Jaguar Overwing Pylons

[fire3]

The RAF Manston History Museum is still open despite the uncertain future of the airfield, we are currently looking for a set of overawing pylons for our Jaguar GR3A XZ106 which is currently being restored.

Does anyone know of where we might be able to source a set?

Id also love to hear from anyone who has flown XZ106.

Kindest Regards

Fire3

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10646818_735004823238770_7539324189273389732_n.jpg?oh=d89fde 2277f5fc2a9780451d2fc545f0&oe=548A4CB2&__gda__=1422731530_e27f8529fdabe00242fcbd749a2ef8b8

[Madbob]

Fire3

I have no connection with this organisation but perhaps worth a call...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...j0F7UlcjMPys9w (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQjBAwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.everettaero.com%2Fcontact.html&ei=tjkQVJb5B4TdasiZgfgJ&usg=AFQjCNHC8WXW6SbAw8F4j0F7UlcjMPys9w)



Good luck

MB
http://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=8649665) http://www.pprune.org/images/misc/progress.gif

[Tiger_mate]

There are several sets stored in hangar 5 at RAF Cosford which are not used. Getting a pair gifted is another matter; but a letter to the CRO at Cosford might be a good start.

[Thelma Viaduct]

What's the story behind the overwing pylons? They look a bit adhoc.

[fire3]

Thanks for the reply's

Madbob - That is where out Jag was purchased, they haven't got any pylons unfortunately.

Tiger_mate - Do you have any contact details for Cosford?

Thanks again

Fire3

[CoffmanStarter]

Contact details ... Google is your friend ... :ok:

RAF Cosford - Contact us (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcosford/contactus.cfm)

[fire3]

Many thanks for that fingers crossed they can help.

[noprobs]

I flew it a few times between 1993 and 95 at Coltishall. It was a GR1A during that period. Though it may have been a 6 Sqn jet, support for overseas detachments meant that aircraft were often shared across the Wing.

[NutLoose]

Thought they replaced the wing fences which you have, if you want to stick sidewinders on it, shove them on an underwing pylon.

Trinity Marine BTW had Phimat dispensers a while back for not a lot of money, though you'd need a ECM pod to stick on the port outer.

Nice to see a different scheme BTW

[fire3]

We have been trying to source a ECM Pod, we do have a Phimat already fitted to the Stdb Side.

[LowObservable]

The story behind them is that if you have a teeny tiny wing you rather quickly run out of space underneath it. Harry Hillaker (Mr F-16) used to cite that as a limit to design growth (thrust and weight increases) and said that the appearance of any kind of load above the waterline meant that you were maxed out.

Related:

1978 | 2098 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%202098.html)

[garyscott]

Home (http://www.militaryaircraftspares.co.uk/index.html)

Unsure if they can help, but you never know?

[Bob Viking]

The overwing pylons were basically an Urgent Operational Requirement for self defence during Gulf War 1. As far as I'm concerned I don't know why more jets don't do the same. It's a largely untapped resource, but why stop there? What about the side of the tailfin? Definite growth potential there.;)
Anyway having checked my logbook I flew it four times in 2004/5 as a GR3a. It came to Magic Carpet with us in Oman (6 Sqn) and is then conspicuous by it's absence in my logbook which may mean it was retired shortly afterwards.
BV:(

[LowObservable]

Adopted by UK in DS, but developed rather earlier:

1976 | 0261 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1976/1976%20-%200261.html)

[Alber Ratman]

RAF Cosford give a set away? Unlikely seeing that they will be on somebodies inventory and on the computer system. If they are disposed of, it will be via the DSA to the component dealers. Who will charge a fortune and will not move on the price seeing they may be able to sell them back to the MoD or to India at some point. :(


Check out AVSpares .. If you have a part number for them. Bet most are sitting with ASL.. Got 10K spare for each?


Getting Pylons in general is a nightmare. I was quoted 12K for an ERU. They all went to ASL. Get anything off the MoD for free? No chance unless its the RAFM or IWM.

[NutLoose]

Other suggestion is

Company Overview - Air and GroundAir and Ground (http://www.airandground.com/)

They hold a lot of ex raf stuff, though they just scrapped a load of Lynx and Hercs.

[fire3]

Thankyou everyone for the replays, i have sent a few emails off today so fingers crossed something comes up.

Does anyone have any pictures XZ106 in service?

[garyscott]

Bit of a googley . .

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2011-9/29/159797.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/0/2/0565200.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/6/9/0767964.jpg

http://sg-etuo.de/media/pics/XZ106_26_Jaguar_GR1_2Sqn_bell.jpg

There are more about, none of these images are mine.

