Tornado at 40.

[claron]

Did I miss it, or whilst we celebrate the Hawks 40th anniversary. the Tornado slipped through the net.

1st flight 14th August 1974, and still going.:D

[LOMCEVAK]

Claron,

Spot on although the first airframe to fly, P01, is not still flying. What is also special about the Hawk is that the first airframe to fly is still going after 40 years.

[Rhino power]

The RAF's effort to commemorate the occasion, using ZD788...


http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy325/stevemclaughlan/Tornado%20gallery/photo_zps18m4rvu7.jpg

Also, a better side on view at the following link.

http://forum.tornadosig.com/topic/7229168/1/

-RP

[Courtney Mil]

Oh dear, RP. They put a lot of effort into that, didn't they?

[Rhino power]

Back of a fag packet during a coffee break I think, CM. I know it's a nod towards the prototype's colours but, surely something better could've been designed?

-RP

[MAINJAFAD]

Before you guys knock it, actually come up with a design that meet the tight regulations that cover what schemes British military aircraft can be painted in at a reasonable price. Yes other air forces do better and more complicated designs, but they are prepared to pay somebody to do the artwork and don't have so many rules on what can and can't be done. RP is correct in that the scheme is based on that of the first prototype as far as the regulations allow.

[Willard Whyte]

Pfff. Regulations*.

Just paint it identically to the original prototype. It isn't going to fall out of the sky because of the colour scheme.

*Okay, maybe leave off the Luftwaffe insignia.

[reds & greens]

I'm sorry, but after 40 glorious years of front line use as a theatre workhorse where allowed, this is a tragically pathetic reflection to mark the occasion.

[27mm]

Ah, yes, but something we Brits do rather well......

[Willard Whyte]

Abstract thought has never really been encouraged in the military. Im sure most of us could come up with half a dozen different schemes. Would that I had any ability at using a computer to render them though...

[Typhoon93]

I agree with RG.

This aircraft has saved many, many, many coalition lives since the day it entered operational service, and even to this very day it is still saving lives on the front line on Op Herrick.

Oh well - I guess because it doesn't hover, it doesn't deserve as much recognition. Very sad. A truly underrated aircraft, in my view. I love the Tonka!

[MPN11]

There was a time, in the distant past when 216 flew pretty VIP Comet 4s, that they proposed a new scheme for them ... based loosely on the Rothman's cigarette packet. That didn't happen either, although the draft looked lovely.

Sadly I agree .. the Tornado scheme is limp, wimp and utterly uninspiring. Doodling on the fin is cheap, of course: a full repaint job could cost several minutes of a VSO's salary.

[NutLoose]

MAINJAFAD Before you guys knock it, actually come up with a design that meet the tight regulations that cover what schemes British military aircraft can be painted in at a reasonable price. Yes other air forces do better and more complicated designs, but they are prepared to pay somebody to do the artwork and don't have so many rules on what can and can't be done. RP is correct in that the scheme is based on that of the first prototype as far as the regulations allow.


Actually some of them are done for free by artists, one chap designed the Diana the huntress scheme, the Stb fin she is pointing her arrow down to show their bomber past, and on the other side she is showing as air to air.
He airbrushed it on over several days, see

Scramble Messageboard ? Information (http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?p=403642&sid=2fdf656aa7abe2e38a99c8edd2cbdfbd)

[Flap62]

Have any of the posters on here spent the last 8 years in cryogenic suspension?

We're collapsing to 6 front line squadrons! 6!

And you're suggesting spending lots of time and money for what purpose?

Good effort for a great aircraft. Now move along people and let's look at the real world.

[NutLoose]

You could have put the theatres and squadrons along the spine :)

[mr fish]

just a quick question....is the VG concept dead.?




FISH.

[glad rag]

You could have put the theatres and squadrons along the spine :)

Yep.
I wasn't quite in at the very start [but close behind] of the RAF Tornado's service [the proper bomber version that is] and I can honestly say that I wish that they really just hadn't bothered with that abortion of a paint scheme, however well intentioned.

I mean just look what the kra er Germans do FFS

[Onceapilot]

Tornado, what a workhorse! The ability to plough through bad weather at low level was a step change, coupled with an integrated computerised nav/attack system...what a beauty! Enjoyed every moment flying it! Thanks to everyone involved! :ok:

OAP

[Willard Whyte]

And you're suggesting spending lots of time and money for what purpose?

Good effort for a great aircraft. Now move along people and let's look at the real world.

A: 'lots of time'? Ballocks, it wouldn't take much time to better that effort.

B: 'lots of money'? How much is paint? Just don't get it from BAES. Besides, bound to be some of various colours in stores.

C: Why? because that P.O.S. is an embarrassment.

D. Pathetic and typically unimaginative dullard blinkered effort for a great aircraft.

Don't tell people what to do without having reversed the plexiotomy. Move along? **** off sonny.

