A-10 The Warplane Nobody Wanted

[tdracer]

Good read about the history of the A-10 Warthog.

The Warplane Nobody Wanted (http://www.historynet.com/the-warplane-nobody-wanted.htm?source=ddsept102014&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=text)

[CoffmanStarter]

Not sure about "Not Wanted" ... but certainly "Missed" here in these parts of the UK.

Many years ago, A-10's from RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge were regular visitors to the Cuckmere Valley here in East Sussex ducking and diving at low level as they simulated their attack runs on the Arlington Reservoir :ok:

Coff.

[Brian W May]

Reckon they're coming out of mothballs for ISIS interdiction?

What an ideal platform, you could almost think they were designed for Close Air Support . . . long loiter time, armoured and carrying oodles of ordnance.

Nah . . . let's go for pointy jets instead.

[Dash8driver1312]

Why do you want tons of ordnance, superlative visibility, lots of loiter time, when you can have barely-sonic-going-downhill and stealth-when-carrying-nothing?

[onyxcrowle]

I get the feeling shock and awe 2 is about to be on tv. Going by the announcement about bombing Syria.
Quite how they plan to pull it off without starring world war 3 remains to.be seen.
Is is are being funded by a much bigger hidden state. I had thought Saudi Arabia.
But With Russia bleating on about it being a breach of international law then who knows maybe they are handing over is us the cash.
But Isis are too well organised and too well funded and appear to be invading multiple places by degrees.
One concern is Israel. It has to be on their hit list.
Look at where they turned uo.
Egypt, Syria the Golan heights .
Either way your going to need something a lot smarter tgan an A10 at least early on. Sadly though as is inevitable this will escalate and your probably right . They be pulled out of mothballs . Maybe upgraded here and there and will be buzzing around juat about every middle eastern state for a long time.
Interesting to see how much more Iran is willing to put in to help.
What do they have in terms of technology?
Last I read it was mig 21 ' s and french built mirages.
Perhaps they can be more helpful by giving the new coalition force airbases and support maintenence and staging posts plus ground troops .

[mr fish]

iran have quite a few F4s and SU24 fencers still airworthy.


the impression I get is they would love the chance to prove to the west, the USA in particular that these oldish frames are still a force to be reckoned with.


PLUS..tomcats for top cover!!




FISH.

[ValMORNA]

I'm with Coffman on this. I enjoyed watching them from my chariot in the car park up the hill at Staxton as they 'attacked' the radar station during an exercise in the 1980's. Alas, they have moved on, as have I.

[nimbev]

I remember looking over the Fairchild production line in 1972. The project guys were very proud of their claim that the GAU-8 gatling was the same size as a VW beetle - it seemed gigantic and the 30mm rounds were much bigger than those used in the ADEN 30mm and many other applications. A very impressive brick built s**t house!

[rh200]

A-10 The Warplane Nobody Wanted

I'm fairly sure the Ukranian government would love some.

But With Russia bleating on about it being a breach of international law

If Russia is so worried about International law maybe they should offer Assad the option of basing some Russian air force defense units in their country. Now that would complicate Obama's master plan.

[nimbev]

lightuser

Excellent photo - just as I remember it :ok:

[E-Spy]

Did a run around at Fort Polk a few years back as enemy forces during a FAC-Ex. Had a go on the trailer mounted machine gun and stared up, straight up the barrel, at an A-10 diving at me. Glad it was just training, an awesome sight! :eek:

[Finnpog]

My first experience of the A-10 was similar to E-Spy's in as much that the battlewagon was nose on to me in a slight dive (it seemed) before flipping up it's right wingtip into silly degree angle of bank and whipping away to it's left; my right.

In Euro 1 scheme out of Bentwaters/Woodbridge in c.1980.

Very special.

I had a check out of the Hawgsmoke webpages earlier today. How many times can you capitalise ATTACK. ���� link = http://www.hawgsmoke.com/

With an attitude like that, it should have gone to Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.

And foolish people want to get rid of it? Crazy!

[Bevo]

GAU-8 30mm round from testing nylon bands at Eglin AFB.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r209/TurboBob/Military/GAU-8Round_zps48c3b72c.jpg

33teK7L4DM4

[Ogre]

I guess, like so many other things over the years, it was designed for a specific purpose (most likely beating back the onslaught of tanks rolling across the plains of Germany).

When that purpose was perceived to be no longer there, or the measures brought in to counter it made the purpose no longer as effective/efficient/ cost effective in men and machines then it becomes fair game for the bean counters.

When the battle is "we need to keep it in case X happens again" someone with budget to cut will always say "but that will never happen, scrap it". :(

[tdracer]

As impressive as the Volkswagen sized gun is, it's the 1 liter bottle sized shell that I've found most impressive.


As a long time believer in "form follows function", I've never thought it was an ugly airplane, but I do admit it lacks the sleek style of the F15/F16/F18 fast jets (I don't think the A-10 looks any worse than the F-35).


Ogre, over the years I've heard various pronouncements about why we don't need a certain weapon anymore - for example why we didn't need to put guns/cannons on fighter jets - guided missiles have made them obsolete, or that tanks were obsolete and were just expensive targets, we didn't need them any more. Yet somehow when we send our people into harms way - those weapons turn out to still come in handy...


I continue to be amazed that smart people seem to think the F-35 - a uniquely vulnerable to ground fire aircraft (lightly armored, complex single engine) can replace the A-10 for close air support.

[Ogre]

tdracer, I didn't say I agreed with the sentiment just that it happens on a regular basis!

And yet over and over again we dispatch proven weapons systems to the scrapyard in favour of "new and improved" and the technological developments it offers.

Personaly I prefer "old and inferior", because there is normally less to go wrong...

[chopper2004]

After the end of the Cold War ( has it ended ? Lol ) and Desert Storm - they were going to retire the Warthog did they not and into the Boneyard.....then the Army reckoned they could do with getting some for fast FaC and then the Air Force changed their mind do to historical squabblings over fixed wing assets...

Cheers

[SilsoeSid]

Funny you should say that chopper, had great pleasure a couple of weeks ago watching a 'sounder' of A-10's over the boneyard at Tuscon. Brought back happy memories of trying to put the 'C' into FAC and of course had to give my canon impersonation :ok:

[ExRAFRadar]

Ah the distinctive whine as they passed overhead Berry Hill, amazing turns at low level, seeing them tear Sherpa vans apart with the 30mm at Otterburn.

Halcyon days....

[t43562]

rh200 suggests that the Ukraninan Govt would be glad of some. I wondered if the threat from SAMs is too great. Is this the situation where a pointy jet has a better chance?

[Rhino power]

This made me snigger...
http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2044/Air_Force_Logic_Michael_Yon.png

-RP

[27mm]

Let's not forget the A-9, which although unsuccessful in program selection, looked startlingly similar to the SU-25 Frogfoot......

[Bigpants]

Would be great if they built a new version as a UAV then all the old warhorses could continue the fight in Iraq from the comfort of their own sofa.

Of course one would have to put it into a hold for beer, food and Top Gear...then get back to dealing with ISIS.

[Haraka]

As several contributors have indicated ISTR USAF AX motivation was, in part at least, driven to head off U.S. Army and Marine Corps aspirations vis-a-vis CAS.
For USAF problems regarding U.S.Army fixed wing development , think back to the issues behind the very short life of the DHC 5 Buffalo in US Army service.

Of course these turf squabbles are not limited to the armed forces of the United States.......

[Danny42C]

Reckon that with Assad's Boots on the Ground (are there any other volunteers with any ?), and a few Warthogs in the air, you might more impression on ISIS than by blowing big holes in the desert with expensive 2000 pounders delivered by winkle-picker noses at 450 knots.

But then, what do I know ?

[Tashengurt]

Sturmovik anyone?

[megan]

But then, what do I know ?A few of your Typhoons (the ones powered by Sabre) wouldn't go amiss either Danny.

[Typhoon93]

The A-10 can also be used as a relatively good anti-aircraft jet as well, if I'm not mistaken?

It seems to have most of the key characteristics of a fighter/interceptor of being incredibly responsive, agile and can carry a :mad:tonne of ordinance. Plus they are notoriously difficult to shoot down......

[glad rag]

Reckon that with Assad's Boots on the Ground (are there any other volunteers with any ?), and a few Warthogs in the air, you might more impression on ISIS than by blowing big holes in the desert with expensive 2000 pounders delivered by winkle-picker noses at 450 knots.

But then, what do I know ?

:ok:

FN5p97pQYRI

KISS indeed :D

[27mm]

Nice video of a plonker in a winklepicker nose dropping a dumb bomb in a turn - it doesn't get much sillier than that.......

[con-pilot]

Stolen from another site, where it had been stolen from another site.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/13/aruguba7.jpg

[Flap62]

The A-10 can also be used as a relatively good anti-aircraft jet as well, if I'm not mistaken?

No, not really.

