PPL/EASA/NPPL?????

[ecosse]

Hi people i am unqualified pilot with about 20h p2 in microlight and also have went solo and have around 4h solo...

the last time i flew was 1year and 6 months ago so my solo hours are gone!! essentially.

I got into microlights really for the cost and ease as its a local school and i want too be able to land everywhere and anywhere/ grass/sand/ a real bush pilot if you like.


For one reason or another(weather) i didn't get to fly in last while and its a shame to waste my time(i don't feel its wasted but i should have continued and got it done and its a shame if i dont complete it)

so my dilemma now is this....

what licence should i go for?

NPPL(M) then add seea rating
NPPL(A)
JAR PPL
LAPL.

I am confused now(easily done )

I want to fly maintain and own my own aircraft, most likely on an LAA Permit, which i believe is annex11 ? but as i gather from the caa website, i won't be able to fly a microlight if i just go straight for an LAPL EASA Liscence?

So should I continue with my Microlight licence and do this and the conversion before 2015?

or just do the 30h course with a EASA LAPL Aproved school?


I will definitely be wanting to buy something like a Piper cub, aeronca champ, luscombe 8 etc, or a EASA Microlight type like a eurostar, 601 jabiru's etc. "group A" as often advertised.

would also be nice to hire something with 4 seats and go for a tour around at some point. a 172 perhaps etc..

any suggestions welcomed, especially interested in an intensive course abroad where i can be guaranteed the weather for say 2 weeks or do a mix of some flying here then go abroad too consolidate the flying and do the licence.

I would take the Family with me somewhere and could do it quicker through the microlight route possibly as i already have dual hours on a c42.

confused dot com :ugh::ugh:

also there was talk of some changes in october are they going to come into play?

Cheers

Kenny

PS The CAA is below for anyone interested


Aircraft are divided into two areas for licensing and airworthiness purposes:

EASA aircraft
non-EASA aircraft
This classification applies to types of aircraft, not individual aircraft. So, for example, if a particular Cessna 172N is an EASA aircraft then all Cessna 172N are EASA aircraft. And if one particular De Havilland Chipmunk T10 is not an EASA aircraft all such Chipmunks are classed as being non-EASA. Non-EASA aircraft are also known as Annex II (two) aircraft.

EASA aircraft
Many aircraft in Europe are classed as EASA aircraft wherever they may have been manufactured or registered. This includes many of the types you'll see around flying schools – like the Cessna range, the Piper PA-28s and PA-38s, Cirrus etc.
In the UK, holders of Part-FCL EASA licences can fly both EASA and UK-registered non-EASA aircraft that are within the ratings included in their licence.

For example: The Cessna 172 is an EASA aircraft. The Tiger Moth is a non-EASA aircraft. Both are single engine piston aircraft. So if you have a Part-FCL licence, like a PPL(A) or LAPL(A) that allows you to fly with a single-engine piston rating you can fly both the Cessna 172 (EASA) and the Tiger Moth (non-EASA). But if you have a national licence, such as the UK NPPL(SSEA), after April 8th 2015 you can only fly the Tiger Moth.

Non-EASA aircraft
With some exceptions, the following types of aircraft are defined as non-EASA aircraft and are ruled by national, not European, regulations:

Microlights
Light gyroplanes
Ex-military aircraft
Foot-launched aircraft
Vintage aircraft
You do not have to have an EASA licence to fly these types of aircraft as you can fly them if you only have a national licence.

[xrayalpha]

Choices:

Light aircraft
"Full" PPL - ie EASA SEP
"Euro" PPL - ie EASA LAPL
"UK" PPL - ie UK NPPL with SSEA rating

Microlight
UK NPPL with Micro rating

So now the questions! (if answer is NO to a question, go to the next one)

Do you want to be/think you might want to be a commercial pilot?

Yes: EASA SEP

Do you want to/think you might want to fly outside the EU

Yes: EASA SEP

Do you want to/think you might want to fly at night, or in cloud?

Yes: EASA SEP

Have you seen what it costs to hire a suitably-equipped aircraft and you have the time and money to keep your skills up to date?

