Politics

[nutnurse]

I happened to run into a uniformed F/S yesterday, who said he occasionally lurks here or less frequently the Goat. When I mentioned active participation by his good self he said he was put off by "all the politics", by which I took him to mean current affairs politics rather than Service or forum politics. What do PPRuNers think? Should there be less, more or about the same?

[NutLoose]

The problem there is you can't have one without the other unfortunately.

[nutnurse]

I suppose there's the matter of ad hominem/ad feminam attacks on politicians, like all the wicked things I and others have said about Ms Harpicperson (there I go again).

[Willard Whyte]

Pretty boring, blinkered, and unimaginative to stick rigidly to precisely defined subject matter.

[Hipper]

Seems a bit of weak reasoning. All he has to do is avoid those threads that he finds uncomfortable.


He is of course missing out on all the interesting threads.


As for whether politics should be discussed, surely it can't be avoided. No military force is created in a vacuum. It is created by politics and exists to influence political decisions.

[Just This Once...]

War is simply the continuation of political intercourse with the addition of other means

From some bloke who wrote stuff.

[Lonewolf_50]

That bloke spent some years of his life on military campaigns. Might want to look up the history and experience of the gent in question. He wasn't just an egghead, nor just a theorist.
Of note:
Clausewitz served in the Rhine Campaigns (1793–1794) including the Siege of Mainz, when the Prussian army invaded France during the French Revolution.

The Jena Campaign saw him as aide-de-camp to Prince August. On the losing side of the Battle of Jena-Auerstedt on October 14, 1806 – he was captured, one of the 25,000 prisoners captured that day as the Prussian army disintegrated. He was held prisoner in France from 1807 to 1808.

He served in the Russian army from 1812 to 1813 during Napoleon's Russian Campaign, including the Battle of Borodino.

In 1815 Clausewitz re-entered Prussian service. In von Thielmann's III Corps he was in the Battles of Ligny and Wavre during the Waterloo Campaign in 1815. IIRC, Thielmann's Corps did not reach the battlefield at Waterloo proper, being busy with Marshall Grouchy near Wavre.

Not an armchair general, eh?
Clausewitz had many aphorisms, of which the most famous is that "War is the continuation of Politik by other means" (Politik being variously translated as "policy" or "politics", terms with very different implications), a description that has won wide acceptance.

My military theory courses (at staff collegee) delved deeply into what we thought was or wasn't applicable in his various writings in the modern age.

[Genstabler]

I doubt that he meant party politics. What puts him off is more likely the inter service and intra service politics, wingeing, back-biting and general bloody minded rudeness that goes under the misnomer of banter among some of the PPRune fraternity.

[camelspyyder]

Genstabler - I so agree. I've been waiting to see if some one would see the point. "politics" in this case means the activities of the cliques, bullies, trolls etc who inhabit this sort of message board and make it less enjoyable to participate. over the years I've had 3 different ID's on here because it frequently got TFD when daring to challenge the establishment :ugh:

[Genstabler]

Lonewolf

Indeed. von Clausewitz was a Genstabler!

[Just This Once...]

That bloke spent some years of his life on military campaigns. Might want to look up the history and experience of the gent in question.

Clausewitz served...

My military theory courses (at staff collegee)….

Hello Lonewolf,

On reflection I think he may have been mentioned once or twice at our own humble staff college and perhaps we had to do a bit of military theory with the resident staff professors too!

Thanks for the reminder though!

:ok:

[Krystal n chips]

Ahem....

" stick with Jetblast Krystal, this is a grown ups forum"

But then, time moves on, and....

wingeing, back-biting and general bloody minded rudeness that goes under the misnomer of banter among some of the PPRuNe fraternity

It does indeed ...ho hum !

[Lonewolf_50]

For my money, on the conceptual side, Julian Corbett did a nice job in his attempt at synthesis between Clausewitz and Mahan in his book on sea power.

I tend to read "policy" in the Clausewitzian context as "that which the (head of) state desires vis a vis other states." I realize that there are other ways to peel that onion.

Hmm, what's all this, we are talking about a military topic and neither back biting nor mud slinging. Are we about to be modded? :E

[thing]

Give it a chance, it's only on the first page...

[Hipper]

I doubt that he meant party politics. What puts him off is more likely the inter service and intra service politics, wingeing, back-biting and general bloody minded rudeness that goes under the misnomer of banter among some of the PPRune fraternity.You may be right but the OP who met him says differently and then proceeds to ask our views based on that assumption.

[smujsmith]

It's a sad fact that most military activities are instigated by political will, so, it's hard to seperate the two. I think though that most of us can find something of interest on the Mil Forum, that stimulates our ageing brains. As a techie, of mainly Tac transport experience, threads such as Gaining a Pilots brevet in WW2, WIWOL, Did you fly the Vulcan, etc all expand my understanding of what we all did through the years. Mostly written by people who experienced it, not so called "experts" of the media variety. Politicians will always be exactly what they are, people with power who often get it wrong.

Smudge

[nutnurse]

It was difficult to tell in a five-minute conversation mostly about other things in a hotel car park while he arrived and I was waiting for a taxi. My impression may have been wrong although I don't think it was. I think he was the sort of bloke who likes to get on with the job without squabbling and further doesn't like his belief in what he is doing questioned. Not that I tried to or indeed wanted to. If OPs want to look at this from a different perspective they should feel free.

It's a long time since I read any Clausewitz. Thank you.

About politics, that is inter-forum politics. The Goat now runs under different management (Vim Fuego, ex-aircrew). Speaking as I believe the oldest regular poster there (Flybynight), could backbiting between Goaters and PPRuNers become a thing of the past do you think? Personally, I'm all for a bit of good-natured banter, which means as I'm both a Gruner and a Proater I shall have to take the p!ss out of myself on a regular basis. Anyone who feels wrongly treated by a Mod there should pm Vim. Nut out.

[Al R]

A typical day in the life of a motoring internet forum - Overclockers UK Forums (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18566316)

The sentiment about Top Gear appears to have migrated. ;)