:ok:

[Coltishall. loved it]

I hear “Omans” Jags are coming to the end (postage a bit steep no doubt!)
Just admiring the 1200ltr dropper and remembering when jacking you had to remove a tank fin. And obviously replace it after? There are Jag drop tank fins scattered around the world. (Early ones had fixed fins so had to remove the whole tank)

[NutLoose]

Droppers at Bruggen use to grow like mushrooms, you looked in the woods around Sqn dispersals and there were hundreds off them, poly bags bodged taped over the connections awaiting the war that never came.

[Alber Ratman]

The Omani's have finished..

[Out Of Trim]

Fire3, nice renovation! Looks very nice.

Please keep this Jag well away from the Burning Area!

:O

[NutLoose]

In surprised no one has knocked up a pair of jet pipe moulds for the cones in fibreglass. Bearing in mind the amount at museums minus the leaf blowers they might be a nice little earner for the respective museum.

[fire3]

We are after a set of jet pipes if anyone knows of a pair that are available.

[MAINJAFAD]

Fire3

Another thing that is like rocking horse poo unless you have a wad of cash. There was a damaged Aduor on E-bay going for £5000. Nutloose's idea has a lot of merit.:D

[NutLoose]

Everret seems to have them

EVERETT AERO - Aircraft/ROLLS ROYCE ADOUR SPARES FOR SALE (http://www.everettaero.com/adour.html)

The reheat and jet pipe assembly is module 12.

But as I said if you can take a moulding off one, then make some up and sell them for the museum.

[NutLoose]

Alternatively try

Adour Mk104 engines for sale - Aviation Trading (http://www.aviationtrading.co.uk/for-sale/adour-mk104-engines/)

[MAINJAFAD]

Nutloose

I didn't say they were not around, I said they would not be cheap.

[NutLoose]

Yeah I realised that,

Damaged one is still on ebay

Rolls Royce Adour 102 Gas Turbine Jet Engine | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolls-Royce-Adour-102-Gas-Turbine-Jet-Engine-/111472576284?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item19f448871c)

Early 102.

I would also try hanngingfield metals as they did have some in the scrap yard from Halton?
Though I do not know if they still have them.
See last post

The Corestore - Turbines!! (http://www.corestore.org/turbine.htm)

Hanningfield Metals, West Hanningfield, Templewood Estate Stock Road (http://west-hanningfield.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/hanningfield-metals-16900012.html)

[Alber Ratman]

Nut Loose, Aviation trading stripped down all their 104s into modular sections because no one would buy the engines at the price they were asking. They do have a load of 104 modules as well (no cans mind), but will only sell at market value. Everett Aero will tell you what they have if you ask for a quote, but I am aware of what they have. Why anyone would want to buy flyable 104 modules when the last operator is binning the Adour from their fleet and I'm sure most of the modules are not Hawk compatible (correct me if wrong). I happen to be involved with a Jaguar restoration project to a frame that is electrically live in most respects (bar armament wiring), Hydraulically and flying control live when we finish fitting the missing parts we have mostly got and have an airfield to taxi it on.. Missing two Adour 104s to do that..

[MAINJAFAD]

Nutloose

Hanningfield Metals don't exist anymore. The place is a Skip Hire yard now. There are some odds and sods at the back of the yard including 4 Bloodhound Mk 2 missiles in various states of decay, Nothing that looks like an Adour though.

[NutLoose]

Two years ago but seems to indicate they may not be totally gone

What happened to Hanningfield Metals/HM Sales (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?114681-What-happened-to-Hanningfield-Metals-HM-Sales)

[Fonsini]

Is it true that with AIM-9Ls in situ the Jaguar's aerodynamics were marginally improved courtesy of the lift generated by the missile's fins ?

I swear I recall that comment from a pilot in one of those "Combat Aircraft" type articles.

[MAINJAFAD]

Nutloose

I was in the yard in late Oct 13, the guys were running the place said that the company had gone.

[Bob Viking]

Fonsini.
I assume that's a wind up but just in case you are serious I will humour you. The simple answer is no. The amount of wing surface taken up by the pylon easily outweighs the lift surfaces of the AIM9L. That's quite aside from the additional weight as well of course. There was no benefit to be had.
Although standby for some bright spark to bring up the old rocket assisted take off gag.
BV

[Fonsini]

Thanks Bob - maybe the pilot was having a little joke at the reader's expense, self included :(

[Vendee]

Although standby for some bright spark to bring up the old rocket assisted take off gag.What's wrong with the "curvature of the earth" take off method? :E

[Alber Ratman]

At least the Jag could get to the start of the runway, couldn't it BV.. Unlike half a Tonka Sqn when trying to launch a wave.. ;)

[Vendee]

At least the Jag could get to the start of the runway, couldn't it BV.. Unlike half a Tonka Sqn when trying to launch a wave.. ;)Yes but half a Tonka Sqn could still carry twice the bomb load of a full Jag Sqn ;)

Actually, I was on Jags from 76-84 and they were nice to work on but they didn't have a lot of oomph, even with the E rating switch on the 102's that gave an extra 6 degrees of EGT.

I always remember having to change an engine following a wire strike at Baden-Soellingen which was a Canadian Starfighter base. I was arranging to do the post installation EGR and the Canadians wanted to know if I needed to use the chains, after all I was going to be using reheat. They looked puzzled when I told them that a set of chocks would do. I moved from Jags to Harriers..... quite a difference in the oomph department :)

[Bob Viking]

Never flew with 102s. Only 104 and 106s. The 106 was quite a step up from the 104 which was itself quite an improvement on its predecessor from what I understand.
You can say what you like about the old girl but when it came to cheap bang for your buck it had few equals.
BV

[NutLoose]

And don't forget they could have gone for the uprated engines offered to the Indians, they trialled them in a RAF jag at Cosford to see if they would fit, I have a picture somewhere.

I couldn't understand why they never put the sidewinders underwing on the Jag as we did in Germany with the Phantom fit, after all it was a tried and tested fit, I cannot see why it wouldn't have been possible to add a carrier between the pylon and the stores.

[Vendee]

Never flew with 102s. Only 104 and 106s. The 106 was quite a step up from the 104 which was itself quite an improvement on its predecessor from what I understand. You can say what you like about the old girl but when it came to cheap bang for your buck it had few equals. I remember we fitted the very first pair of 104's to an operational aircraft. Ironically, it was to XZ104 when on a major at Abingdon. ISTR there was a problem with heat damage to the underside of the tailerons with the uprated engines.

It was II (ac) and 41 Sqns that got the uprated donks first because the recce pod was so heavy/draggy. Never worked on the 106's. I do have fond memories of the Jag. It was only a couple of years old when I worked on them. Makes me feel old now that they have gone. I can still remember the fuel transfer sequence but I can't remember what I had for lunch :ooh:

[GreenKnight121]

model - thrust

UK
Mk 102 - 5,110 lb (6,930 lb)

Mk 104 - 5,200 lb (7,305 lb)

Mk 106 - 6,000 lb (8,430 lb)


India
Mk 811 - 5,520 lb (8,400 lb)

Upgrade plans (still in process):
Mk 821 - ~6,500 lb (~10,000 lb)
F125IN - 6,250 lb (9,850 lb)

F125IN appears to have been selected, as it is considerably lighter and has better fuel efficiency.

[Alber Ratman]

Does make me laugh when people mention upgrades that are considerably lighter in weight for components.. Great, a lighter engine.. Those lighter engines will require weight being removed from the front end to keep the C of G and MAC within limits.. Or additional ballast at the back.. :E


Tailerons?? On a Jaguar.. Please don't dirty the aeroplane with that Tornado terminology. At above 400 Knts, they are tail planes with only pitch control function. Only at lower speed or selected by the pilot can differential movement be applied to the assemblies to produce a roll moment (because the roll spoilers on the Jag are useless at medium angles of attack or low speed). That sub system for roll was called Differential Tail Plane.. Tonka's work at pitch / roll all the time and any speed (spoilers used to enhance low speed manoeuvrability) so are proper Tailerons.

[Jamma]

The old 'Dash 10' ECM pod, worked on those in depth for many, many years on Buccaneer and Jaguar reckon I could still take it apart blindfolded, one of course was fitted to a Vulcan in the early 80's and I was involved in trying one on a Harrier at Boscombe for ground tests. Goodness knows what happened to them all, probably so much scrap metal years ago.

[dctyke]

Alber Ratman
RAF Cosford give a set away? Unlikely seeing that they will be on somebodies inventory and on the computer system. If they are disposed of, it will be via the DSA to the component dealers. Who will charge a fortune and will not move on the price seeing they may be able to sell them back to the MoD or to India at some point


Come on Albert, We've made bigger and better things than than defunct pylons disappear from SEMA/SAMA heh,heh. Allegedly of course......