And as for being hard to shoot down, it really depends what with. AK47 yup, modern double digit SAM or fighter with radar missiles - not really.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The USAF roost was always ruled by the fighter pukes.......

[cornish-stormrider]

Damn, that is one ugly mother......er

What was it they said?
Ugly but well hung!

His judgement cometh, and that right soon.

[Robert Cooper]

And just when we have another use for it, the idiots in the Pentagon get rid of it!

Bob C:{

[Vzlet]

...there can be a bit of beauty to the beast. I had a chance to spend a quiet moment with one this past weekend:


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/15228462395_4b57253338_c.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vzlet/15228462395/sizes/c/

[chevvron]

The rock who instructed on my range supervisor course told us he had been supervising a range at Catterick when they spotted 2 x A10 approaching. He fired a red verey at them and told us 'he must have seen it, I saw it bounce off his canopy'.
I've watched them at Holbeach. Very impressive the way they head straight towards the car park, then stand on their wingtip and do a 90 deg turn in a very short radius. Then you see a spurt of smoke from the nose and hear a high pitched buzz which is the sound of the cannon. The target they were using was abeam the control tower as with the GAU 8, the safety trace for the normal target (being used by Harriers firing SNEBs) would have covered most of Boston!

[rh200]

Damn, that is one ugly mother

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I bet if you have your head down getting your @rse shot off, and it shows up on your side it will be the most beautiful thing you have ever seen.

[racedo]

Maybe be FUGLY but when you need it and hear it going by its a thing of beauty because you know the opposition in front ceased to be much of a concern.

From first time I saw pictures I saw it as a thing of beauty, designed to do one thing.

[India Four Two]

When I first saw a small version of this picture, I initially thought the VW was a scale model!

http://www.hightech-edge.com/wp-content/uploads/gau-8-a-30mm-gatlin-gun-vw-beetle-comparison.jpg

[chevvron]

I think the RAF needs to 'borrow' a few of them to fill the gap left by the untimely withdrawl of the Harrier.

[effing Finn]

rh200:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I bet if you have your head down getting your @rse shot off, and it shows up on your side it will be the most beautiful thing you have ever seen.

A Brit friend who was in the Gulf informed me, something like this, it's not the prettiest thing you'll see but it's the first Jesus you'll actually like.

Somebody much earlier posted the "moo of death". That. Is. So. Succint and accurate.

[fitliker]

In my dictionary there is a picture of the A-10 under AWESOME :)

[Hempy]

Let's not forget the A-9, which although unsuccessful in program selection, looked startlingly similar to the SU-25 Frogfoot......

Considering the SU-25 flew some time after (~5 years iirc), I'd say it looked startlingly like the A-9!!

http://www.anigrand.com/images/items/AA2021_YA-9/AA2021_YA-9_real_1.jpg

http://www.iso-group.com/Public/sustainment/Images/Su-25-web-pic.jpg

[MPN11]

Really?
Wings, different profiles
Tailplane, different location

I will concede ... munitions under the wings, root mounted engines and a cockpit on the top near the front, though :)

[ValMORNA]

And, They both had stars on the underside of the wings.


But, One had a single sticky-out thing in the nose, while the other had two.


So, No difficulty telling them apart.

[Bevo]

Well it looks as if the A-10 is not dead yet:

Months after staving off a trip to the boneyard, the embattled A-10 Thunderbolt II is headed to the Middle East where it could be used to fight Islamic militants in Iraq and Syria.
Congress this summer spared the plane from defense cuts. And now some experts say they wouldn’t be surprised to see the almost-mothballed A-10 pulled into the air war in Iraq and Syria, a possibility that could further heat the debate on the plane’s future.http://www.military.com (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/09/27/islamic-state-fight-could-breathe-new-life-into-the-a10.html?ESRC=airforce-a.nl)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

ISTR from an intelligence briefing that the Sovs did have access to the A-9 plans when designing the Frogfoot. Apparently the security classification was downgraded after it lost the competition to the A-10. :ugh:


I think the A-10 is ideal for raghead-bashing! As would be the use of ANG pilots to do it!

[rh200]

I think the A-10 is ideal for raghead-bashing! As would be the use of ANG pilots to do it!

Also further north in Ukraine, a very versatile aircraft.

I see the reports of individual flights costing f%$^ knows how much, to take out a f#$%ing pick up truck, and think, at this F$%ing rate how long and how much is this going to take.

These f%#$kers aren't a modern army that you can strategically degrade, the number of pickup trucks and dead each night should be in the hundreds at least.

[racedo]

Also further north in Ukraine, a very versatile aircraft.

