Do you laugh or cry ?

[RetiredBA/BY]

Thought this might raise a smile or a tear of despair ! Many of you guys will remember Wroughton airfield (now used for storage by the Science Museum) from its RAF, RN or PM hospital days.

I was model flying there when a glider (from Dunstable) landed after running out of lift.
The pilot requested permission from the site manager to carry out an Aerotow back to base. The runway was smooth, over 3000 feet long with 10 knots right down the middle, perfect. No problem at all, BUT he was refused permission. The site manager declined for "safety reasons".

Turns out the pilot was retired Army bomb disposal (IED) specialist.

Can you imagine it, a bomb disposal officer being refused permission for a simple aerotow retrieve on SAFETY ground. You couldn't make it up !

[Lima Juliet]

I guess the problem lies in a number of areas? As a Govt Aerodrome (even if disused) then they would need some fire cover of some sort (JSP426 and all, plus the BGA Laws and Rules requires a fire extinguisher at the launch point?). Has the runway been swept so that the tug or glider dosen't have a nose over on landing when it's tyres have gone flat? What about obstacle clearance (as most glider tug combos make about 3-400ft per minute at best)? Etc???

If the site manager had allowed the glider/tug to take off and there had been an fatal accident then both he and the Head of Establishment would be in the Coroner's Court. Both would get it in the neck from their own organisation as well - no one has authorised them to operate aircraft from their establishment.

Things have changed since 'dig my heel in the ground, stick a finger in the air and think "that looks about right"!' For better or worse, it was probably the right decision to get a trailer over and take it home that way... Discretion being the better part of valour...

LJ :ok:

[RetiredBA/BY]

Not sure I agree with you. He was very happy with the runway,obstacles etc., for an aerotow retrieve, so was I (I am a gliding instructor with a lot of tow experience too) and all safety considerations could be met as here:

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clubmanagement/documents/aerotownotes.pd

[longer ron]

Landing in a glider is about the only way to get in there - it is a national disgrace that we no longer have access to all the treasures at Wroughton !

[Yamagata ken]

CYA. It's more than my job's worth.

[longer ron]

Reminds me of many years ago when I was a young J/T on 231 OCU - in the line toilets - on the inside of one of the 'trap' doors was a poster !

It said -'Promote Flight Safety' to which some wag had added -

'By not Fokin Flying' !

I often wonder if that author is now running ATC Gliding or perhaps Wroughton :)

[Genstabler]

Shows the Pongos have a good sence of humour!

[500N]

Two infringement tickets were issued by the Regimental Police. One was for passing a 4 tonner on the wrong side, the other was for going through a red traffic light.


Good to see someone had a sense of humour ! :ok:

[Courtney Mil]

Had he been a pilot, rather than an IED expert, they might have let him fly!

[Wander00]

Flew WD935 into Wroughton on its last flight in about 1967, and went to a Large Model Association meeting there many years later, when they also opened the reserve collection hangar(s). What treasures.

[BEagle]

The sniffy attitude of the Science Museum 'custodians' of Wroughton has to be experienced at first hand to be believed. A bigger load of jobsworths it is hard to imagine.....

[Thud105]

Definetly cry. 3,000ft runway and 10kts on the nose - you could probably take a C-47 and get a Horsa or Waco out! In fact, I bet the runway situation was probably better than homeplate! It seems that everyone in the UK is scared of their own shadow.

[Wander00]

Jenkins - do tell, other than the hospital

[Lima Juliet]

Retired BA

From your link it states:

FIRE TRUCK
On an unlicensed airfield there is not normally a requirement to have any fire fighting and rescue equipment. However, it is strongly suggested that some sort of truck containing fire fighting equipment, rescue equipment and first aid kit is available. A list of actions in the event of an accident should also be kept in that vehicle. Immediate communications with the emergency services should always be available, so make sure the airfield mobile phone is charged and on the ground where it’s needed. If your club has such a vehicle or facility, please ensure that it is actually available for immediate use. Murphy’s Law says the truck is stuck in the back of the hangar just when it is needed!