Yes. EASA SEP

And are there local airfields open at night with lights and stuff that you can afford to fly to and from?

Yes. EASA SEP

Do you want to/think you might want to fly a four-seat aircraft?

Yes: EASA LAPL

Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?

Yes: EASA LAPL

Do you want to/think you might want to fly an Annexe 1 aircraft?

Yes: EASA LAPL

Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?

Yes: EASA LAPL

Have you won the lottery and want to own your own aircraft, and that aircraft might be an Annexe 1 aircraft?

Yes. EASA LAPL

Would you like to fly a modern aircraft and not one that looks all tatty and be able to afford lots of flying?

Yes. NPPL SSEA

Do you dislike exams?

Yes. NPPL Micro.

************

Now, as it happens, you can until April next year, do an NPPL (micro) and add an SSEA rating with just one or two more exams and then trade it in for a LAPL.

Misses out on the ridiculous NINE exams in EASA land and the ridiculous questions that are asked (which no-one at our club can answer - especially the one about the time in New Delhi!)

[ecosse]

Ok colin, cheers for that.

see you soon lol!!!

[ecosse]

just need the weather now then....

how long will it take to do my exams? for micro and when do we start?

[muntisk]

Dear All
What license do i need to fly light aircraft? I have EASA ATP with valid SEP rating, but under EASA there is no ultralight license. And recently somebody told me that ultralight licenses is under national regulations. I was sure if you have PPL you can fly ultralight...:ugh:

[ecosse]

You can fly a light aircraft, such as an LAA Type with a permit to fly such as a C42-Eurofox-Eurostar etc.

A Microlight I'm not sure? but they are more expensive to buy and cant carry as much weight.

As you have a Full EASA Licence then I would look at a GRP-A Rather than a microlight.

One like this perhaps http://www.afors.uk/index.php?page=adview&adid=30004&imid=0

Its sold though:ok::ok:

so maybe this http://www.afors.uk/index.php?page=adview&adid=31422&imid=0

or,Light Aircraft, Bolkow Junior 208c - £16,000, For Sale, advert ID=31245 (http://www.afors.uk/index.php?page=adview&adid=31245&imid=0)

Kenny

[ifitaintboeing]

What license do i need to fly light aircraft? I have EASA ATP with valid SEP rating, but under EASA there is no ultralight license. And recently somebody told me that ultralight licenses is under national regulations. I was sure if you have PPL you can fly ultralight...

If you have a valid EASA licence with SEP rating, you may fly as pilot-in-command of a microlight once you have completed differences training with an instructor. ANO Article 62(6):

A Part-FCL licence with single-engine piston aeroplane privileges is not deemed to be rendered valid for a microlight aeroplane unless the holder of the licence has undergone differences training in accordance with Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7, appropriate for a microlight aeroplane class rating.

ifitaint...

[xrayalpha]

Ifitaint,

The differences training is only if you wish to fly the "different" type of microlight.

ie If you have flown a three-axis light aircraft (is there any other type!) then there is no "difference in control systems". But if you wished to fly a weightshift microlight, then there would be "differences" training required

However, due to lower inertia etc - and the need to feed my family! - I would recommend some conversion training.

[ifitaintboeing]

Xrayalpha,

You are incorrect. As the holder of a SEP rating you must complete differences training to be able to fly microlights. ANO Article 62(6).

You then require further differences training if you wish to convert onto another control type. ANO Schedule 7, Part B, Section 2.

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

I think that Xrayalpha's interpretation was the one originally intended but, not for the first time, the CAA have drafted the requirement so badly that Ifitaintboeing's interpretation is equally valid.

I've written to the new GA unit and asked this question, but so far, no response. :(

Unless we can get an 'official' view on this, you can take your choice, and wait for an accident to find out who is right.


MJ:ok:

[ifitaintboeing]

I think that Xrayalpha's interpretation was the one originally intended

If I recall correctly, the requirement for microlight differences training for SEP holders was introduced as a result of an AAIB recommendation following a number of accidents.

