CASA Part 61 - Private Flying for ATPL pilots under cyclic programs

[A320 Flyer]

I have a question regarding private flying under the new licensing system.

After reading (skimming) through Part 61 I have been thinking about the legalities of private flying.

As a pilot who is checked under a cyclic program, am I required to conduct a flight review to fly outside of my employers operation? (i.e Private flying)

Anyone who has had a good look through the new regs might have an answer.

[Nomde plume]

Assuming you mean private flying in a light single or twin, you wil have to do a flight review every 2 years for the multi engine or single engine 'class' rating, as your type rating specific cyclic program's don't cover the lighties.
That's my understanding so far...

[Nomde plume]

I am an airline pilot successfully participating in a cyclic training and proficiency program. Do I need to do a separate flight review?
You do not need to do a separate flight review to fly the type of aircraft covered by your cyclic training and proficiency program.
However, you will need to complete a separate flight review to fly a different type of aircraft or an aircraft in a different class.

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_aircraft_class_ratings_fs2.pdf

[BlatantLiar]

Makes sense to me.

[MadMadMike]

So lets get this right. I fly for a living. I fly a combination of multi crew turbo prop and single pilot twin turbine.

Occasionally - maybe once a year I take a 172 for a family scenic when they are in town. In order to this now I an going to have to undertake a BFR in a 172 to prove to a 200hour CPL that I am safe for my hour long jolly!

[Seabreeze]

MMM
How much forced landing practice do you get in your regular flying work? Are you confident you could get safely into the field that you choose if the silence happens, or will you end up in the ditch, rocks or trees at either end?

[Nomde plume]

You'll find you need quite a bit more than 200 hours and a CPL to conduct a flight review. There are inherent qualities of light singles and twins that just aren't relevant to twin turbine >5700kg. Forced landings, crap single engine accountability, etc. I think this is quite reasonable. It's an hours check ride every two years (providing you are what you're cracked up to be). Flying jets doesn't all of a sudden make you Bob Hoover in a 172

[Howard Hughes]

Are you confident you could get safely into the field that you choose if the silence happens, or will you end up in the ditch, rocks or trees at either end?No less confident than the 200 hour CPL doing the check...;)

If I can't make the field, don't worry I'll be hitting the softest possible object with the lowest safe forward speed!:ok:

[morno]

Flying jets doesn't all of a sudden make you Bob Hoover in a 172

No, but a 172 isn't exactly the friggin space shuttle either!

How hard is it, to maintain a glide speed?

Ridiculous new rule.

morno

[Tankengine]

What a load of crap!:ugh:
Reading that it would seem to suggest that if an Airline Pilot flies a twin occasionally and a single they would need to do their cyclics plus a twin engine class flight review plus a single engine flight review. To keep a night VFR then one of those would need yo be at night.:hmm:
An IR renewal would cover the reviews as now?
In the USA you only need to do one class, and it can be in a glider!:ok:
Here I need the glider review every year as well!:(
This might shut up some of the bleating from GA flying schools, plenty of extra work for them.:mad:

[Tankengine]

Regarding "forced landings";
With the number of lawn darts scattered around this country by private pilots each year I would bet on myself.:E

[morno]

This might shut up some of the bleating from GA flying schools, plenty of extra work for them.

Either that or for those like me who probably don't fly regularly enough outside of work to justify spending the money, it'll help put the extra nails in the coffin for GA.

[Mail-man]

What happens if you fail the BFR for a lighty. Are you still able to go to work?

[Oktas8]

Reading that it would seem to suggest that if an Airline Pilot flies a twin occasionally and a single they would need to do their cyclics plus a twin engine class flight review plus a single engine flight review. To keep a night VFR then one of those would need yo be at night.

Best to read the rules, rather than incomplete comments on PPRuNe. CASA is saying loudly & often that one flight review, planned sensibly, should cover a pilot for multiple ratings & GA activities.

But yes, it is my understanding that an airline pilot will have to do a flight review to fly lighties. A good thing in my experience, if only to cover the differences between unregulated* VFR & RPT IFR.