My bold added :ok:

LJ

PS. I had a retireve at my airfield last night by a glider from Lasham. We stood up fire cover and the tug lifted after normal hours to take him home. I'm all for the gliding movement and do not have an axe to grind.

[nutnurse]

Re. post 12 - I used to know somebody who'd worked for the Science Museum at Wroughton. This person's CV contained any number of short-term 'permanent' jobs with glowing references, including the one from the Science Museum. They turned out to be a power-hungry jobsworth and had to be paid to leave.

[dctyke]

Talking of a jobs worth always takes me back to 2003 when I was at HQSTC. My 1 star boss had just come back from an official visit to Henlow in a staff car. He gave me a RAF Police parking ticket he had found under the wiper and asked me to sort it. Noting the name of the brave Cpl that issued it I managed to get though to him at Henlow. He insisted that the Air Cdre must turn up at Hendon Police office in person with his driving docs within 5 days. I advised him it would be a bad idea to do that to his Air Officer Commanding. He then went on to say he believed I was trying to pervert the course of justice and I could be in trouble. I decided to give up then and had a chat with his FS asking if he really wanted my boss to come back. The ticket ended up in the bin..........

[Avionker]

Talking of a jobs worth always takes me back to 2003 when I was at HQSTC. My 1 star boss had just come back from an official visit to Henlow in a staff car. He gave me a RAF Police parking ticket he had found under the wiper and asked me to sort it. Noting the name of the brave Cpl that issued it I managed to get though to him at Henlow. He insisted that the Air Cdre must turn up at Hendon Police office in person with his driving docs within 5 days. I advised him it would be a bad idea to do that to his Air Officer Commanding. He then went on to say he believed I was trying to pervert the course of justice and I could be in trouble. I decided to give up then and had a chat with his FS asking if he really wanted my boss to come back. The ticket ended up in the bin........

So your boss is too lazy or too arrogant to park legally, iaw Station Standing Orders. An RAF Police Cpl issues a parking ticket, and insists that the person responsible for parking illegally take responsibility for their actions. And that makes him a jobsworth?

[Out Of Trim]

First Mistake was asking for permission! Aero tow arrives, hooks up and you both depart. Bye,bye to the problem...

[dctyke]

So would you have rushed out and tell him to move it? And far from arrogant he was one of the best bosses I've ever had. As for SSO's, did anyone read them when visiting a unit..... In fact did anyone really read their own units edition...

[typerated]

I'm with you OOT.

I have aerotowed out of some interesting places after 'landing out' - many where the only way to have got the trailer in was by Heli!

I was once landed out in the North island of New Zealand. At the time the Pawnee tug was U/S so, when I knew I was committed to landing I chose a field next to a farm lane for easy access with the trailer.

Upon landing I walked round the field and to my surprise there was no gate in the boundary fence. The crazy Kiwi farmer had a field with no gate and I had managed to land it - bugger! I walked round again to make sure I wasn't losing the plot, but no the field had no gate. I called up the club and told them my predicament and asked they send out quite a few strong blokes as we would have to lift the glider out of the 'paddock' as the locals call it.

Sure enough a while later the cavalry arrive with 6 or 7 blokes to help. The driver takes one look at the field and says " You stupid bloody Pom", then walks over to part of the fence, picks it up and rolls it back to form an opening. " It's a bloody Taranaki fence you dumb s**t". Glider in trailer 5 mins later!

What I did not know then was that the local farmers were often too tight to put in a real gate and just left a part of the fence that could be rolled back then tied up (called a Taranaki fence) - if you looked carefully you could see the hoof marks in the grass where cattle had previously gone through the opening.

As is the custom, the landing out pilot buys his retrieve crew dinner and a beer - bloody expensive landing that was!

