VFR Belgium - Nav from EBSG to EDKL (Koln)

[joffrey.m]

Hi All,

I'm planning to fly to Koln from St Ghislain in Belgium and I wanted your expert advice/feedback on the VFR flight in Belgian controlled airspaces.

I'm planning EBSG GSY LGE NOR EDKL at FL55 or 75. (if weather is ok of course)

My first contact would be Charleroi APP to enter their TMA and then I guess they will hand over to Liege and so on.

Do you think this is the right thing to do? Is GSY a good idea as I will come in the runway axis?

What would you do?

Thank you ;)

Joffrey

[soaringhigh650]

Of course - you need to obtain clearance to enter controlled airspace, and they will hand you over to another frequency when the time comes.

Do you actually have a current pilot's license or are you just being funny?

[hoodie]

He means "Welcome to PPRuNe"", Joffrey. :hmm:

You could fly that route as you suggest, but a straight line route takes you N of the Charleroi Class C so unless you've a particular training wish to do the transit you might want to think about keeping clear. LGE is not located on the airfield, so Liege may find it easier if you route through their overhead rather than over the VOR. Norvenich is similar to the comment above for Charleroi, in that routing outside and N of the Class D is more on your direct route than the NOR is.

You may be asked to freecall Liege and Norvenich instead of getting a handover; I wouldn't necessarily expect one.

[dirkdj]

I would suggest EBSG-GSY-LNO-NOR-EDDK at 4500ft.
All airspace above 4500ft is controlled in Belgium but you know that I suppose.
You will need to talk to and get clearance from EBCI, EBLG and then Brussels Info in Belgium. Probably Langen Info and Koln in Germany. On weekends it will be much easier due to less military traffic.

You will need the VFR approach chart for EDDK as well (Bottlang or DFS).
If you don't have it yet you can download a 30 day trial for Skydemon, this type of flight planning is much easier on PC or tablet.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Welcome to pprune indeed. Further to Dirk's suggestions, I would say '4500 AMSL or higher' - at exactly 4500 is the airspace boundary plus it is the default transition altitude, perhaps a bit confusing. Also, flying higher will reduce the number of services/authorities/frequencies you need to talk to.

And, if Dirk will excuse me for being pecky on details, Brussels info cannot and will not give you a clearance - they have however been known to negotiate with whatever authority that you want clearance from, and relay it to you in their place. I suppose this is what was meant. Nothing keeps you from talking to them directly, however.

Before take-off, try to learn whether nearby Chièvres is active - they rarely are, but if their airspace is active and you happen to stray in you might get in trouble - this is the USAF! If you can't get the info before take-off, stay clear of their airspace and ask either themselves or Brussels Information 126.900 about their status.

A last word, beware of the area R02 over the NATO/SHAPE headquarters and the city of Mons, it has been known to be incorrectly drawn on some maps. People at EBSG can tell you.

[joffrey.m]

Hi,

Thank you all for your welcome and replies, it helps a lot ;)

Yes I know that above 4500' it's a class C airspace controlled by brussels (DEP I think). So indeed it could be easier to go there, over all the TMA's.

Thanks for the routing suggestion, I think I'll probably do that instead, it'll be easier when crossing the border. I'll avoid Maastricht TMA.

I'll fly on the weekend so Mil airspaces shouldn't be acctive, I'll check with Bxl Info.
About R-02, yes I'm planing to head SE, along Charleroi TMA01 and contact them before turning to GSY.

Otherwise, I'll continue S of Charleroi to join LNO. I won't be bothered by the stack of airspaces like in the N route.

I just wanted to make sure this was a good idea to do that in Belgium, because I'm used to fly in France and that's so easy to get a clearance to cross controlled zones!

Thanks,

Joffrey

[Piper19]

I would file a flight plan VFR with a FL above the TMAs; then with first controller contact (Bru info or Charleroi app e.g..) I would ask clearance to climb to FL... in accordance with the flight plan. Most of the time they will say you to standby as they have to coordinate this with Bru Dep, but you will already get an initial climb, e.g. a climb in the EBCI TMA within their boundaries. I never had problems this way, sometimes you get a slightly lower FL.
One advice though from own experience: while flying above the TMAs is quite comfortable and relaxed, you are more likely to encounter weather at these altitudes. So be prepared if you have to descend to remain VFR, it gets a whole lot busier contacting all frequencies you were not expected to contact. So it's good to prepare a lower flying plan B.

[Sam Rutherford]

Brussels Info will steer you (or get your clearances) for you. It is possible that Belga Radar will take over from them if you're going near the ranges towards the German/French border - but they'll sort it for you as well.


Lazy flying, definitely. Safe flying, definitely.


It is extremely rare that I can't fly an absolutely straight line out of EBCI to my destination - they can usually coordinate the whole thing. Great service.


Fly safe, Sam.

[TWR]

I'm planning EBSG GSY LGE NOR EDKL at FL55 or 75

You can't file VFR-levels in controlled airspace in Belgium. Only IFR-levels.
So FL050 (if it exists) or 070.