HQ Bus Departure (STD-75)

[Rim-job]

So let me get this straight...

We use to depart HQ's at STD-70 and now it's STD-75. It was supposed to be a temporary thing to aid with the runway closures. Now it's been implemented as SOP.

So it essentially gives us 5 mins to finish up our briefings... gather our belongings and transport all of the crew to a bus. Seems to me a bit tight, especially if people are going to be sitting there with clipboards, stop watches and monitoring every second of every move. The 10 mins use to be manageable and if we left a bit early great. But this sprint from briefing room to bus is going a bit overboard. I've literally seen crew running to the bus. WTF?

Pursers are more concerned with this bus departure timing then they are with briefings (more specifically ours) and theirs.

I'm all about having guidelines and a time frame to work within but you can only squeeze so much out of us.

Is it just me or is something wrong with this picture?

[BDD]

What airline??

[kirungi1]

Perhaps, one operating out of the United Arab Emirates ;).

[Rim-job]

Sorry gents...

I'm referring to EK.

[gehenna]

This is driven by the 'service delivery' fools. To them safety is of no importance, and furthermore they have no jurisdiction over the flight deck crews.

I go to the bus when I am ready, and have briefed the crew as required by the OM-A; if that is 'late' in their interpretation, so be-it. I will not answer to cabin crew personnel, unless they can tell me why I should explain how I can be late when I am not on duty until STD -1hr, which is well after the bus departure time.

That's my argument, but I am sure many will disagree.

[sluggums]

Totally agree.

[777-200LR]

Agree with gehenna


Is this supposed to improve the OTP? I don't see how without anything else changing; ZFW via ACARS is still -50, auto boarding -45 and doors closure -3

[CaptainChipotle]

Like I said in a previous post on a different topic, and again just my 2 cents, I think we should be more concerned as a GROUP of pilots about our time AFTER we block in. More Days off to rest/recover from time changes, circadian rhythm disruptions, being in a pressurized tube for countless hours bouncing around. At my last job I had to drive myself 40 mins to the airport, park, get a bus to the terminal, deal with immigration, security and the long line to get a coffee (whoops, not allowed here). I need more than 2 days off after a ULR before a rest day and a night turn.

We all know being on the bus 5 mins earlier isn't going to accomplish anything, so do your job as per the OMA and if you're late, you're late... "sorry, had to drop off laundry and there was a line" "I had to check in at 2 different kiosks" "I had to walk across to the opposite side to drop off my bag because only one belt was working" "I got lost" "I was flirting with the barista at costa, but NO SIR, I didn't order a coffee"

Keep discovering.

[Rim-job]

Couldn't agree more with the above posts. And trust me, I haven't changed a thing when it comes to my briefings, the timing of them, nor the rate at which I collect by stuff and walk to the bus. I couldn't give a flying fak to be honest.

I just find it ironic that they preach this safety culture attitude yet they let service delivery dictate stuff like this. Unbelievable!!

[Panther 88]

Unfortunately the pursers are under incredible pressure to be out of the briefing rooms on time. They are watched and reported on by cabin crew minions trolling the hallways.

OTOH, we are supposed to check all of documents, check new FCIs, evaluate whether or not ETOP alternates are suitable and review 70+ pages of NOTAMS. Of course we can just brief the first hour of the flight, but this is getting ridiculous. None of which counts towards FTDTLs. It's a two edge sword, piss off your purser and "lose the team" being late for the combined brief or do the "brief" checking all of the garbage that is supposed to be checked.

drip, drip, drip. They're just slow boiling the frog and guess who's in the water. A little here and a little there. :ugh:

[harry the cod]

I agree with everything that's said here but, once again, will ask the question has anyone taken the time and effort to write to JA? 12 posts are great for a gripe and moan but will have zero effect. 200 emails to JA might!

Harry

[form717]

Harry I'm kinda new with EK but I'd consider writing to him on this topic as I feel quite strongly about it (actually, I'm pretty damn pissed about it!). Have you written yourself, and if so, how did you broach the subject?

Anyone ever tried turning up AT sign-on time just to see what would happen?

[linedriva]

Ha! I didn't even know it had changed! I just go in and do my thing and leave for the bus when we're done!

Having said that, I've never seen the aircraft delayed because we weren't there on time - It's always other things.