Given the summary executions carried out by the Oligarchs private armys in Ukraine its a place best to stay out of.

[tdracer]

Sometimes you have to wonder if the governments right hand knows what the left hand is doing :sad:.
Today's "Boeing News Now" has an article on Boeing's A-10 re-wing program. Just over 12 months ago, Boeing was awarded a follow on order for 56 more re-wing kits, for a cool $212 million. And despite the USAF stated goal to take the A-10 out of service ASAP, Boeing is not only continuing to build new wing kits but is investing in new tooling to improve productivity in creating the new wings.:confused:

[racedo]

tdracer

How could you be so cruel, there will be employment opportunities coming from this, namely for the people who leave the services joining Boeing.

[Turbine D]

Sometimes you have to wonder if the governments right hand knows what the left hand is doing
Ah, but really a little government foresight to keep the A-10s flying while awaiting the new and better close in support aircraft, the F-35s.:E

[Mechta]

I think the RAF needs to 'borrow' a few of them to fill the gap left by the untimely withdrawl of the Harrier.

If we had had any sense, we would have asked for a 'one for one' swap of our Harriers for A-10s, instead of selling them for 3/5 of b*gg*r all.

[Shaft109]

The thread title says it all for me. Not Airplane. Warplane.

[Fonsini]

The Americans thought we were crazy for practically giving them such well maintained Harriers for such giveaway prices.

I say we buy their entire A-10C fleet off them when the opportunity arises.

[Deepest Norfolk]

"..... a high pitched buzz which is the sound of the cannon."

Are you deaf, Chevvron??

It was the loudest thing I'd ever heard.
We used to send visitors out on to the balcony at Holbeach when the A-10s arrived and place bets on how far they would jump on the first firing!!
Always a good laugh, cruel but fun :)

DN

[rock34]

Always loved it when a "HAWG" checked in with me, as did the rest of the Coy! :E

[AR1]

Recall my father calling me a number of years ago and telling me how he'd seen the Lightnings dropping down on A10's over the Humber and picking them off. Seems that all Airforces really need is the Aircraft they used to have!

[Shaft109]

So, would the A10 be any use in an air to air with something fast and pointy - thinking post merge if they've not been picked off by LR weapons?

[racedo]

So, would the A10 be any use in an air to air with something fast and pointy - thinking post merge if they've not been picked off by LR weapons?

Prob not but then would grunts be grinning seeing a fast and pointy drop a bomb and disappear or an A-10 coming by to say hello to some :mad:.

[tdracer]

So, would the A10 be any use in an air to air with something fast and pointy - thinking post merge if they've not been picked off by LR weapons?
I seem to recall A-10s having a few 'air-to-air' victories in Iraq over helicopters - as I recall an interview with one of the A-10 pilots said something to the effect of 'I gave him a couple second burst, and not much was left' :D. When it comes to fast and pointy, getting 'gun lock' would surely be really hard, but if the A-10 managed you'd be able to fit most of what was left of the fast jet in a shoebox :}

[busdriver02]

So, would the A10 be any use in an air to air with something fast and pointy - thinking post merge if they've not been picked off by LR weapons?

Short answer: no

Longer answer: only if the pointy nosed pilot is incompetent, however the Hawg makes a good helo killer as alluded to but it's really a moot point, the AIM-9X is just as good a helo killer.

[typerated]

Once saw a 4 ship of A-10 fending off 4 F-15C's. The A-10s set up in the bottom of a valley in a defensive circle.


The 15s were circling about 10,000ft above. Occasionally pitching in but breaking off soon as a A-10 further round the circle would pitch up against it. Funny enough the 15s didn't seem to like seeing the front aspect of an A-10.


They didn't seem to get much joy and pushed off.


Might usually be seal clubbing but if the fighters are seen in time it might be a different story.

[Flypro]

Surely, in the areas of the world where the A-10 would presently be of most use, the 'baddies' don't have any fast pointy jets, so what's the problem?:confused:

[rh200]

Surely, in the areas of the world where the A-10 would presently be of most use, the 'baddies' don't have any fast pointy jets, so what's the problem?

1) They could show how useful they are in that sort of situation. Thats bad for all sorts of reasons:p

2) I think ISIL have access to the sorts of weapons that may have a chance of bringing them down in the way they operate. Thats bad for all sorts of reasons. We would be extremely adverse to an captured pilot having their head hacked off on youtube.

[racedo]

We would be extremely adverse to an captured pilot having their head hacked off on youtube.

Don't see that happening or if did then area involved would resemble the moon in terms of craters or be a nice glass area.