U.S. Air Strikes Underway in Syria

[Robert Cooper]

No doubt there's a lot of our guys on the ground calling in those airstrikes. Let's pray for their safety as well as that of all of the pilots.

Bob C

[Robert Cooper]

ABC news here reporting a mix of F-16s, F-18s, B-1s and Tomahawk missiles involved in the attack.

Bob C

[rh200]

If I was Assad I would Invite Russia in to help protect their sovereignty.

[Load Toad]

I think he might be too bothered about Chechnya to get involved.

[tartare]

Good luck and good hunting to those in the air - watch your six.
And to those designating targets on the ground as well.
CNN also reporting F-22's taking part - first time in a shooting war.

[Boudreaux Bob]

Where are the B-52's and their 80,000 pound Bomb Loads....now that is when we can claim to be serious about all this!

[RAFEngO74to09]

Coalition support provided by Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE and Qatar. Tomahawks fired from USS Arleigh Burke in Red Sea. F/A-18s from USS George H W Bush in the Persian Gulf. Decision to launch strikes taken by Commander US Central Command under authorization granted him by the Commander in Chief [according to Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby].

[dat581]

Bob

The B-1B has a payload of 125 000lbs so I'd say they are serious!

[Typhoon93]

Don't forget the Apache's of the US Army. US Special Forces were guiding them in to the targets in Iraq last week. Hellfire missiles, Hydra rockets and 30mm explosive cannon fire!

[AtomKraft]

Just hope the people who get killed are actually the enemy.....

I'd expect shed loads of innocents to get the chop, thus driving the population into the hands of the enemy.

That's what usually happens.:rolleyes:

[Davef68]

So this is them bombing the other side in Syria to the one they wanted to bomb a couple of years ago?

[Typhoon93]

It's about time the RAF Tornado's stationed in Cyprus got rid of the reconnaissance pods and had Paveway's and Brimstone's fitted instead.

[bcgallacher]

Reports say that 50 insurgents were killed - that seems a poor return for the effort involved. Destroying hard targets is fine but there are supposedly 30,000 of these savages so I would have thought that priority should be given to the extermination them in large quantities.

[ORAC]

Itchy fingers around the area.....

Israel releases statement saying it has shot down Syrian jet (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/23/israel-says-shot-down-syrian-jet)

Israel has announced that it shot down a Syrian aircraft that flew into Israeli-controlled airspace.

“Moments ago a Syrian aircraft infiltrated Israeli airspace. The IDF (Israel Defence Forces) intercepted the aircraft in mid-flight, using the Patriot air defence system. The circumstances of the incident are being reviewed,” a military statement said.

Military sources told Reuters the plane had apparently crossed by accident into Israeli-controlled airspace over the Golan Heights – where fighting from Syria’s civil war has spilled over occasionally – and was not on a mission to attack Israeli targets.

Israel last month said it had shot down a Syrian drone over the Golan Heights. It last downed a manned Syrian jet in 1985 when Israel fighters over Lebanon destroyed two Syrian MiG-23s.

[Bannock]

The runners and riders.

Airstrikes on ISIS in Syria: Who's in, who's not - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/world/meast/syria-airstrikes-countries-involved/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

The UK gets a special mention for being a no show.

[Typhoon93]

There is allegedly more than 30,000. I read somewhere that there was closer to 80,000-100,000 ISIL members. Basically an army.

Armies need armies to kill them. When Barack Obama wakes up I think David Cameron will follow suit. You can't expect DC to send British troops in without support.

[bobward]

According to the Daily Telegraph, the RAF's Rivet Joint is in the area and can be armed to assist........(*)

Has a journo from the Mail switched to the DT I ask??

Good luck and safe skies to all involved in this affair.


(* Maybe they're dropping empty beer bottles, as the Bomber Command crews did in WW2?:eek:)

[AnglianAV8R]

One report on Fox news this morning said that TLAMs were launched from a Royal Navy submarine. Just goes to show that you can't rely on the media.

[Wyler]

When Millibands in charge things will be different............:eek:

[Wander00]

Milliband - brewery - alcoholic party - forget it.................


His brother, on the other hand............glad they did not elect him, might have been able to find his arse with his eyes shut

[c53204]

Did I just hear right that F35's have also been used? (during military briefing from USA on SKY news)

[Distant Voice]

I thought we had spent several years training up the Iraqi armed services. Why is their Air Force and army units not invoved in the fight against ISIS.

DV

[Bannock]

They are fighting ISIS but on their own turf/sand. No capacity to deal with Syrian turf/sand.

[RAFEngO74to09]

DoD states 47 x TLAM fired during first attack:

http://dodnews.defense.gov/Video.aspx?videoid=362197

I had the opportunity to tour an Arleigh Burke class DDG - the USS Pinckney - during Fleet Week in San Diego last Saturday. An impressive piece of kit with a 32-cell and 64-cell Mk 41 Vertical Launch System which can be loaded with any combination of Tomahawk LAM, Standard SAM or ASROC depending on the anticipated mission.

Mark 41 Vertical Launching System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_41_Vertical_Launching_System)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/NormadyVLS.jpg

I was also able to tour the USS Somerset - a San Antonio class LPD - which is state of the art. The bridge layout / equipment was a quantum leap forward from the Arleigh Burke class with computer displays for everything including functions which had chinagraph boards on the DDG. For instance the XO was able to monitor the precise status of propulsion and power generation on a single screen.

I spoke to several sailors manning displays on the USS Nimitz (tour limited to hangar and flight deck). All below Chief commented about the uncertainties created by cruises being extended considerably in reaction to contingencies arising and subsequent retasking (eg from 6 months to 10+ months).

[glad rag]

Did I just hear right that F35's have also been used? (during military briefing from USA on SKY news)

Yep first operational deployment went without a hitch.



In the simulator that is.

[RAFEngO74to09]

DoD Press Briefing by 3* Joint Staff Director of Ops - 23 Sep 14 - 24 minutes: http://dodnews.defense.gov/Video.aspx?videoid=362249

[RAFEngO74to09]

c53204

No - F-35 was not used - F-22 was used for the first time in action in attack role using PGM against Command and Control Center (DoD video of what was actually said refers). During question time, a press person asked about the use of the F-35 for the first time (F-22 briefed earlier) and the Army 3* briefer didn't correct him when answering.

[rh200]

They are fighting ISIS but on their own turf/sand. No capacity to deal with Syrian turf/sand.

They don't have the capacity to deal with them in their own country.

[Thelma Viaduct]

It's important to remember that 99% of the pro afghanistan/iraq invasion posts on pprune turned out to be foolish.

It would be nice to see less whooping and hollering this time around. Stay safe to all those involved.

[Robert Cooper]

it appears there was no coordination or consultation with the Syrian government before the attack, which may have repercusion later.

Bob C

[rh200]

it appears there was no coordination or consultation with the Syrian government before the attack, which may have repercusion later.

Yea there have been a few articles written about the leaglities of it. It seems there is some wriggle room in international law. So I'm guessing that they have enough different interpretations to play legal aerobics with it for years.:p

[RAFEngO74to09]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bpakeG9x7o&list=UUNEEHeS9Y2yFVLbWGeHhbYA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tyRw8INSs&list=UUNEEHeS9Y2yFVLbWGeHhbYA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nShvy9S4pg4&list=UUNEEHeS9Y2yFVLbWGeHhbYA

[Bannock]

Oh dear, How the mighty has fallen.
Great Britain was given a courtesy call that Air strikes were inbound.
Syria was given a courtesy call that airstrikes were inbound.
Assad and Cameron on the same dist list.
WTF.

[TEEEJ]

Parliament could be recalled as soon as Friday to authorise Britain’s participation in air strikes against Isis militants

Syria air strikes: Parliament could be recalled as David Cameron hints at involvement in Middle East - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syria-air-strikes-parliament-could-be-recalled-as-david-cameron-hints-at-involvement-in-middle-east-9751923.html)

[Heathrow Harry]

Sounds like the Syrians decided to stay at home - no point in them putting themselves in harms way when someone else is doing a job they might have to do themsleves in a few months

[Robert Cooper]

You're right HH, ironicaly we are now cleaning up Assad's back yard for him! The Obama administration is still supplying arms to the so-called "moderate Muslim" rebels in the are and one wonders where those weapons will end up. Bit of a mess.

Bob C

[Hangarshuffle]

Yet another war, just what the world needs. A waste of time, money and innocent lives. My own diary tells me one way or another we have been trying air warfare and dishing this sort of destruction out since Bush the elder, Clinton, Bush2 and now the current. Or Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron.
All the brains and advice between them all and its only brought it all to this.
If you were born in Iraq in 1991 you are now, what? 23 - so this is all you've known in this region, all your life. Syria, lord knows how long since they've known a normality.
Granted, I wouldn't start from here as the Irish say, but heaven help us.
Cant be that hard for this current crop to disappear and regroup once the bombing is over.
Other options were tried?

[GeeRam]

Syria, lord knows how long since they've known a normality.

About 3 years.......

Between 2000 and the start of the civil war in 2011/12, Syria was quite 'normal' compared to many of it's neighbours.
Even prior to 2000 under the rule of Assad's father it was not in internal conflict of a serious nature.

[MAINJAFAD]

HS

It started long before 1991, The RAF were doing it in the 1920's and the Turks on the ground long before that.

[MAINJAFAD]

GeeRam

Maybe that's why Assad's old man flattened the 4th biggest City in Syria (Homs) with artillery in 1982 due to a major jihadist revolt.

[barit1]

Fox and others reporting: UAE?s first female fighter pilot likely dropping bombs on ISIS militants in Syria - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/uae-female-fighter-pilot-dropping-bombs-isis-article-1.1951052)

This has serious implications for Islamists killed by this lady! :D

[Frostchamber]

Has there ever been an example of "arming the rebels" in the middle east that hasn't come back to bite us on the bum one way or another? There's some phrase about what happens if you fail to learn the lessons of history...

