin/a-p-4491d-pilot-s-notes-javelin-f-a-w-mk4-2nd-edition.html)

Not forgetting the old lady at Manston FAW9 XH764 29 Squadron ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Gloster_Javelin_FAW.9_XH764_29_Sqn_Manston_03.06.71_edited-3.jpg/640px-Gloster_Javelin_FAW.9_XH764_29_Sqn_Manston_03.06.71_edited-3.jpg

Written off 1967. Suffered a heavy landing at Manston, Kent. Damage was only slight but with the impending withdrawal from service of the Javelin XH764 was struck off charge as Cat.5(G/I) and allocated to 7972M.

[thing]

I've just had a 40-year flashback of that typically British cockpit aroma when sliding back its canopy on a hot summer's day. Almost enough to get drunk onAhh, you have me reminiscing now...

I had a look around a Shack at Newark Air Museum recently and as soon as I stepped on board the pong hit me and took me back forty years too! An aroma once experienced never forgotten.

I knew a Javelin nav and I'm sure I remember him telling me that the airbrakes were a thing of wonder and you could descend more or less vertically at idle/idle with full brake.

[gzornenplatz]

Yes you could descend very steeply indeed with full airbrake in the Javelin but they didn't open fully above 535 kts The Pilots' Notes were more detailed than I remember for the Mk9, although the take-off checks had become TAFFIGROSH from TAFFIOH.

[Old Ned]

Why not, worked for the Vulcan!

[sled dog]

Old Ned
I second that, but only if a complete Mk 9 could be found............

[CoffmanStarter]

Has anyone got XH764 in their logbook per chance ?

[Fareastdriver]

[QUOTE] He used to tell a (tall?) story about a Javelin in the Far East that entered a spin[QUOTE]

True story. It happened in India.(?????). In October 1963 the Indians and the Chinese were having a minor punch-up in the Himalayas so as a sign of Commonwealth solidarity a force of Javelins was dispatched with the kind assistance of me, plus squadron members and Valiant tanker aircraft of 90 and 214 Sqns, to provide some all weather capability.

I was sunning myself in the swimming pool in a hotel in Bombay when I heard about it. It meant that there was one less to tank onwards to Singapore.

[Valiantone]

Sadly XH764 fell foul of the One airframe gate guardian per airfield butchering session in 1989/90

I seem to recall the FlatIron had a nasty tendency to burst into flames on start up, and then there was the well known story I remember reading in my Air Training Corps day of the fuel tank incident at Horsham St Faith.

Somewhat distracted by 74 Sqn Hunters dropping all over the place, the 23 Sqn pilot never realised (initially) that the calls from the tower to say that you are on fire were meant for him.

As he was taxiing towards the runway the release pins? for the drop tanks came adrift, and as they had nowhere to go carried on with the jet slowing burrowing into the taxiway and catching fire.

V1

[NutherA2]

G...platz

full airbrake in the Javelin but they didn't open fully above 535 kts
I think there’s a slight confusion of limiting airspeeds here, 535KIAS was the never exceed limit for the aircraft (on account of the risk of elevator flutter); the speed above which the airbrakes would open only partially was more like 450KIAS. Closing the throttles and selecting them out at this speed in level flight gave about a 1G deceleration, which was thoroughly noticeable.


Coffman

XH764 in their logbook per chance?
I can come close with XH763 & 766, if there’s a prize for also rans

[gzornenplatz]

He's right you know! I think it was 430 kts above which they didn't come out at all. Thank you A2 chap.

[Al R]

The Tornado has more than a hint of the Javelin about it.

[gzornenplatz]

I bet you can leap tall buildings at a single bound. And finish the Telegraph crossword in ten minutes.

[NutherA2]

G...platz

Yes to the crosswords but no to the buildings, not even small ones.

[Legalapproach]

The pilot's notes for the Mk 7 state:

"(ii) On selection below 430 knots deceleration is high (about 1G) and immediate.

(iii) Above 430 knots the airbrakes do not open fully and produce only moderate deceleration. As the speed falls to 430 knots however, they open to the full position, with a sudden increase in deceleration. If unexpected, this can be disconcerting"

As for maximum rate of descent:

"throttles closed, airbrakes out and maintain 0.8M/350 knots. These settings will give a rate of descent of approximately 20,000 feet per minute. Some misting up will occur."

[gzornenplatz]

The old lady could exhibit other foibles. A glide descent from 40,000ft after a good cold soak at altitude could cause the fuel crossfeed to freeze up. You could find yourself with an awful lot of Avtur you couldn't get at. Luckily it usually unfroze itself after a time at low level.

[Roadster280]

20K fpm? Something goes wrong at 30K and you could be on the deck within 2 minutes, assuming a suitable airfield was around?

[gzornenplatz]

What passes loosely as my mind must have been wandering. The problem with the frozen crossfeed was because I'd shut an engine down at 40k ( a very economical way of covering 200-odd miles for 500 lbs of fuel) and the frozen crossfeed meant I was unable to relight the engine. Ah well, "Adventure before Dementia".

[CoffmanStarter]

Cracking picture here of 64 Squadron's Javelin flight line at Duxford ... :ok:

Aeroplane Icons : Javelin (https://twitter.com/Aeroplaneicons/status/519624804639313922)

Coff.

[haltonapp]

And the "chiefie" on the wing in his KD greatcoat!

[Lightning5]

Indeed the Jav was prone to start up fires. After start up the procedure was then too have a "shuffty" in the servicing bay between the engines. If all was ok, fasten up the huge panel and carefully back out. I say carefully, as in your path was a 12 in aerial, so standing up too early, it impaled itself between the shoulder blades. Trip too the Med centre, get stitched up, back too the line. 60 Sqn Line at Tengah had quite a few guys with the " Jav scar " me being one of them !!

[Noah Zark.]

As a yoof, I was on the beach at South Shields, in Durham (it was then!) and a flight of 9 Javelins flew northwards, quite low (perhaps 2,000ft.?) just offshore. The noise was unbelievable!

[sled dog]

Coff
I used to have a copy of that pic, because I am on it :O
Never thought I would see it again, having lost my copy years ago.

[CoffmanStarter]

Sled Dog ... What a happy coincidence :ok: