Thanking Job Applicants

[Runaway Gun]

Is it too much to expect that after taking the time to search for job vacancies, researching the work, sending on our Resumes and then planning a possible trip for interview/flight test etc, that the employers advise applicants if they have not been successful?

Sure, in the old days the cost and time of sending back hundreds of letters was prohibitive. But nowadays, with the majority of applicants coming in via email, it would be nice to let people know that the job has been filled.

In my experience, greater than 90% of job applications go unanswered. It takes searches on Pprune to discover that maybe we should apply to that truck master advert instead...

[morno]

It may frustrate you, however I bet if you were the person receiving all these applications, then you'd understand why they don't.

I remember when I was in GA, the pile of resume's that would be seen on the Chief Pilot's desk would be about as high as the monitor for his computer.

So yes, probably is too much to ask.

morno

[dhavillandpilot]

As someone currently advertising for aircrew, can I make the following observations

When a company clearly states the minimum experience level required it is for a good reason. In our case one that is dictated by our Insurance company and the complexity of the type

So far we have received around 20 replies, of which half fall outside the minimum criteria ie insufficient total time or type or similar type experience. Approximately a quarter are so over qualified it is scary as to what they expect.

By the end of the advertisements run we will probably get around 100.

So what do I do, ignore everyone except those who meet the criteria or address replies to everyone?

The answer is simple, respond to everyone in a short but positive manner. After all it is only good manners as my mother kept drumming into my brother and I.

And for those who take the opposite tack, remember the old saying

"Rooster one day feather duster the next"

PS. For those that are interested and have an aero commander and chieftain endorsement look on the afap website

[Aussie Bob]

PS. For those that are interested and have an aero commander and chieftain endorsement look on the afap website

Good post dhpilot, and I agree, applicants should get some sort of feedback but the folk who fail to read job requirements are annoying, and I would not employ them myself.

Referencing the quote above however .... with part 61 isn't anyone with a twin endorsement now a multi engined pilot and as such, the endorsements you list no longer exist :O

[dhavillandpilot]

Yes you are right Part 61 gives anyone with a dutchess endorsement carte Blanche to think they can fly any twin under 5700kgs

Just what I need a normally aspirated dutchess pilot use to handling a 160hp lycoming engine, suddenly controlling a 435 hp GTISO 520 engined aircraft that's cruise speed is 210 kts at 20,000 feet.

I've already paid for two new engines

[pilotchute]

When my company recruited last the CP did exactly what dehavillad did.

If the CV wasn't up to scratch or the mins weren't met, no thanks was the reply sent back. We had a standard rejection letter so it was easy.

[Runaway Gun]

Fair points about the minimums. It's nice to hear that some companies will reply to those with the relevant qualifications.:ok:

[Aussie Bob]

I've already paid for two new engines

Uh huh .... you need someone with experience!

[Di_Vosh]

I've been on both sides of this and can see both points of view.

To the OP, yes it can be frustrating to not get any reply at all but you should put yourself in the shoes of whoever is going to be reading and replying to the adverts.

Many of the CP's reading the CV's also have more than enough to keep them occupied during the working week apart from replying to what can be hundreds of applications.

I've not done it in aviation but in one of my I.T. jobs I was in charge of recruiting I.T. graduates.

So apart from my normal 45 hours per week I had to handle this. Although the application window was for a fixed period (about 10 days) we didn't accept any email applications after about five days.

(This is a common practice, btw. If you see a job advertised and you can send in applications up until 5:00 pm Friday afternoon, I'd advise that you send it in by Tuesday at the latest).

Even with that we averaged well over 200 applications per job. So how do you filter further? Any application that was just a c.v and no covering letter or intro in the application was also binned. That still leaves around 150 applications per vacancy.

After that it was just slog through. By filtering out those who don't meet the criteria, can't spell and, have bad grammar you're still left with at least 50 applications per job. You may be able to trim it down a bit further but I was only going to interview a maximum of eight people for a single position.

I'd do my eight interviews and then recommend the best three for a second interview with my boss and HR. Each of my interviews could last as long as an hour and then around 15 minutes or so of my time writing my assessment.