Moral of the story (apart from a few negative things about Kiwis) - If you can aerotow out of the field then do so!

I have also had the experience of flying cross country - checking the trailer before flying that is good to go. I ended up landing in a ploughed field (if you are ever tempted to do so don't!) I imagine it is similar to catching an arrestor hook! When the retrieve crew arrived to pick me up they didn't bring the trailer - someone had borrowed the trailer to move something totally unconnected with aircraft and taken it overnight! The trailer thief had gone along the line of trailers till he found one without a glider inside then chose to borrow that one!.


Must be some good landing out stories out there!

[Duchess_Driver]

Most of the time it is easier to seek forgiveness than ask for permission!

Fond(ish) memories of the place early 70's as young DD.

[1.3VStall]

typerated,

My favourite land out story was the Bicester Ka6 which landed out in Norfolk in the '70s.

At that time Bicester had two Ka6s and therefore two trailers. The crew hitched up one of the trailers and raced to Est Anglia to retrieve their pilot.

When they got to the field they rolled up to the glider and opened the trailer doors - the other Ka6 was inside the trailer.

'Twas one of the longest retrieves on record!:)

[Thud105]

My favorite (possibly apocryphal) landing-out story was related to me by an old RAF buddy a good few years back.
Apparently (allegedly) a glider landed at RAF Syerston, which is (was?) an Air Cadet-operated field.
Well, the young RAFVR Pilot Officer really laid into the pilot of the civilian registered sailplane. When he eventually paused for breath the elderly glider pilot replied "I really am very sorry about all this - and we haven't even been introduced. My name is Air Vice-Marshal XXX (I forget) - shall we start again?"
I don't know if its true - but I really hope it is!

[Lima Juliet]

Thud, the "XXX" could be the surnames of Brownlow, Sturley or Reynolds - all keen glider pilots that fly G reg aircraft. So your story is definately plausible :ok:

LJ

[1.3VStall]

Thud,

The definitive, and true, version of your story is AVM Don Spottiswood landing a Discus at Abingdon during the Inter-Services Gliding Competition in the late '70s.

The Air Traffic landrover was dispatched into the middle of the airfield to collect Don and deliver him to the Tower.

On arrival in the Tower Don was subject to a tirade of abuse from the local controller, the gist of which was that glider pilots were a bunch of unprofessional [email protected], etc.

Don, an RAF pilot with several thousand hours, remained silent until the tirade finished at which point he retrieved his ID from his wallet, proffered it and said "Flt Lt, shall we start this conversation again?".

[Thud105]

That's truly brilliant - and great. Thanks OnePointThree. You've made an old man very happy!

[nutnurse]

No wonder he was doing a Flt Sgt's job - you could scarcely trust someone like that as DATCO.

[Sandy Parts]

I had by all accounts a perfect un-powered arrival at Wroughton some 46 years ago. Luckily my parents received 9 months prior notice and were handily on-site to effect a recovery :p

[thing]

I landed out some years ago but managed to make it to another glider field. The tuggy kindly offered to tow me back half way to 5,000' from where I could final glide back. He told me how much it would cost and I decided a trailer retrieve would be cheaper. I thanked him and declined the offer. The en route meals and beers for the retrieve crew cost me more than the tug would have. Noted and filed.

I played a volleyball match at Wroughton once. It was dark when we arrived and dark when we left. I remember seeing the gym.

Edit: talking about elfin safety, a good mate and flying oppo of mine was SFSO at a well known secret airbase. The stock joke was when being questioned by the AOC 'And what do you contribute to flight safety Flt Lt ***** ?'

'I stay on the ground sir.'

[1.3VStall]

Thud,

Glad you enjoyed the truth.

Don Spot sadly departed the fix earlier this year - he was truly an "airship" of the old school, much admired and sadly missed.

[Thud105]

I wonder how many AVMs fly for fun these days?