[glad rag]

Tornado, what a workhorse! The ability to plough through bad weather at low level was a step change, coupled with an integrated computerised nav/attack system...what a beauty! Enjoyed every moment flying it! Thanks to everyone involved! :ok:

OAP

"Under the weather Under the radar"

[Flap62]

Willard,

Thank you for your beautifully reasoned post.

Even though you honour me with the title "sonny", I will stop myself from responding in kind.

When you have any idea of the pressures that the front line operate under then please feel free to come back with your massively witty and relevant posts. Until then, do remind us how it used to be "back in the day".

[500N]

Flap

Thank you, i needed a good laugh this morning and you provided it :ok:

:D:D:D


Edit
I think you shold have left your original post, it was a superb come back

[Flap62]

I assume that was for my first post before I took a deep breath and edited it!

[MAINJAFAD]

NutLoose

The one I was involved in (Designed using my Software, using my aircraft profile by an very close relative who I taught how to use said software) quite literary knocks the spots off either of those F-16s.

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/2007/441jags/jags.jpg

The difference here is the Italians and Germans (and other people who paint fast jets in fancy schemes) don't have a habit of sending 20 odd military aircraft off to some dust hole at 72 hours notice to fight a war. The aircraft at the front was painted in the scheme because the force was already non operational, 6 Sqn managed to source funding to pay for the paint job and everybody in the chain up to CinC Strike liked it (in fact CinC Strike approved the design the on the last full day of Strike Command existence). The Desert Pink Jaguar happened because AOC 1 Group wished it to happen. The original nose art of the pink Jaguar (which had fought in GW1 and was the only aircraft still in the fleet that had done so) was found to be too offensive, so something a little less offensive was designed and painted by an ex Jaguar maintainer with very good artistic skills on a paid commission by the Sqn (who still have the panel it was painted on). Both of those aircraft flew only 2 sorties and about 3-4 flying hours in those paint schemes (the Pink Jaguar was the only one to be painted in a permanent finish of that colour (all other aircraft that wore that scheme were painted with ARTF paint). The spotty Jag non standard colours were bog standard car paint.

The Italian schemes you have shown, are the same as the Jaguar, out of service, so they could go to town on them and use paint. The Tornado isn't and will be a mix of paint and decals as that aircraft may be called on to do some real operations. In fact most of the overall special paint jobs done on RAF aircraft in the past where on aircraft that had just gone non operational or had 2nd line role (OCU or Training).

Willard Whyte

Repainting an aircraft can have massive effects on aircraft C of G as paint does have mass (that's why most RAF special schemes are limited to less than 25% of the airframe, any more than that and the aircraft has to be weighted and re-ballasted (if required)). Also the normal paint scheme has been trailed extensively for its camouflage effects, plus its solar IR heating reflective qualities. The later can have major effects on aircraft avionics bays if they don't met the spec (the bays get hot and the electronics get cooked, if the air conditioning system can't cool the equipment fast enough. This has happened to at least two fast jets that I know of when the aircraft had a total repaint in something other than a standard paint finish. (The first case was approved and highlighted the problem, the second wasn't, but the unit OC said "Pfff. Regulations" (if he or his SEngO had bothered to read the regs in the first place). The second aircraft was also massively out of limits on C of G when they got to weight it after it had flown a few times from what I've been told by more than one person)).

If you think paint colour is not important as regards solar heating, Cessna beg to differ.

http://www.cessna.com/en/company-info/newsroom-and-events/cessna-offers-heat-reflecting-paint-for-turbo-stationair

It's as good a scheme as has gone on any other type for an RAF in service type celebrating number of years since first flight or entry into service. All of the Jaguars that had type in service years (25 and 30 years) only had a special fin job. The original red spine of the prototype Panavia 200 MRCA (It wasn't named Tornado until 1975/6) had the names of the three manufacturers along it. Can't paint them on as its advertising a commercial business (again against the regs).

We don't know the story of its design, but the Camouflage Working Group and command chain up to CinC Air approved it. As for unit Badges on the frame, anybody wanting to do this aircraft as a model decal sheet or print has to pay the MoD a licence fee for every unit badge that is on the design. The designer may be aware of this thus the reason for the lack of unit badges. Read the MoD IRP web site if you don't believe me.

[99 Change Hands]

The only advice I would give is that emulsion from downtown Cag' is alright but make sure the brush you use hasn't previously been used for red paint because it comes out pink:

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/wislonuk/gr10002_zps487943ac.jpg

[glad rag]

http://www.creativemodels.net/images/Products/RV04660.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

Glad Rag,


Nice - except the poor tiger's head gets split open when the wings are swept forward !