The delay in leaving the aircraft and then HQ after a flight are more aggravating to me - and it seems to be getting worse.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Reporting times is one of those chestnuts that raise their head every now and then. In the UK there have been many discussions at high level about reporting times at air side crew rooms. Are crew on duty before they pass though security or in some cases (long haul) check their bags in prior to going to the air side crew room? What's the definition of duty blah de blah.
In the end it boils down for either the airline to assess / manage or relies on crews good will as it has done for the last xx years.
Bit like me Office bod 0900-1730 probably done that a dozen times in 30+ years.
I could mention that Pilots are Managers (but possibly paid like Directors???) and once off the aircraft (albeit late) don't have to take too many worries back home with them whereas a lot of "Office types" do.....Mate of mine works in a commercial Dept for an airline has to make xxxxxxx $ a month or if not staff don't get paid or vultures circle.

[harry the cod]

Mr Angry

Most guys would rather get to work early to allow for prep but when it's mandated to be actually on a bus with the crew, 15 minutes before official report, it's a piss take. The main problem is the report times are not linked. The purser gets a ****ty email when they're literally one minute late asking for the reason. They don't send us an email, knowing all too well the response they'd get. As for the post landing duties, this has become a joke.

If the Company wants a joint brief, the time should be included in the duty time. Otherwise I will brief them when I'm done.

As for the letter to JA, just write a fact based concern.

Harry

[QCM]

Looong bus ride to C34...cockpit at -55 only...ready without rush at -10 and late departure at +15 waiting connecting bags...

[glofish]

Writing is fine, but .....

The new EK strategy is to call in the blokes who write anything.
It's a call in to "discuss" the matter, no punishment intended, is what they say.

But it will be on your precious day off!

That's the strategy to discourage us to write. Who on earth wants to go to the pink palace on his day off?

See the drift? Let's continue to discover dissuasion strategies ..... :ugh:

[jack schidt]

Anyone thought that you lot writing this here would make them change the pickup time 10mins earlier, be careful!

[harry the cod]

glofish

Not heard of that but that doesn't mean to say it's not happening. Easy solution, file a Confidential Report. Makes arranging 'meetings' on days off somewhat more difficult when they don't know who to contact! ;)

Jack

That wouldn't solve anything. It's the official start of duty that's being contested here. They can bring it forward 5 hours or 5 days but until the OMA changes, you're not legally required to undertake any duty at the behest of the Company unless it's clearly stated as such. We're not the cause of delays, neither are the cabin crew.

Harry

[ekwhistleblower]

If you write and are actuall trying to change something why would you not use 'your precious day off" to clarify and convince. Either it is important or it is trivial but I know no line of work where you have the luxury to do everything on your own schedule or have the arrogance to believe you would.

I'll bet you'd go to HQ for a coffee and muffin with your mate, so next time agree to meet said manager at Costa, you might even get him to pay!

[Praise Jebus]

Perhaps ask yourself why this was raised in Fleet Facts and not an FCI then respond accordingly.....

[Outatowner]

Hi fellas!
Sorry but you are all full of poop especially you whistle blower. You sound european. Trying to convince people to go to the HQ on a day off?? TF???? And then I lost you in gibberish.

No one has written to me (althoug I don't check ) and I never leave at the BS time they stipulate.

TOGA was forced to write that. He doesn't believe in it but has to for the money.

[checcker10]

Had a purser come to me other day whilst down route all in a panic about us leaving in bus 3 mins late from HQ. 3rd email she had got and was all worried about her manager etc etc.
Told her to blame pilot briefing for late departure. And guess what, I haven't heard a peep outta them. The CCMs aren't going to challenge anything to do with safety and briefings from our side....
But they might get pick up from home moved forward if we bitch to JA

[THRCLB]

Agree ...The most likely outcome is to move the pickup time forward :oh:
Out of curiosity ..have you ever being called late for arriving late to ( Ac , bus , HQ ..etc ) earlier than 1hr-STD

[harry the cod]

No, never. Was at aircraft -55 the other day after leaving at -75, A/c on 'C' stand. We were still all done 10 minutes before STD even with MEL to resolve.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The crew are NOT the reason for delays. The Company can use whatever pick up time it bloody likes but our start time is what's in the OMA. This idea that if we complain may bring the pick up time forward is just daft and is missing the point completely.

Harry