UK PPL(SSEA) to EASA PPL(SEP)

[Mickey Kaye]

OK a person has a UK PPL(SSEA) with no other ratings on it and wants to upgrade to a EASA PPL with a SEP rating.

Does anyone know what they have to do?

[Mach Jump]

Hi Mickey.

UK PPLs were never issued with only SSEA Class ratings, so it must, at some time, have had an SEP or MEP Class Rating on it.

Either renew that, at the same time ensuring that the Radio Nav requirements are/have been covered, and then apply for an EASA PPL, or:

Apply directly for a LAPL on the basis of the existing PPL with a valid SSEA.


MJ:ok:

[Rick Moss]

....and if the person in question (me) has never held SEP or MEP, only microlights?

At this stage, all I want to do is fly my Europa freely around Europe and possibly rent an easa 4 sweater from time to time, although as/when/if permit IFR becomes a reality, I may wish to take advantage of that.

[Mickey Kaye]

Thanks MJ

And that was what I thought but this guy has never held a sep or mep rating.

However he did once have a ppl(m) and I suspect he had added the SSEA rating to that.

[Whopity]

What a mess licensing has got into! I can oly presume that the PPL (Microlight) Post 2002 was converted to a NPPL to add the SSEA.
I think MJs suggestion of converting it to a LAPL would be the simplest option.

[Mickey Kaye]

I could not sgree more whopity.

As he now has a ICAO compliment PPL. Could he just do a SEP class rating course at an ATO/RTF plus test and then add a SEP rating to his PPL.

This would then be valid in Europe until April 2015 and more than likely following the vote this October to 2018?

[Whopity]

As he now has a ICAO compliment PPLDoes it actually state that on the licence?Could he just do a SEP class rating course at an ATO/RTF plus test and then add a SEP rating to his PPL. According to Article 65 65 (2) The CAA may include in any United Kingdom licence or National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) any rating specified in Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7.
The SEP Class Rating is not specified in Schedule 7.

[Mach Jump]

My understanding is that the UK CAA PPL(Microlight) was conceived as a sub-ICAO Licence, and the concept of adding 'Class Ratings' (A term yet to be invented) was never envisaged, .....at the time.

Times change, however, as we know to our cost, and these days, anything seems to be possible. As Whopity points out, The SEP Class Rating may not be included in Schedule 7, but this does not preclude any Class Rating being added to any UK CAA Licence that the UK CAA may think fit.

I suspect, however, that the CAA will view the CAA PPL(Microlight) in the same light as the NPPL(M) and although they may be happy to add an SSEA Class rating, the SEP will remain associated only with the full (ICAO) CAA/EASA PPL(A).

Best route for Rick, is to convert what he has now, (still not clear if this is an NPPL(SSEA) or Old CAA PPL(Microlight) with SSEA added) to a LAPL. That will solve his immediate requirement regarding his Europa and hiring EASA 4 seaters, and then upgrade to a full EASA PPL(A) in the future, if/when he wants to add an IMC/IR(R), or IR.


MJ:ok:

[ajojets]

You would need to get an SSEA or a SLMG ticket on your NPPL licence first

[Mach Jump]

You would need to get an SSEA or a SLMG ticket on your NPPL licence first

He already has an SSEA Class rating on his Licence. I'm just not sure if he has an NPPL(SSEA) or a CAA PPL(M) with a SSEA added.


MJ:ok:

[Whopity]

a CAA PPL(M) with a SSEA added.
This should not be possible. The PPL(Microlight) preceeded the NPPL to which both Microlight and other Class ratings can be appended; it should not be possible to add another aircraft rating to it. Interestingly, such a licence is not listed in Schedule 7, so presumably no longer exists, even though many were issued for the lifetime of the holder!

It is yet another example of the absymal mess we have fallen into.

[xrayalpha]

OK,

Let's get back to basics:

RickMoss said the person in question, himself, has never held SEP or MEP ... but wants to fly his Europa. And all Europas are light aircraft. So he must have a "light aircraft licence".

Well, I count about 9 licences that might allow recreational flying!!! (excluding balloons, airships, TMGs, helicopters etc)

CPL
ATPL
EASA SEP
JAR SEP
EASA LAPL
Old PPL (A)
Old PPL (Micro)
NPPL (SSEA)
NPPL (Micro)

Basically, if someone has a C42 Ikarus, you would have to check its paperwork to see if it was a light aircraft or a microlight, and then check if one of at least NINE licence types was valid.

How did we get here? This is just ridiculous. No wonder RM - and the rest of us - are confused as to what licence is need for which aircraft!

And then we can have someone with 100 hours on a tailwheel microlight passing their LAPL etc on a nosewheel (since few flying schools have a taildragger) and then they'll have to do 3 hours "differences" training!

Aaaargh!

ps. Did I mention there are five medicals: EASA Class One and Two, LAPL, and NPPL Group One and Group Two.

Just to make it more confusing, a Class One is better than a Class Two, but a Group One is worse than a Group Two! My head hurts, so which medical does that leave me with?

[ifitaintboeing]

There are actually more licences than you have listed since there is a EASA ATPL and national ATPL, EASA CPL and national CPL, as well as a EASA PPL and national PPL, plus the others you have mentioned.

And then we can have someone with 100 hours on a tailwheel microlight passing their LAPL etc on a nosewheel (since few flying schools have a taildragger) and then they'll have to do 3 hours "differences" training!

I think you are confusing the requirement to add TMG/SEP privileges to an existing LAPL, and the differences training requirement which states at FCL.135.A (b):

Before the holder of an LAPL(A) can exercise the privileges of the licence on another variant of aeroplane than the one used for the skill test, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. The differences training shall be entered in the pilot's logbook or equivalent document and signed by the instructor.

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

My head hurts.

All of our heads are hurting, trying to understand this slowly unfolding disaster that has overwhealmed us like lava from a volcano.

The saddest thing is that the really great people in the flight training industry have been completely distracted for the last couple of decades with the unmitigated fiascos that have been the introduction of, first JAA, and now EASA, without any perceivable improvement in safety, when they could have been putting their considerable talents into what they are best at, which is making flight training safer and more effective. :ugh:


MJ:ok: