Leicester training org and very well respected FI (E) part company

[Blades26]

Heard a rumour that a well known training organisation in Leicester and a very well respected FI (E) from the Boston area have parted company. Can anyone confirm this? If so, its got to be a huge loss for the organisation in question..

[Foureyedflyer]

Heard a similar rumour, that he's just flat out refused to work for them. Don't know anymore than that. Anyone?

Huge loss for them, I should think he's already busy somewhere else though.

[MannyUK]

slightly high jacking this old(ish) thread I also hear that this company is failing to refund a student whom had not started his FI training but they have no-one to train him anymore.

[Efirmovich]

Super bloke, did some mountain flying with him some years ago, a wealth of knowledge !


E.

[Pittsextra]

There must be more to this if it has any truth to it.... I mean why would you decide you didn't want to do work for an organisation that spits out so much work??? Has he retired!!???

[Blades26]

He hasn't retired, that's for sure. He's now working elsewhere. Don't know the circumstances surrounding his departure so I wont speculate. Said organisation doesn't seem to enjoy the most salubrious of reputations though. However, all evidence is anecdotal at present so remaining objective..

[Hughes500]

I hear he is working with Leon at High Wycombe, a sensible honest organisation

[cladosporangium]

I'm sure he will be much better-off with a sensible, honest organisation. :D

[wickednorthernwitch]

If you have ever had any dealings with this company then it should not come as any surprise as they would argue over 2 minutes flying time. I know someone that has recently retired from the company, he retired before his 60th birthday because he refused to fly all daylight hours regardless of weather/serviceability (the "customer" sent out an email and this was backed up by the "company" and the pilots were there were told to do as instructed or they would be replaced. I still have said emails). Fortunately the person I know was not under any personal financial pressure so would only fly if circumstance were right. I wanted to send the emails to the press but I was asked not to but if there were to be a subsequent board of inquiry they would make interesting reading.


During his time with the company there were many arguments over what the company would pay for and very cleverly they never put the "agreement" in writing. Over the course of his time with the company he was not paid multiple thousands of pounds for hours flown. The company billed the customer for ALL hours flown and they expected the pilot to fly 7 hours but only paid them for 5 hours gaining the company up to £100 per day per pilot.


I could go on and on and I frequently do!


I can also obtain documentary evidence to back up what I have said if the need ever arises that I am required to prove my case and I would be happy to do so.


Is it a surprise to me that the company is rumoured to be arguing over money? NO!!! It is a surprise though that the rumour has been made public as the company had a policy that the pilots were not allowed to discuss their pay even with each other.

[flight beyond sight]

I am quite touched by your comments but the person in question is not working here at Wycombe.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Well could someone name this company as I am meant to be on an instructor seminar in Leicester in a couple of weeks

[Blades26]

Wickednorthernwitch, I wasn't aware of any 'rumour made public' until now!
A very interesting read, however. Crazybroadsword, there is only one helicopter ATO in Leicester.
And agreed, Leon and co down at High Wycombe - first class, very swept up organisation..

[whodictus]

WNW
Think you are on thin ice with slander the things you say are old hat we all agreed at the time the wages, which at least we were paid. After having agreed a contract certain people then felt they were hard done too. The person you were talking about was due a Base/Line check that would only be usable for three to four weeks this would not make good business sense to any one. Even those who have never run a company!

[Pittsextra]

whodictus so why did this guy leave, given he was making (by any normal metric) a lot of money working there.

[whodictus]

The thing that bold young pilots don't consider, age and commercial license

[Pittsextra]

So he feels too old and is now retired?

[Blades26]

Whodictus, 'Commercial license' unlikely to be a factor for two reasons.
1. Said FI (E) turned 60 several years ago, so obviously hasn't been doing CAT since
2. Age; fair point but doesn't explain why he's now busy, working elsewhere...

[HeliHenri]

.

Blade26,

As you know where he is working now, why don't you ask him directly ?

.

[Blades26]

HH, haven't a clue where he is working now. Just heard from a reliable source that he's gone to another ATO. If I did know, I wouldn't have asked the question on here..

[HeliHenri]

.

Sorry about that B26, I thought that you were asking why, not where.

As you wrote "a well known training organisation" and "a very well respected FI (E)" knowing the names of the organisation and the FI, I thought that your "elsewere..." was one more secret message ! ;)

.

[wickednorthernwitch]

"whodictus" is correct in stating that they were paid unlike the previous company that had the contract when getting paid became an issue. I believe, happy to be corrected if wrong, someone was paid all the money owed as knowledge is power. The issue with the Leicester based company is the amount paid.


Just because something is "old hat" does not mean it is not true but that is in my opinion. The person that I know was due to have his OPC on 30 March but his last working day was 7 January 2014. That is almost 3 months and not 3-4 weeks! If "whodictus" is a pilot I hope that their maths is better when calculating pilot things as a third of a tank of fuel will not take you as far as a full tank! If "whodictus" is running a company then I would expect there to be major financial discrepancies unless their maths improve!



"crazybroadsword" I always find it better to pay for things on credit card as it gives you extra protection. With a debit card you can request a "chargeback" in certain circumstances.

The person I know started with the Leicester based company on short notice with a verbal contract and the promise of a written contract to be forthcoming. The issue of hours flown versus hours paid were not a problem as they would be rectified once on "contract". Unfortunately he was very naïve to believe that a handshake meant something between ex-service personnel.


His finishing with them coincided with an email from the company stating " ....... we need to pull the finger out at this time of year or I'll find someone who will". This was in response to an email from the customer (a large National utilities company) "...... you can be on the pipeline until last light and land by last light + 30minutes ....... if its daylight you fly". Daylight being 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sunset


I would interpret this as "commercial pressure". Maybe I am wrong and I am happy to be corrected.


If my memory serves me correctly when operating VFR the pilots are "supposed" to be able to see certain distances both vertically and horizontally and cannot fly VFR if they cannot SEE, the clue is in the title Visual Flight Rules. I would be interested to learn how many pilots think that it is routinely acceptable to fly low level after sunset in the depth of winter - those that fly VFR in fog need not respond (and they are out there!)

[fluffy5]

Good on Mr D, he spent many a year putting up with their tosh, hopefully he has getting along nicely without them. A few times having a cup of tea at his place, before having a quick fly in the B206. And as for slander raising it's ugly head again, I believe there has been no mention of a company name. But rather funny that there are quite a few displeased people.

[staticsource]

I would be happy to fly 30mins before sunrise to 30mins after sunset on a VFR flight!! Just depends on the circumstances. :hmm: But I suppose I don't know the full story on this thread.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Only paid a deposit I never pay for anything up front in aviation :)

[whodictus]

Blades
WNW was referring to some one else this that flew utilities, not FI in question this has caused the confusion.

[wickednorthernwitch]

Yes I was referring to someone who flew "utilities" for the same company that this thread is referring to. This person held the FI in question in very high regard as in his dealings with him he was very professional and honourable.


The FI left the company for a reason and as "whodictus" seems to know so much about the "inside workings" of the company maybe "whodictus" would like to put this whole thing to bed and explain to everyone just "why did this well respected FI just up and leave?"

I was just sharing my opinion from second hand knowledge (from a number of sources) of the company that this FI worked for. After all it is the same people that one interacts with within the company be they utilities or not.


Having made my point I am now withdrawing from the debate but will monitor the outcome. Good luck with getting the truthful answer.

[cladosporangium]

WNW
Good point.
Whodictus seems to have "insider knowledge".
So what was the reason your FI(E) decided to leave?

[whodictus]

I am not an insider just someone who is aware of the damage that can be caused when both sides of a story are not visible. To me personally the people I feel for are the students who have been let down seemingly at the last moment by the FI. Does integrity mean nothing, don't you have to give notice to quit? i know I do and I guess so do most of you. It appears this did not happen thus allowing the students to turn up. I leave you to now point the finger but thing before you do so!

[Pittsextra]

Why the anger? I figured from your bold/young pilot post that there was a medical issue??

Maybe I need to get better at riddles?!

What surprises me is that given the tweets/ Facebook/ website / scholarship communications no word from the school... Which in conjunction with your last post suggests it wasn't a happy parting.

[cladosporangium]

Integrity is not something that this FI(E) is short on but reading other posts it may not be his integrity in question.

I too feel sorry for the students involved but they have a contract with the flying school and it is up to them to fulfil their obligations or refund the students money so that they can go elsewhere.


The bottom line is that the company failed to fulfil its obligation to the students by allowing the FI(E) to be in such a contractual position that he could just walk out.

[hu269]

Does anyone know who the FI(E) in question is working with now?
hu269

[Nosuchwordasgullible]

Well said Clado, schools who demand payment in full before a course starts, usually do so because they need the cash flow. If they will not refund in full when they cancel, it may well be because they no longer have your cash. I appeal to all young wannabes not to pay upfront, no matter what the incentives / promises are made, find a school that accepts stage payments or a reasonable deposit and can be trusted with your money. Ensure that you have a written agreement of what will happen in the event of cancellation. If an ATO will not reasonably agree to such an arrangement, think long and hard before you pitch in with them.
Regardless, any outfit that will not refund advance monies immediately upon cancellation/ non delivery are not to be condoned and others should take heed. Surely, other than documented non refundable deposits, Companies have no right to retain funds placed on account. Such funds should be repayable on demand.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Spoke to them this week they refunded my deposit within half an hour

[TOT]

Well there are plenty of negative remarks on this thread.
But speak as I find.
I was originally booked onto the September FI course, which was subsequently cancelled. I received an email offering me a place on the December FI Course.
I wrote back and told them this didn't work for me.
I received the full refund within 24 hours.
Thank you yarmail.

[Pittsextra]

To be fair getting a refund is ultimately a given when the service that was offered couldn't be delivered. The question asked some days ago was why this guy has decided to stop working for Leicester. It seems that getting an answer to that in simple, un-riddled language, is proving hard. That suggests either people don't really know or there is a story behind the departure.

[hu269]

I find it a bit odd that they haven't got someone else in after this length of time, as turning people away because they can't provide an FI course must be costly for the business especially as they claim to be in desperate need of instructors due to sheer numbers of students?? Are the other examiners refusing to go there for some reason?

[JoshG]

I heard they were getting a chap called Mike Green in to take over the FI examiner role.
Josh

[hu269]

In conversation today someone mentioned that the school in question has decided to stop providing the FI course and concentrate on the PPL and CPL courses only. Sounds like a good opportunity for other schools who are able to provide the instructors rating, although it makes a bit of a mess of the FI scholarship they were offering for next year?

[fluffy5]

Well if the rumour is true, then by taking away the instructor route would not be a particular bright thing to do. I do not think they would do that. But then again if there was something behind the departing of mr D, then the other F.I instructors or examiners would be a little cautious, like mr G, mr B or mr S, just to name a few.
And sometimes they do not like to come and do their business on another mans area, unless it is for a rather a lot of money. But most have integrity because they know later on they would be the ones who may require help.

Fluffy

[Pittsextra]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/BOOKS/Pix/pictures/2011/1/17/1295278375738/Sherlock-Holmes-007.jpg

[Blades26]

The plot thickens, then.
As usual and in this case, threads evolve and often go off on unrelated and sometimes unjust tangents.
That said, there appears to be some (anecdotal/unproven?) bad press surrounding this particular ATO at present. So, Fluffy - I fully concur with your apparent train of thought!

[Gordon Bennet]

I hear that Helicopter Services now have their FI refresher course approved, and that there is one happening around mid-October. The CAA will not accept fixed wing ones for helicopter pilots!

Gord

[Blades26]

That's great news, thanks for this Gordon.
Was going to be my next question. I know several people that need their FI's renewing