[parabellum]

Boring, boring I know, but in the instance, outlined by the OP, it is possible that Wroughton don't carry any insurance for flying machines now, and could not be satisfied that the tug and glider had appropriate or sufficient third party cover either. Just a possibility. :)

[gzornenplatz]

Back in the early 60s when was a lowly SAC and gliding at Upavon, I did a CPL groundschool at Wroughton. Just for fun. I peeked in in one of the hangars which was jam-packed solid with Hunters and Javelins.

[Mechta]

The definitive, and true, version of your story is AVM Don Spottiswood landing a Discus at Abingdon during the Inter-Services Gliding Competition in the late '70s.

I know the Discus is a good glider, but I didn't realize it was that good; a time traveller as well! (First flight - 1984)

[goudie]

landing a Discus at Abingdon

Might well have been a Blanik, they had them at Bicester IIRC

[Nervous SLF]

I attended many happy hours at Wroughton as a marshal at motorcycle race meetings organised by the North Gloucester MCC in
association with the R.A.F.M.S.A.
I am sure it was there that there were some very old Canberra's which we had a good look at until the R.A.F. plod politely asked
us to move away from them.
Anyone notice that yesterday Peter Hickman riding a R.A.F. Reserves Honda won a round of the British Superbikes competition
his very first from memory ?

[teeteringhead]

Had my "snip" at Wroughton - the Hospital of course! :ok:

Quite painless physically but 2 things caused some anxiety:

1. I knew one of the attending nurses from MEDEVACS and ... er .... socially in a previous existence of mine. :O

2. Was given a Walkman to listen to - with a James Last tape. And I :mad:in' hate James Last. (only 2 tracks tho'! Well done the snipper :ok:)

[RetiredBA/BY]

Geez, its get worse, now I am being censored.

After contacting the Science Museum management in which I stated that an aerotow from Wroughtons's runway is perfectly feasible (it is, its 4000 feet long, 150 wide, with a slight slope and no obstacles at either end, I have done 100s of aerotows out of much shorter strips with Chipmunks, including heavy metal Russian gliders at the World Championships at S Cerney, ) but is not allowed by the site manager (because it would be a hazard to the artefacts stored in blast resistant hangars !!) they have asked me and Pete not to publicise the fact because "I don't have the full picture of the site complex". I do have all the operational facts I could possibly need to conduct a perfectly safe aerotow. I've flown jets out of shorter runways !

I suggested in conversation with Pete Stratten at the BGA that he spreads the word that whilst aerotowing from Wroughton is perfectly feasible from a technical point of view, it is not permitted so perhaps is best avoided if an aerotow is hoped for. That knowledge might just save someone from an awful lot of hassle.

Spread the word, guys.

[Fareastdriver]

Donkey's years ago at Odiham when Pumas were fairly new AOC 38 Group, as it was in those days, decided to accompany a crew on a weekend task to see how they performed. It was an underslung detail with the gunners up at Sennybridge. It involved refuelling at Leeming and so we arrived. We were directed to an area of the dispersal, shut down and awaited the bowser.

Unbeknown to us there had been an occasion where somebody had refuelled a piston with jet fuel or vice versa. To prevent a reoccurrence they had marked the pan with a line that AVTUR or AVTAG bowser could not cross. The local controller was a young WRAF and seeing large thrashing propellers she had assumed we had piston engines which was why we were in the wrong place and the AVTUR bowser driver refused to cross the line. It was quite chilly compared with daun sauf so I had lent my AVM my cold weather flying jacket whilst we sorted the problem out.

Eventually a Sqn. Ldr. intent on telling this low life who flew helicopters where to get off, insisted, in no uncertain terms, that if we wanted fuel we would have to push (5.6 tonnes) our helicopters onto the AVTUR line.

This is when the AVM took my Flt. Lt's jacket off.

The policy seemed to change quite rapidly.

A hangover to this was that for decades later one of the instructions on the Leeming approach plate was that if there were any senior officers on board the ATC were to be informed on first contact