By now you may be getting an appreciation of how much work could be involved in filling a single position.

Different industry I know, but from talking to friends who've done this at flying schools and charter operations it didn't sound that much different.

So I can well understand if an operator doesn't reply.

DIVOSH!

[Horatio Leafblower]

most jobs went to either current Pilots friends, or to people who walked up and met us. Very rarely did we actually advertise, but when we did, you could right away spot the difference between someone who was sending applications in every direction with the same cover letter and someone who actually tailored their application in response to your advert.

....the 5 bars on the left hand side of the Email is a giveaway that you are receiving the same cover note they sent to the last job.

...and using the other Chief Pilot's name or listing your objective as "Secure a position as a line pilot for [insert competitor here]" doesn't wash too well either.

I always try to ackmowledge an email, but as others said above it serves small companies well to recruit trusted friends of trusted pilots, or people we have already met.

If people have applied for an advertised position, I agree with the OP - they deserve and acknowledgement of their application and, if unsuccessful, a quick polite "Thanks but no thanks" so they can get on with their life.

I waited 3 months after a rex interview before accepting a job elsewhere. no feedback. No answer to emails or calls.

...two weeks later they rang and offered a job :rolleyes: :ugh:

[deadcut]

I've always been amazed when I hear Pilots saying they've sent out "100 CV's" with no response

I absolutely cringe at the memory of sending out these types of emails to every company that I could find. What the hell was I thinking!?!?! :ugh:

[A37575]

Just what I need a normally aspirated dutchess pilot use to handling a 160hp lycoming engine, suddenly controlling a 435 hp GTISO 520 engined aircraft that's cruise speed is 210 kts at 20,000 feet.


How do you know the pilot with the type qualifications that you mandate is competent to handle those fantastically engineered super-powerful piston engines? The answer is you don't know. So you assume and take the chance. Just because a pilot has an endorsement on type doesn't make him an expert at engine handling.

Presumably before letting the type qualified candidate to fly freight and passengers you would first line train him at company expense? That being the case you could also have a first class pilot who is Duchess only qualified and he could turn out to be the ideal personality for the job. It takes only a couple of flights with a competent training pilot to teach the Duchess pilot how to fly another piston engine type.

[josephfeatherweight]

My 2 cents...

My company hasn't advertised a position for quite some time - this doesn't stop the flow of job applications and resumes hitting the inbox - and nor do I begrudge anyone sending them, I was a keen hopeful in the past. I respond to all of them, admittedly with a "standardised" response which I have ready to go, "Dear John, thanks for application, not hiring, try again if we do and you meet the minimums, best of luck, etc, etc...", and if I have the time, a more personal response to their application - it's what I would have been after when I was job searching.

What does get my goat is the occasional appalling email - misspellings, resumes simply attached to an email with no introduction, incorrect references to OTHER companies (cut and paste spam send), etc. And, what really disappoints me is that many of the worst emails come from ex-military members - guys, there's transition courses to help you with this stuff, or a simple proof read won't go astray!

Joe Lighty
"Nobody's ever died from pressing..."

[Homesick-Angel]

Dehavilland

I was interested in applying as Im ready to move on from my current position after 3 years (I don't have some of the requirements and didn't want to waste your time but that doesn't mean I wont harass you in the future!) but there's a couple of problems, and the major one for me is I have a family to support. Doing 250 hours per year on a casual basis might not cover it? I currently get sick leave holiday pay etc etc.

Saying that, Im surprised you haven't received a lot more applications (370 for the 206 job is hilarious and sad) but the nature of your Ad might scare off people who need security although in the current climate, Id not be surprised if you got Chuck Yeager throwing in a resume.:}

Good luck filling the job.

[Mach E Avelli]

I agree with A3575. Time on type is probably the lowest priority when selecting pilots. In fact it is often easier to train someone to do it the way you want it done than it is to beat out old habits brought across from another operator.
The only possible impediment to that could be misguided client or insurance insistence that pilots have time in type. Often these requirements are arbitrary and exemptions can be sought on the basis that the pilot is otherwise suitably experienced and properly trained.
A piston engine is a piston engine with a bit more technique required at the upper horsepower levels and turbines at the lower spectrum basically only come in two flavours, so now that we don't need formal endorsements on each type, companies should be able to spend a few dollars on tailored pilot induction programs to suit their specific operation.
NOT properly inducting a pilot could prove costly, no matter how simple or complex the type.

[Cessna Jockey]

Well said Mach. As someone with several hundred hours on twins, including duchess types, I thought about applying for your aero commander job DH, but couldn't justify walking away from a full time salary to a casual job. Been there done that.

I'm glad I didn't because the last thing I want to do is waste my time working for another tight Arse GA sloberator who wants all the experience with no training cost to the business. The funny thing is, it will cost you more in the long term because the pilot you are seeking is precisely the experienced pilot who will run for the hills the day the airlines start hiring again, when you could have just trained a younger guy who will stick around for years.

I look forward to not applying for the exact same job in six months time when your employee leaves you high and dry. Maybe you could be even more specific in your future advert?

"Applicant requires approximately 24.3 hours previous experience, no more, no less, on my uncle's brother's cousin's 1984 aero commander's engines."

[dhavillandpilot]

Cessna Jockey

Just for the record anyone that knows me also knows I was the driving force to save some 25 jobs two years ago when a well known company went into receivership. I put my money where my mouth was to ensure these people had work.

Also the position comes about because a very good pilot and someone I consider a friend, has medical issues and is unable to fly at present.

And to ensure you understand I PAID FOR HIS ENDORSEMENT.

And for those of you that feel hopping out of a Dutchess and becoming a complex twin pilot is a walk in the park think again. Would any of you like to pay for a replacement engine. No of course not.

[Howard Hughes]

I gotta say it is getting pretty bad! I recently (within the last 6 months) had an interview for a very senior position, with what I would call a very reputable organisation. Didn't even get an email saying I was unsuccessful, but saw the position was re-advertised about 3 months later...:rolleyes:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I gotta say it is getting pretty bad! I recently (within the last 6 months) had an interview for a very senior position, with what I would call a very reputable organisation. Didn't even get an email saying I was unsuccessful, but saw the position was re-advertised about 3 months later...:rolleyes:

Yup!

I had an interview last year for a senior position with a multinational company. Never heard anymore about it!

About 6 mths later I sent them an email - "I assume I didn't get the job, huh"!

At least the last mob I interviewed for said, "If you haven't heard back from us in 3 wks, assume your application was not successful"!

Dr :8

[kingRB]

Been in the same boat also . I've travelled across the country, flights, accommodation etc for an interview and check ride, only to never hear from them again. Apparently a 30 second phone call to let you know they don't want you is too much to ask for after spending a grand or so to see them.

It is an expensive way, but at least it is one way of determing who you were better off not working for anyway!

[Luke SkyToddler]

I've got a huge cardboard box full of rejection letters that I saved from back in the day ... a couple hundred at least ... every single one was more motivation for me

When I get around to building the dream house in the next year or two, I'm going to wallpaper my office with them :ok:

[pineappledaz]

Luke, That has to be one of the funniest things I have ever read! Classic.

[Mach E Avelli]

When starting out, applicants take all the risk of financing travel etc to attend interviews. Therefore, it would be reasonable and fair to expect an initial telephone interview, at the end of which the applicant should be invited to ask questions. Even if not invited to ask, you should ask anyway. Such as "how many are you interviewing?, where does my experience sit in relation to the other applicants? and how many positions are available?" Then at least you will have an idea of the odds and can decide whether to spend time and money on further pursuit or not.


However, when applying for more senior positions, if the company is serious about attracting the best, they should follow up the telephone interview with pre-paid travel and accommodation. If they do not offer this, ask for it. If they decline, they are either not worth chasing or you would probably be undercut by someone cheaper anyway.


It is interesting how many senior jobs get readvertised every few months. That is another warning sign that all is not sweetness and light in some of these apparently reputable organisations. Something CASA should note, but never seem to.