The Worst Place to be a Pilot

[Metro man]

There is a program available on the UK Channel 4 website about Susi Air in Indonesia. May need a work around to be able to watch it in Australia.

[mary meagher]

Absolutely BRILLIANT! That has to be the BEST place in the world to be a pilot! If you survive, of course. The most incredible mountains, the most demanding landing areas, the most interesting neighbours, and for sure, the best group of guys. Rather good training system, as well.

Flying a modern jet would have to be very very boring after flying for Susi Air!

[highflyer40]

well the guy who landed at the airfield with the strong downdrafts needed to change his drawers!! so I bet he would like the boredom of a jet!

[highflyer40]

great program, but it not seem very wrong that some of the most difficult flying is being done by all low hour newbies?! even their base captain has only had his license for 4 years, and he's doing the line check for all new hires?!

[sapperkenno]

I think they put the crap people ("stick and rudder "piloting skills-wise) on the caravans, and the people who can handle an airplane and know how to fly get a shot on the Porters. Just a guess, but I know and have flown with one of their porter pilots (when he was a fresh PPL, and was good with his hands/feet then), and I get the impression the porter guys are purists and enjoy the job, whereas the lowland Caravan drivers are mostly 250-hour "the world owes me a living as I'm a CPL and paid Oxford/CTC loads of money, and now I can't get work so I'll do this and moan about it on TV and wreck my chances of anyone else hiring me in future" types!

[Tankertrashnav]

I'm not a pilot (unless you count 60 hours on Cessnas, which I dont) but I was just amazed by the programme. I learned to fly on a grass airfield with fairly short runways, but they looked like Heathrow compared with some of the strips these guys were using. Doing a flyby to check out a new strip which looked like short scrape of mud on a hillside, one of the guys said something like - "They've got a bit more to do yet."

Too right they had!

[dodger_16]

Susi Air, they charge hefty training 'bonds' (fees actually), the licensing in Indonesia is dodgy, it's strictly Muslim and a highly corrupt country. They proudly operate "IFR" but without proper approval, the view being that if the aircraft are IFR approved with their clever G1000 and the pilot is instrument rated then it doesn't matter that the regulations do not actually permit the type of operation chosen. It's all under the opportunist control of one seriously weird and paranoid 'business' woman cashing in on desperate & inexperienced pilots (often with substantial training loans to pay back) under a very corrupt political regime. You'll get malaria, dengue, hepatitis too. So... lots of IFR co-pilot hours that won't count for anything and an incurable medical condition which will eventually write off your licence. Yes yes 'people have gone on to big airlines from there' and other blah blah but that doesn't make it any more acceptable.

[too_much]

I enjoyed the show last night, real flying these guys are doing. Makes me proud to be a pilot

[lilflyboy262...2]

Sapper, you are a :mad:.

The caravans go into runways that you couldn't even imagine existing. New captains start in the lowlands until they reach 500hrs in country. After that, they move into the mountains. Do we fly into the 250m runways, no. But we are going into the 400m ones.

If you think its low houred guys with nil experience at the helm of those things then you are sorely mistaken.
I would like to think that I am not "crap" with stick and rudder, and should a Porter position be offered to me in the future, I'm more than likely to turn it down as I don't want to go down that path. (As do a majority of the pilots here).

@Dodger, I've yet to get any of those diseases. And a majority of the guys here don't get it either.
I know of people that have got Hepatitis from eating McDonalds in "first world" countries.
The country is not "Strictly" muslim, unless you go to Ache. And in fact, most of Papua is Christian with the exception of the imported Indonesians (Mainly from Java) under the transmigration program.

Corrupt. Yes.
IFR approved aircraft. No
Pilots IFR certified. Yes
Single engine IFR permitted for cargo flights only. (so for most of operations they are permitted)
Training loans, I am unaware of them but I don't work for Susi.

I do however agree with your statement about her.

[too_much]

One thing I don't get is why they need co pilots for the 208B....these are single pilot aircraft

[aeromatt]

I believe it is Indonesian regulation that 2 pilots are required if there is 10 POB or more.

[too_much]

Do you always fly IFR or is it a mix? Also do some of the strips have any nav aids or approaches?

[Chronus]

Great viewing, but what amused me most was the thought that without the benediction of our chaps the locals would revert to eating eachother.

[training wheels]

Do you always fly IFR or is it a mix? Also do some of the strips have any nav aids or approaches?

I don't fly for Susi, but I have flown quite a lot of hours in West Papua albeit, in much larger aircraft than a caravan and mostly to much larger strips than the Susi guys/girls would fly in to.

One of the smaller airports we fly to, Nabire, has an NDB that usually works most of the time, but there is no published instrument approach for the aerodrome. That's pretty much the case with many outback airports in Indonesia. You could quite easily do a straight-in RNAV GNSS approach in to runway 16 at Nabire, but the Indonesian authorities have not published such an approach either. Infact I don't think I've even seen an RNAV GNSS approach published for any of the airports in Indonesia. This is quite a pity as it doesn't cost a thing to maintain and would enhance safety by many fold, but .... who knows why they have not considered it?

Biak has an ILS but it's often NOTAMed to be U/S and last I heard, Jayapura/Sentani was getting an ILS commissioned but not sure whether it's been implemented. We flew on an IFR flight plan, but when going in to Nabire, we obviously have to be VMC when descending through the LSALT/MEA and proceed visually to land.

Not sure whether the caravan operators operate on a VFR or IFR flight plan, but they obviously have to be in VMC when operating in to those tiny non-Aid grass strips.

[bankrunner]

I haven't watched the show but I can think of worse places to fly than West Papua for Susi Air -- some of the less reputable charter/bank run outfits of old operating out of BK, MB etc come to mind...

[lilflyboy262...2]

@Too much.

The need for a co-pilot in the C208 is the same reason there is a need for a Co-pilot in a B1900.

Both are single pilot aircraft.

My company routinely flies two of our caravans single pilot as they are only cert'd for 9 pax (Which, I believe is the case for all of Susi's caravans. Which makes me wonder why they seat 12 but I stand to be corrected on that.)
For our other caravans which are cert'd for 12, it must be 2 crew.

[deadcut]

Watched the first episode on youtube last night! Wow! Looks like some amazing flying to be had. Makes the outback strips out here look like LAX. :ok:

A running theme that I've noticed. None of the Brits being able to get jobs back home. "I've sent out over 200 resume's" Lol mate what did you think was going to happen.

[VarigMD11]

Susi Air caravans are certified for 12 pax ops as per the company ops specs. Hence the need for 2 crew (which is actually becoming quite common on caravans around the world).

Operations are VFR only, this doesn't mean that the crew doesn't encounter bad weather. It is Indonesia after all and therefore all crew have Instrument ratings and are current.

I worked there for 2 years, had a great time, made friends forever and some good money. I would go back in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.

[robm]

Any leads to the utube version? ie search wording?

[the_rookie]

The worst place to be a pilot?

[skywagondriver]

Enjoy it guys - just be pleased that GA is featured... the pilots didn't name the series.

Worst Place to be a Pilot | Season 1 Episode 1 | Full Episode - YouTube (http://youtu.be/F4_oUf5qXbE)

[Mail-man]

Lilflyboy2..2

I thought 1900's only required the second pilot due to autopilot req's. (Like metro's) From an Oz perspective the requirement for 2 crew due pax numbers only applies to RPT, not charter.

[RadioSaigon]

...the requirement for 2 crew due pax numbers only applies to RPT, not charter.

Not at all.

Here (Papua) many charterers stipulate 2-pilot crews, just the same as in Oz and usually the same industry sector too. Mining. The trend grows.

[HardCorePawn]

The "training bond" is USD$2500... Not exactly hefty in the grand scheme of getting a CPL/MEIR...

It comes with about 5-10 hours in a sim... And around 3 hours dual in an aircraft... And all the other in-house training

Compare that with a C208B Type Rating from Air2There... Which costs about the same at current exchange rates... And around 1 hour in the aircraft...

The training bond also comes with a job and a salary... Granted, Not a huge salary, (hence those guys who've stacked up massive training loans back home suffer)... But tax is taken care of and you get accommodation and food... And the cost of living here is ridiculously cheap...

Also... The first episode was very focussed on Papua ops... I guess watching guys fly visual approaches into 1500+m sealed strips doesn't quite get the ratings like cannibalism, mountain strips and near misses... :rolleyes:

[mary meagher]

Seems to me that having 2 pilots on board is useful not only in flying the plane but in dealing with passengers who don't behave.

[Mail-man]

Radio saigon. I was more referring to legislation rather than contract stipulations. Ive regularly flown more than 9 pax single pilot.

[27/09]

Certainly different and difficult conditions but also came away after watching that episode with the feeling that some of it was over dramatised by the narrator, which spoilt the presentation somewhat. Many of those strips weren't much different to some hunting/tramping strips in the Kaimanawa's or some in the South Island.

Challenging? Yes certainly.

Dicing with death as often as was inferred by the narrator at times? I'm not so sure.

[RadioSaigon]

Ive regularly flown more than 9 pax single pilot...

As have I -and continue to do so. The point I was making is that many charterers here impose conditions that exceed legislation, which if you can't or won't meet, you won't get the contract.

some of it was over dramatised...

Yup, much. The elevation & temps here make it a little more exciting than what you might experience in the Kaimanawa's or anywhere in the SI (I've done a few years there) and there are not many GA drivers in NZ that get to play on topdressing strips, which would be about the closest you would find in NZ to conditions here.

There's no denying that a good story has been made "better" in the interests of journalistic licence and/or viewer-ratings, however.

[Skydiveandy]

Aeromat is correct

CASR - Part 135.383 Minimum Flight Crew

(a) No air carrier may operate an aircraft in any air transportation service operated under this part, with fewer than two pilots, where the aircraft:

(1) is an aeroplane with a certified seating configuration of 10 or more passenger seats;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Air Transportation Service” - The operation for remuneration, including positioning flights, of any aircraft which is listed on the air carrier’s Air operating certificate.

The Cessna Caravan under the FAA approval is only 9 Passengers but under the EASA approval can take 12 passengers. Many operators here in Indonesia operate under the EASA approval.

As far as the training bonds are concerned.. They are just that, a Training Bond. An amount that the new pilot pays and providing they stay for the agreed period as per their contract they get back their bond after 12 months as PIC.

This was started after a number of new pilots went through the expensive training and disappeared only a few months later. The bond is their to recoup at least a small part of the training cost incurred by the company. If the pilot does the right thing by the company, as they agreed to, then they get it all back.

Don't be fooled trying to compare a Type Rating to the Training Bond. In Australia you are lucky to get a C208B type rating for less than $5000.

Now add the cost of the 5 + day ground school, 3-5 hours of flight time in the aircraft. Government imposed mandatory training, accommodation, meals, work visas and the list goes on and on. The Bond does not come close to covering even 50% of the expenses the company outlays just to get the pilot from starting to line checked.

The channel 4 show is a good representation of how things are in Papua. I know most of the guys that were shown and they are all amazing pilots. Well done guys.

Andy

[pilotchute]

Don't be fooled. As amazing and rewarding the flying in Papua (and Indonesia) seems to be, remember that most things you take for granted don't exist there or in the majority of Indonesia itself.

Health services can be very basic at best. Driving is a dangerous thing as many people die everyday on the roads. There are many stories of people here going to hospital with a minor illness and either end up dying or coming out much worse than they went in.

Susi works on the assumption that the pilots stay with the company on average for two years. One year co jo and one year Captain and then its get out time for most pilots. Poor pay and basic conditions are bearable to most people for a limited time only. Many don't last the first twelve months. It's common for people to "go for some time off" and not come back.

TV is great tool for entertainment but you must remember that there is a lot of window dressing around the what is shown.