[Vendee]

Tailerons?? On a Jaguar.. Please don't dirty the aeroplane with that Tornado terminologyPerhaps my memory is playing tricks but I'm sure we called them "Tailerons" on the Jaguar long before the MRCA took to the skies. I agree that the "system" was known as differential tail plane but I thought we referred to the individual controls as "Tailerons". It was a long time ago though and I did later work on Tornado.

[JagMate]

I've just consulted the old log book and 106 crops up a fair few times. Initially I flew it as a Jag96 and then in the upgraded GR3 version. Significantly (for me) it was the last Jag I flew (Sep 2000). I flew it on Op Northern Watch on 31 Aug 00 and then led a pair of Jags in DACT with F15Es on 7 Sep 00. Oh happy days.

[Alber Ratman]

Come on Alber, We've made bigger and better things than than defunct pylons disappear from SEMA/SAMA heh,heh. Allegedly of course......


Well you could make a set of underwing pylons and a centreline disappear for my lot then. I do know where the pylons for Manston came for and it wasn't from the same place as the frame.

[fire3]

All Finished.

IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10703590_756338841105368_7477927853988293090_n.jpg?oh=75b6e3 57a5dd9a27c8d715e01e251d8b&oe=54B30073&__gda__=1421602242_10a09a1a5bbd0b63824ff8994bee67b3[/IMG]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10320494_756339047772014_3616767340354157509_n.jpg?oh=180bf7 6cf2b6c97e05fbf66201f801d9&oe=54BDFDD3&__gda__=1421044570_0bba155ae33e1ef1d2dcc1ac546afec0

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1378134_756339317771987_4621067148897725857_n.jpg?oh=0e615a0 7396ef698613093e8575e8c25&oe=54F2A0B2&__gda__=1425003379_ede33ed57de945f8bad684b58baa3fef

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10175046_756339531105299_3476827951562807105_n.jpg?oh=ff98a6 ccbf3faefd30ddd51c43c9b1dc&oe=54F52327

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10176241_756339824438603_8401851804704432724_n.jpg?oh=8b61b4 72cec0b8208bd81a5d31398ace&oe=54B3FAF7

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1959779_756340037771915_3579617708643471095_n.jpg?oh=27fe269 c1f9ef9e5e2613660b160b40a&oe=54B4FFAD&__gda__=1424384723_f5c7c2078cd315d78a5a5e82d60e8891

[NutLoose]

Excellent work, now all you need is one of these off Ebay to set the scene.... ahhh... they bring back memories of smelly plumbers getting in the way ;)

Aircraft Bomb Loading Vehicle - 1973 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aircraft-Bomb-Loading-Vehicle-1973-/281469574128?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4188e4dbf0#ht_4456wt_1181)


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/5k4AAOSwr81UP5MJ/$_1.JPG?set_id=8800005007

[cobalt42]

Careful there, Nutty... Smelly Plummers? Maybe... but not as smelly as Sooties... 'specially on Buccs!;)

Mind you, that Plummers Taxi brings back memories! 'V' Loader. Not as good as the Jammer 4B but better than a Wendy!

Numbers of Plummers on a Jammer? We managed the entire Weapon Prep crew in the Dump at Coningsby and that included the 'Ready Use' lot...

Happy Daze... as long as the WO Man didn't catch you playing footie behind Bldg 12.

Just read on the auction site that this 'V' was the prototype. If so, we had it in the Dump at Coningsby for trials - 1974 ish... The boom didn't go high enough compared to the Jammer, and the forward travel on the load head wasn't enough either. Told and showed the 'project team' and AirLog what was required but nothing changed.

[MAINJAFAD]

Weird bombs on that Jag, front looks like a Rockeye, Back end looks like a that of a 1000lb bomb.

[k3k3]

Perhaps they're admin bombs, blunt!:E

[NutLoose]

What they have done in saving her and presenting her is stunning, I cannot believe you are being so negative.. Kudos fire3

[Paul C]

Hi fire3
I was wondering if the refuelling probe is deliberately out or stuck out? The one on my Jag cockpit was stuck out but I managed to tap into the hydraulic lines and 'unlock' it with a hand operated power pack. It didn't take long.
Paul

[CoffmanStarter]

Fire3 ...

Congratulations to you and the Team at Manston :ok:

In other news ...

Look what's turned up just down the coast at Shoreham over the Summer ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/20141020_125727_zps1e6d45b5.jpg

Image Credit : Self

[MAINJAFAD]

What they have done in saving her and presenting her is stunning, I cannot believe you are being so negative

Not knocking the restoration, Involved in the restoration of a Jag myself. Just wondering what the bombs were made from?

[fire3]

Paul C - The refuelling probe is stuck in the deployed position, can you send me some more details on how you got yours stowed back in please.