BA pilots please read this!

[ryan]

Hello to all BA pilots.

I am doing a research project as part of an A-level business project regarding running an airline. I need to know some idea of how much I need to pay the pilots (no silly answers please, this is serious work which affects my A-level results). I am specifically asking about BA as I guess that they probably pay slightly better than many other airlines in the UK.

Any information you can give me will be greatly appreciated and will be treated in the strictest confidence. Ideally I would like to know typical salary (gross) after say 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years.

If anyone feels like they would like to help me please either post on here or email me direct at [email protected]

Your assistance is very much appreciated.

Ryan.

[snooky]

If you're studying running an airline I would suggest that BA may not be the best example to follow.

[lefrancaoui]

Ryan, can you be more specific about the type of airplanes you will use.

[Young Paul]

If you go to the CAA website, specifically the economic information section, you will be able to find a great deal of information about the costs of running an airline, including average pilot salaries for all sorts of airlines.

[ryan]

Thanks for the replies so far guys:

lefrancaoui: I am looking at using leased Airbus A320-200 and Boeing 777-200 ER aircraft. I will only have these two kinds of aircraft on "my" fleet for commonality and ease of maintenance etc.

dontdoit: I know there are many people that complain about BA pay, but people everywhere complain about their pay. The reason I was asking about BA specifically is that many pilots aspire to join BA so I would (theoretically) be trying to tempt them away from wherever they are currently flying.

Young Paul: Thanks I will look at the CAA website.


General comment: Please send me more info!!

Thanks,

Ryan.

[BRISTOLRE]

Wheres the commonality between Airbus & Boeings??

[fiftyfour]

The answers are in CAP 663 from the CAA.
The latest I have are from 1998, but later fifures are available.

BA had 3,228 male pilots and 82 female pilots with average expenditure for the company of £75,500.

Virgin was £52600
Air 2000 £50500
Monarch £53200
BM £56,900
KLM(UK) £42,200
Airtours £50,500

For any in BA, who read this, it shows that you cost 50% more than others with the same job - goes a long way to explaining why your company is struggling more than others.

Incidently, BA Cabin Crew (including EOG)cost £18,500, against other companies figures of £12,000 to £17000.

[Hand Solo]

Oh really? So where exactly is the other £56000 going between £75000 and the £19000 that a regional CEP starts on? In fact given that pay point 24 (yes, that does mean it takes you 24 years to get there) Captains are only on a basic slightly higher than £75K, where is all this money going to? What is the original source of this data? What does the figure include?

Given that the entire departmental budget for Flight Ops is around £195M and we have 3500 pilots, if all that cash went straight into our pockets we'd still only be getting £54300. Then who'd pay for all the support staff, the buildings, the simulators and training, paper, computers, flight planning, capital investment etc etc. I think you need a lesson in maths fiftyfour.

[go_edw]

Gosh! Your earning the same amount in the low cost world in 4 years than 24 in BA!

[exeng]

go_edw,

Nice observation.

It is for that reason that unless the situation improves, and quickly, we intend to be taking some extra time out improving our gardens! A couple of days here and a couple of days there, as Lufthansa did, might well concentrate the minds of the BA management team.

Just the threat of a strike is usually sufficient to see the forward booking figures and share price plummet.


Regards
Exeng

[Iain]

As a Uni biz student let me recommend keeping things incredible simple. Airlines are very complex, and with things likes licenses, unions, maintenance, airport costs, government policy, ATC system (especially with their current problems), the new security measures, etc an A level student with no experience in the industry will find it virtually impossible to put a decent report together.
Althought I do not know the spefics about your assignment I would say it would be FAR better to pick a simple organization like your local pub, or sandwich shop. This way you can really create a comprehensive report, that will gain you a good mark.

[411A]

Well Exeng, if BA management is anything like CX management...that "garden" sorte make be....longer than you think:eek:

[dallas dude]

411,

At least they have gardens (and pubs) in England.

How are your "rocks" doing?

Cheers,

[fiftyfour]

Hand Solo
It,s not my maths, I am only quoting government documentation. These figures come from CAA document CAP 663. Perhaps you could speak to them?
I think it's a fair bet that the figures for each airline are based on the same criteria. They probably include salary,pension, allowances and expenses as filed on official returns.
Other personnel, like maintenance,ticketing, sales staff etc are listed separately and BA staff tend to cost the most, but the differences are not as marked as with pilots.

[52049er]

Unfortunately, 54, your posting is a load of tosh.

" it shows that you cost 50% more than others with the same job ". No it doesnt. BA pilots do not do the same job as most other UK pilots. How much do Monarchs bases in SIN, SYD, JFK etc etc cost? How many overseas engineering units do Virgin keep?How many long haul routes do BMI have to maintain? Yes we all fly a/c, but that is not the only cost that BA put on the flight crew figures believe me.

"goes a long way to explaining why your company is struggling more than others" conveniently ignoring the fact that BA have fewer pilots per hull than every other european large airline, work more hours than most and have salaries that start at £18000 (before tax).

Even if you assume that the bottom 1000 pilots earn £40 000 a year (ha!) that means that on your figures the top 2500 earn £90 000. Nurse, help me!!

Im not against debate, but lets debate on level fields eh?

52049er

[OneWorld22]

Running an airline isn't complicated at all, it's actually quite straightforward, you just need huge cash to invest in it and continued sustainable cash flows. You must keep those airplanes up where they belong! So maintenance is so vital, in terms of cost and planning.

The old one is true, how do you make a million running an airline? Put 10 million into it!

[Budgie69]

Ryan

It would be worth looking at the BALPA website to get comparative salary information. If you can't get access to that data write to one of the moderators.

BA costs (as distinct from salaries) are high, not least because BA are paying pension contributions of around 17% of salary - hence the change to money purchase pensions.

For historical reasons BA salaries are complicated - you may care to look at the Easyjet site, where their simpler remuneration structure is explained.