The requirement to complete differences training for transferring control types for people who hold the privileges to act as PIC on microlights was also introduced as a result of an accident and resulting AAIB recommendation.

ifitaint...

[xrayalpha]

ANO Article 62(6):

(6) A Part-FCL licence with single-engine piston aeroplane privileges is not deemed to be rendered valid for a microlight aeroplane unless the holder of the licence has undergone differences training in accordance with Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7 , appropriate for a microlight aeroplane class rating.

so........

ANO Schedule 7 Part B Section 2:

If the aeroplane has:
(aa) three axis controls and the holder's previous training and experience has only been in an aeroplane with flexwing/weightshift controls;
(bb) flexwing/weightshift controls and the holder's previous training and experience has only been in an aeroplane with three axis controls; or
(cc) more than one engine,

before exercising the privileges of the rating the holder must complete appropriate differences training.

All came from an earlier thread.

[Mach Jump]

If I recall correctly, the requirement for microlight differences training for SEP holders was introduced as a result of an AAIB recommendation following a number of accidents.

The requirement to complete differences training for transferring control types for people who hold the privileges to act as PIC on microlights was also introduced as a result of an accident and resulting AAIB recommendation.


I think you recall quite correctly that the requirement for Differences Training when transferring between control types was introduced as a result of AAIB recommendations after a number of accidents.

I think that the drafting of this requirement, and it's subsequent re-writing when EASA Part.FCL was introduced, produced the wording we have today which suggests that there may be a requirement for Differences Training when flying any kind of Microlight for the first time.

I would suggest that, if this had been the original intention, it would have been included in the items requiring Differences Training listed in CAP804.


MJ:ok:

[ifitaintboeing]

Which 'differences training' list in CAP 804?

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

Which 'differences training' list in CAP 804?

CAP 804 Section 4, Part H, Subpart 1, Page 7, 4.3 'Guidance on Differences Training'.


MJ:ok:

[ifitaintboeing]

CAP 804, Section 4, Part H refers to the differences required under EASA.

However, the privilege to fly microlights using a SEP rating and the national requirements to do so are provided under national legislation. Therefore you need to look in the NPPL section...

See CAP 804, Section 5, Part A, Subpart 2, page 8:

3.1 4 Exercising the privileges on Microlight aeroplanes on the basis of an SEP(Land) Class Rating...

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

I take your point about the National Requirements.

However the part of Cap 804 you quote states as follows:

3.1 4 Exercising the privileges on Microlight aeroplanes on the basis of an SEP(Land)
Class Rating
The holder of a UK issued licence or any Part-FCL licence with an SEP rating, may,
subject to differences training on the appropriate class with a suitably qualified
instructor, exercise the privileges of their licence on microlight aircraft. However, any
experience gained in microlight aircraft cannot be counted towards the flying experience
necessary to maintain the full SEP or TMG privileges.

The key phrase being:

...may,
subject to differences training on the appropriate class with a suitably qualified
instructor...


The wording here is similar to that found in ANO Article 62(6), and is where the problem lies. :ugh:
This phrase could, as you suggest, imply a requirement for 'Differences Training' before flying any Microlight Aircraft or, as Xrayalpha and I suggest, the need to complete any 'Differences Training' required if changing between control systems, as required at: 3.11.2

3.11.2 Microlight pilots wishing to convert between weightshift and 3-axis microlight control
systems, or to a microlight with more than one engine, shall undertake differences
training given by a flight instructor entitled to instruct on the microlight aeroplane on
which instruction is being given.


MJ:ok:

[Flyer1987]

Hi Guys,

I am also awaiting a reply from the CAA regarding a similar issue.

I currently hold an EASA Licence with SEP and IR(R) ratings. In addition, I have undergone differences training for weightshift microlights earlier this year by a valid instructor and been signed off in my log book for it.

I have now purchased a three axis microlight and so am unclear on where I stand licence-wise now.........

I fully intend on carrying out difference training on it but does this have to be with a valid instructor or just someone with experience on type?


I have been researching the latest CAP 804 and found this:

Section 2 – Aircraft and instructor ratings which may be included in United Kingdom
aeroplane pilot’s Licences and National Private Pilot’s Licences (Aeroplanes)

1 The following ratings may be included in a United Kingdom aeroplane pilot licence or a
National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) granted under Part 7, and, subject to the
provisions of this Order and of the licence, the inclusion of a rating in a licence has the
consequences specified as follows.

Microlight class rating
(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to the conditions of the licence in which it is included,
a microlight class rating entitles the holder to act as pilot in command of any
microlight aeroplane.

(2) (a) If the current certificate of revalidation for the rating is endorsed “single seat
only” the holder is only entitled to act as pilot in command of any single seat
microlight aeroplane.

(b) (i) If the aeroplane has:
(aa) three axis controls and the holder’s previous training and experience
has only been in an aeroplane with flexwing/weightshift controls;

(bb) flexwing/weightshift controls and the holder’s previous training and
experience has only been in an aeroplane with three axis controls;

or

(cc) more than one engine,

before exercising the privileges of the rating the holder must complete
appropriate differences training.


From this, I take it to mean if going from GA to Flexwing Microlights then difference training is required (as previously carried out). However, looking at point (b) (i) (aa) and (bb) my past experience has not only been on weightshift, as the majority of my experience has been on cessna's, piper's, decathlon's, Tutor's, Vigilant's, etc and therefore 'official instructor' difference training is not required. Is this correct given the majority of my experience is on fixed wing aircraft all of which operate under the same principle of flight as the three axis microlight?

Reading all the recent legislation I would agree if I were to have solely trained on flexwing microlights then difference training is required to move to three axis. However, as i'm simply to fly the 3 axis under my EASA licence and microlight difference training (M) was carried out on a flexwing, is it legally necessary to undergo further training with an instructor?

My reasoning behind this is something like a Kitfox can either be group A or Microlight class. Therefore, should I buy one of these, surely I would be well within my licence parameters to fly it under group A? But if under Microlight grouping I would need instruction from an instructor? That cant be right... its the same aircraft just different grouping.

PERSONALLY what I am half expecting as a response from the CAA, unless they intend on rewriting a very costly procedure......

...... Is that, one can use the privileges of an EASA licence to fly microlight aircraft providing 'MICROLIGHT CLASS' differences training has been carried out by a qualified instructor (i.e. on flexwing or 3 axis), in accordance with ANO Article 62(6). Should you then wish to fly a three axis aeroplane (which by their own definition is - Engine-driven fixed-wing aircraft heavier than air which is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings) having carried out Microlight differences training on a flexwing then difference training on the particular type of aircraft you intend on flying is ADVISED but does not necessarily have to be with an instructor.

Would anyone disagree? :confused:

[Mach Jump]

We can only wait for the official response on this one.

My own view, is that Microlights are included in the SEP Class Rating, and that you are only required to carry out 'Differences Training' (and have an Instructor signature in your logbook) if you want to swap between control types.

Any 'Familiarisation Training' you may receive when moving between types with the same control system does not require an Instructor signature. (Unless it has other features requiring 'Differences Training'.)

As you have read, this is not a universal view.


MJ:ok:

[xrayalpha]

No need for an official response.

You can fly a three-axis microlight on a non-NPPL light aircraft licence. No differences training required, no ratings, no sign-offs in logbook. (Although training extremely highly recommended.)

Indeed, we have a microlight instructor here at Strathaven who doesn't have a microlight licence - he has an EASA SEP with a microlight instructors rating attached.

So that must be some sort of official proof!

(there was a thread here on Pprune about eight years ago when he was told by the CAA and the BMAA that he had to get a microlight rating, and thanks to ppruners - to whom I offered up a #100 donation - the CAA had to back down and issue a FI(M) on his then JAR SEP>)

We have also had a Citation pilot (and light aircraft FI) teaching on our microlight C42.

So there are quite a few people with illegal licences flying around who we have taught with instructors who don't have microlight licences!