* Well, almost unregulated. Comparatively speaking... :oh:

[Ollie Onion]

We have also been advised by work that our Instrumepnt Ratings are now not able to be used outside of work and a separate rating will have to be maintained for all non airline flying.

[roundsounds]

Tankengine - flight reviews can be performed independently of a flying school now under Part 61, as can formation, spinning and aerobatic endorsements. Training for the issue of a licence or rating needs to be completed through a Part 141 or 142 holder, the rest simply needs an appropriately rated instructor.

[Tankengine]

Oktas 8, I did read the rules, that is where it said each class of licence needs a seperate review!:eek:
I agree with what you say CASA says, one review should do it.
Like I said before, in USA I do it in a glider to tick the boxes for all VFR flying.:ok:
Thanks Roundsounds, so I need to find an old mate to have a jolly with me and sign me out every two years.:rolleyes:

[josephfeatherweight]

No, but a 172 isn't exactly the friggin space shuttle either!

How hard is it, to maintain a glide speed?

Ridiculous new rule.

morno

I could not agree more with the above comment. How hard/expensive do they want to make it to take a bugsmasher for a spin? (Well, you know what I mean...)

[maverick22]

So, if I hold an ATPL, and operate under a CTPP, and hold an RAAus pilot certificate which is current - do I still need to do a flight review to fly a GA registered single? :rolleyes:

[Lookleft]

When I am issued with a Part 61 license is it only the highest category of license that is transferred? On my current license I still technically have a PPL and CPL qualification as well as the ATPL.:confused:

[Pontius]

I can see the sense in this, especially for those who only fly a 172 around the patch once a year. I fly light aircraft a lot more often and am current as far as PFLs etc are concerned but I think I've been lucky to get away without having a BFR thus far and there's always something you can gain by going up with an instructor who is flying light aircraft all the time....apparently there is no need to wait for a push-back tractor :ooh:

The question I have is by when do I have to do this proficiency check? Is it 2 years from the start of Part 61? Is it 2 years from my last 'jet' sim check prior to Part 61? I really have no idea. I suppose I could just get on and do the check but I would like to know the official version of 'by when' and so far my searches have come up with not too much :(

[mates rates]

If you did an instrument renewal prior to the 1st September and got a sticky strip in your log book you can legally fly as before until the expiry of that renewal.

[Mail-man]

I guess i'll ask again. If you happen to fail the BFR to do private flying, are you still able to turn up to work, or are you grounded?

[Tankengine]

If you need to ask that question perhaps.....ohh, couldn't be bothered.:rolleyes:

[training wheels]

Makes you wonder why, before 1st September, it was ok for those who fly air transport category aircraft to occasionally fly smaller GA aircraft, but now it's deemed to be unsafe and requires a BFR?

I fly overseas but renew my Australian MECIR every year in a PA44, but since this is in the multi-engine land class, to fly a single engine land class requires a separate BFR in a C172?

[Aussie Bob]

Come on boys and girls, the BFR is a thing of the past. It's now an FR-SEA (or something else for something else) and just having completed the paperwork for someone, it is a time consuming thing indeed. CASA needs to be notified, it commences the process for a new Part 61 license (unless your already have one) and with all the certified logbook pages, flight review form, photo form, photographs and associated bits and pieces this one is an 18 pages affair. Including ground time, flight time and paperwork time around 4 hours.

Free now but I see a charge coming in the future .... Perpetual license perhaps but my guess is in just a few short years all these notifications will come with a CAsA fee.

[CYHeli]

MailMan, 61.747. The flight review is linked to the class or type rating. So failing a FR in a 172 wont ground you in a 737.

It is also why operator checks don't cover you for other classes.

To work out when the various checks are due, look at your BFR date before 1 September and add two years to that date. Your flight review will be due when the rating, BFR, etc have its normal birthday / renewal date. CASA have done it this way so that there is a staggered change over to the new licences, otherwise there would have been a rush and plenty of mistakes made.