[tartare]

Depends what you arm them with.
If it's AK47s then perhaps there's less likelihood of it all going pear shaped than if you give them Gucci gear like Stingers etc.
Don't know if I buy the whole `this is just another disaster in the making' thesis.
The US military learn with each conflict.
Am watching with interest to see the tactics used to degrade and destroy.
I wonder if weapons like the small diameter bomb are being used...
I also see it reported that they've hit oil refineries used by IS to generate income.
Will starve them of much needed cash no doubt.

[Typhoon93]

Female fighter pilots rock!

[ShotOne]

It's all well asking about the fine detail of the weapons we're using. I'm far more interested in the details of the "nice rebels" we're handing weapons to. Who are they and are they our friends.?

[Boudreaux Bob]

So as we drop precision bombs on buildings and lots of dust gets thrown into the Air....anyone stopped to think how useless that really is in advancing our ambition to "destroy" ISIS?

All we have to do is look to Afghanistan.....despite all the bombing we have done there and the Russians before us....the Taliban are just as active today as ever.

How does one defeat an Ideology by bombing buildings?


What the Heck.....if we are gonna Bomb.....Let's BOMB!



https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10687133_780603392001780_2528538059964939462_n.jpg?oh=bc74fe ac0c2ed09887e3f32940c3a8b6&oe=548B85CA&__gda__=1418754208_c4d956540d3095a12aa52ba643901a4b

[ShotOne]

Great, let's bomb! I was impressed by Mr Cameron's "barbarians" speech. Clearly IS are a vile bunch. Could someone explain, though, why we are at the same time fighting a proxy war against Syria, the main force opposing them?

[MAINJAFAD]

if you give them Gucci gear like Stingers etc.

Unlike an AK-47, Stinger needs somebody with good training and skills to operate it. Stinger also has a shelf life, after a period of time its chances of actually working go down. Also there is the manhood and status of owning a Gucci bit of kit like a stinger compared to the underlings that all have AK's in that neck of the woods. Fire the Stinger and that man goes from a king to a man with an empty bit of pipe at the press of a trigger.

[GeeRam]

GeeRam

Maybe that's why Assad's old man flattened the 4th biggest City in Syria (Homs) with artillery in 1982 due to a major jihadist revolt.

Precisely the point I was making.

[tartare]

I'm still skeptical.
The popular narrative (promulgated by the media, who are steeped in lay wisdom) is this:
"Big dumb United States (or substitute name of any other large Western Power of your choice) with all its 21st century weapons, can't beat small wily asymmetric opponent. Woe is us, it's Vietnam all over again - in the long run, they will win, we will lose."
To which I call - bull****.
Where's Osama?
Dead.
Where are many of the other most feared AQ figureheads?
Dead or in jail.
Has there been another 9/11 scale atrocity?
No.
Have AQ established any significant beach-heads outside the arc of instability running from North Africa through the Middle East to Pakistan?
No - and I wouldn't call Boko Haram significant.
IS themselves implored Allah to grant them the means to deal with their enemies airplanes - which they cannot cope with.
Say what you will, but personally, if I had the choice between being a martyr with a AK47 (or a Stinger for that matter) or being a few miles up moving a target designator on to said martyr, I know where I'd be.
Whenever I hear or read stories of ominous portent about how we can't fight asymmetric enemies I remind my self of two things: The first is Stormin Norman's luckiest man in Iraq video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AjCAuYkrgA
It reminds me of the utter lethality of modern weapons - because the luckiest man in Iraq may have missed the blast, but was more than likely killed by the overpressure.
The next thing I think of is the lead up to the operation to kill Bin Laden. I believe it's an example of how AQ et al fundamentally underestimate the west.
Despite the other popular narrative that we're war weary and fear death, the reality is that we're rat cunning, incredibly persistent and don't want a fair fight.
Yes, Iraq is still a mess. So is Libya and much of the middle east.
But it's a long war, and it ain't over yet.
Ideas that oppress and restrict people cannot persist in the long run - history has proven that time and time again.
Radical Islam will eat itself in the end.
Inshallah bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm.

[Robert Cooper]

Looks like the UK is going to use the Tornados in Cyprus for offensive operations against the Islamic State, but only in Iraq.

Bob C

[ShotOne]

Good post, tartare. It's certainly true that the West and USA in particular are massively competent, not just militarily but in most other areas too. What has ISIL/Al Qaeda ever achieved other than trash things? But against that, there's the lingering impression that all our military ever do is sweep up the collateral from previous interventions. The shadow of our Iraq invasion looms long over the rise of ISIL and here we are attacking Assad's enemies when only a few months ago we were on the point of attacking Syria.

[Robert Cooper]

The Free Syrian Army (FSA) are reporting that there is no coordination or communication between them and the US military concerning the US air strikes, which are sometimes bombing the folks we are supposed to be helping!

If true, this could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Bob C :(