[xrayalpha]

ps CAP is ADVISORY

ANO is Act of Parliament, and so THE LAW.

[pulse1]

I see that EASA have deferred the full requirement to hold an EASA licence until at least April 2018. That is really good news for NPPL (A) holders like me. It probably means that I can enjoy the full privileges and fly CAA an Permit aircraft for the rest of my flying lifetime. Aren't EASA wonderful?:rolleyes:

[Mach Jump]

CAP is ADVISORY

That may be true, but CAP 804 often quotes Part. FCL, Which is also 'THE LAW', as are a whole raft of European Directives Etc.

So it may not be as simple as the 'ANO' (CAP 393) says. :(


MJ:ok:

[Level Attitude]

So it may not be as simple as the 'ANO' (CAP 393) saysand, as Whopity pointed out in another Thread, CAP393 should "not to be treated as authoritative" instead us pilots need to refer to the 'Queen’s Printer’s Edition' of the ANO.

[xrayalpha]

and since we are talking microlights....

That is Annexe 2 and therefore the subject of national (ie UK CAA) regulation, rather than EU.

So back to the ANO.

[Mach Jump]

So back to the ANO.

And so we return to two different interpretations of the following:

A Part-FCL licence with single-engine piston aeroplane privileges is not deemed to be rendered valid for a microlight aeroplane unless the holder of the licence has undergone differences training in accordance with Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7, appropriate for a microlight aeroplane class rating.

...from the ANO. :ugh:


MJ:ok:

[Mach Jump]

So there are quite a few people with illegal licences flying around...

I would venture to suggest that the present Licensing regime is in such an appalling shambles, that, at any one time, more than half the pilots in the UK are flying illegally in some way. :(


MJ:ok:

[Aerials]

Can anyone tell me just how we got into this mess and why is licensing just so damn complicated?

[Mach Jump]

Aerials:

If I started now, I doubt I would live long enough to answer that question.

Someone once said that the Soviet Union, contrary to popular belief, collapsed, not due to western pressure, but due to the weight of it's own bureaucracy.

I think that the EU will eventually do the same. :ugh:



MJ:ok:

Ps. Re-read this post this morning and thought it was a bit depressing. :sad:

Life is a bit like navigation. It's no good wishing you were somewhere else, you have to recognise where you are and do your best to deal with it.

Our Licensing system is a shambles at the moment, but we each have to do our best to be aware of our responsibilities and hope that things get better. ;)

MJ:ok:

[xrayalpha]

MJ

No interpretation necessary:

"in accordance with Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7"

is pretty explicit.

If you want to fly a three-axis microlight, no differences training required.

BUT as always, HIGHLY recommended for your own personal safety.

ps. And as an instructor and microlight examiner, no requirement to "sign off"or anything like that.

Now, in the case of a three-axis microlight pilot with an NPPL M who wants to fly weightshift, then the differences training IS required and consists of such training as required to meet test standard (no need for an actual test) followed by an endorsement in the logbook.

(Quite how an instructor, who is not actually an examiner, is meant to know precisely what est standard actually is - because if they did, no candidates would fail! - is another matter.)

I would always suggest, for safety that even a light aircraft pilot who aims to fly a three-axis microlight should do a few hours with an instructor until at tes standard, and if so than a quick signature is not a lot extra.

But it is not LAW.

[cockney steve]

As a 3-axis Microlight, and a Light Group "a" can be almost identical, just how much training is nrrded for conversion FROM "A" to "M" ?

Half an hour to demonstrate to the "qualified person" that you not only know about the smaller mass,wing-loading, inertia and lower stall and max.speeds, but are able to show that you can apply this knowledge to handling the machine safely.

Everyone's busy arguing semantics of CAP and ANO and EASA,,,,,but less than £100 will probably see you with a (totally unnecessary) logbook endorsement and watertight qualification to fly Grp. M 3-axis.

I think it's pretty self-evident why the shift inthe other direction (from "M" to "A") has a greater training requirement.


All this bollocks is the reason I have not pursued the idea of flying.