[MAINJAFAD]

Glad Rag

Very Nice, However what I would love to know is how regularly do all of those Luftwaffe 'Specials' actually fly and do what they were designed to do (be it in an operational or operational training role). Do they only come out of the HAS when hordes of spotters descend on the base or its time for the next Tiger Meet / RIAT? The Germans have a history of painting abstract art on their military aircraft dating back to the days of the Red Barron. However the air force that painted their aircraft in a drab boring finish actually beat them in the end in that war (and the same the second time around by the time the fracas was over). The British 'Specials' most definitely do their 'Day' job, as I've seen all of them on my last unit (they had at least 3 (and 2 more that I've seen since I demobed)) taxi or take off past my office window almost daily. At the end of the day I think the way 22 Group, 100 Sqn and the USN have done specials are better, paint the aircraft in a scheme from the past (19 Sqn Hawk as an early Spitfire, Tucano in Western Desert Scheme, 100 Sqn Hawk in (almost) WWII Night Bomber finish, USN aircraft in various finishes pre, during and post WWII).

[The Stimulator]

Certainly the 16 Sqn black GR1 of 1990 did its day job. Lovely understated finish. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of it with me, but I'm sure someone here can help.

[RAFEngO74to09]

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a530/HYWELEVANS/Goose%20Bay%20wrecks/Laarbruch%20pt6/SAUDI/LAARBRUCH%20PART%207/FN21024x663_zps9284e8e6.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll364/slijfie/TornadoZA549.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Panavia_Tornado_GR1,_UK_-_Air_Force_AN2068579.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

http://www.globalaviationresource.com/reports/2011/gulfwar20th2/images/12.jpg

[exhorder]

@MAINJAFAD: Usually, the Luftwaffe aircraft which are to have a special paint job are examples with relatively few flight hours left before some large, periodic inspection or, in some cases, their withdrawal from use. For those few months before their re-painting or withdrawal though, they are used in regular training missions.

For instance, the recently painted "Tiger" Eurofighter will be used as an instructional airframe at Kaufbeuren for the next few years.

[Spugford]

Thread creep anyone?!

Tornado is 40 yrs old… and is currently deployed on more than one op, simultaneously, in differing roles with only 3, soon to be 2, Sqns (plus OCU). Surely there's something more to celebrate than a collection of paint-jobs? As a previous poster suggested, maybe the slightly dodgier ones are partly down to the requirement for the jet to be ready to go to service the latest good idea with typical quiet competency...

Greatly underrated? Possibly.

Greatly understated? Proudly!

[typerated]

Just imagine how long the Bucc could have gone for if it hadn't been replaced by a less capable airframe!

[Kitbag]

Just imagine how long the Bucc could have gone for if it hadn't been replaced by a less capable airframe!

Less capable?

Really?

Have a grown up chat with yourself




Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[The B Word]

Kitbag

It was widely accepted at the time that the "Buccanado" (a Buccaneer with Tornado kit in it that was used as a test bed) was the jet that the sharper end of the RAF really wanted.

B Word

The "Buccanado"...

http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/Pages1_files/Radar_files/xt272a_3x1.jpg
http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/Pages1_files/Radar_files/xt272a_4x1.jpg
http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/Pages1_files/Radar_files/xt272a_5x1.jpg
http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/Pages1_files/Radar_files/xt272a_6x1.jpg

[Haraka]

I think of all the sarcastic comments when it first came in to service :
e.g.

"Just about able to get from the clutch to the IGB with a decent war load."

"Swing-Wing Jaguar"

etc . etc.

As the old adage goes ,

"The first mark of any warplane is usually a disaster , it takes about 3 or 4 to get it right....."

It has served us well.

[The B Word]

"Swing Wing Jaguar" - never heard that one! But as an airframe for mud moving at low and medium level, apart from a quick supersonic dash (but slower than advertised) and more modern avionics kit, then the Bucc was the better airframe.

IMHO, of course!

B Word

[N2erk]

Swing wing Jag is a bit better than "Mother Riley's Cardboard Airplane" that I used to hear it called, when Jaguar was a "bionic budgie".
Both good machines from what I've seen/heard. Have a nice '78 vintage yellow toolbox decal for Panavia Tornado I acquired in my youth.:ok:
In '74/75?, BBC Midweek did a feature on MRCA/Tornado, and the aircraft it was to replace- Vulcan, Bucc, Lightning, Phantom. Anyone know if it has shown up on Youtube??

[99 Change Hands]

Must Refurbish Canberra Again was more common in the early days.

[flipflopman RB199]

Looks like Zee Germans have had a proper crack at it, and what a beauty it looks!! :ok:

Photos: Panavia Tornado IDS Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany---Air/Panavia-Tornado-IDS/2495770/L/)

[E-Spy]

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/5/6/2206650.jpg

:sad: the last ones we painted before they closed the best-located base in Germany :{

The tiger-scheme won the best painted jet award at RIAT 2011 too, sadly flown in by a monster crew!

[NutLoose]

Erm it seems the Germans can manage it


http://www.amv83.fr/Asm/Sig/europe/germany/tornado/Taktisches%20Luftwaffengeschwader%2033/40ansTornadoProtoP01-5.jpg

More

SIG ASM - Germany Tornado Taktisches Luftwaffengeschwader 33 (http://www.amv83.fr/Asm/gallerygermanytornadoJabog33.htm)