A few hundred for a dinghy,life-jacket and insurance and membershipof the local sailing-club....bags of fun,racing if you want it very few restrictions.
True freedom!
Bang-for -buck is incomparable. (yes, you can buy a cruiser and gain the qualifications needed to "go foreign", for under £5k)

EASA and CAA can continue to build their empires till they implode, but I won't supply any bricks!

[Mach Jump]

Xrayalpha:

I'm on your side here! I agree with your interpretation! :)

But I can undersatnd why Ifitaint, and others may think differently.

...is not deemed to be rendered valid for a microlight aeroplane unless the holder of the licence has undergone differences training...

can easily be read to mean that you MUST do the 'Differences Training' in Section 2 of Part B of Schedule 7, appropriate to the type of control, regardless of the type of aircraft you have been flying.


MJ:ok:

[xrayalpha]

Differences training, as specified in ANO Schedule 7 Part B Section 2 must be completed.

I agree. That is the law.

So what is that differences training? Well, it depends on what you have flown.

Here is ANOs7B2, my comments in between *s

If the aeroplane *that you - as a light aircraft pilot - want to fly* has:

(aa) three axis controls and the holder's previous training and experience has only been in an aeroplane with flexwing/weightshift controls *ie NOT a light aircraft since I don't know of any flexwing/weighshift light aircraft, but let's make a rule in case there are future development!*;
(bb) flexwing/weightshift controls *ie a "traditional"microlight* and the holder's previous training and experience has only been in an aeroplane with three axis controls *ie all light aircraft and, maybe, a Fairey Rotordyne or some such obscure thingy*; or
(cc) more than one engine, *but the only microlight with more than one engine is the Lazair, which is a single seater, so what is the training?!*

before exercising the privileges of the rating the holder must complete appropriate differences training.


So, we know that aa and cc don't apply, since there are no weightshift light aircraft and no two-seat twins you can go dual on. (Or if it is a twin, you need an hour in the classroom and then off you go in your Lazair, or possibly Eagle.)

That leaves bb.

This only applies if you want to fly "flexwing/weighshift"

So, if you want to fly three-axis microlights, it doesn't apply. And neither does aa or cc.

Therefore, no differences required by law for light aircraft to 3-axis microlight under the ANO.

Pretty cut-and-dried.

The big issue is with aircraft like the Eagle, which is neither (or both) weighshift and traditional! I suppose since it has partial weightshift controls it is covered by bb? But then there are no two-seat Eagles!

[Mach Jump]

Ok. You are preaching to the converted here.

That was the original intention of the ANO, but you are re-writing the wording to suit our interpretation.

The problem is, it doesn't say '...appropriate Differences training...' It just says '...Differences Training...'

If you can't see that that leaves enough 'wriggle room' in the original wording to allow a different interpretation, then we will have to agree to differ on that.


MJ:ok:

[Flyer1987]

Well this is what I take it to mean too .....

As you say it would be silly not to undergo such training...which I fully intend on doing with someone with lots of experience, even an ex instructor but who is not valid at the moment.

Its all well and good continuing but of course any accidents would result in a null and void pay out I imagine if not legal. Therefore, I guess it's a waiting game now with the CAA. I shall post reply on here when they FINALLY respond.

I'm glad to see its not just me who finds all this rather hazy and ill thought out.

:O

[ifitaintboeing]

For example, EASA FCL does not itself provide for a pilot with a LAPL(A) with SEP privileges (or a PPL(A) with SEP rating) to fly a microlight aircraft, but neither does it object to national authorities extending the use of that licence on a national basis to non-EASA aircraft (such as a microlight) through national legislation. The UK has legislated to allow pilots qualified for SEP(land) aircraft to fly G registered microlight aircraft in the UK, providing the pilot undergoes differences training for microlight aircraft, and has this training signed-off in their personal log book by a suitably qualified instructor. In this context, Differences Training is used to permit flight of a category of aircraft rather than simply a feature within an aircraft.

Differences training | Private Pilots | Personal Licences and Training (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2694&pagetype=90&pageid=15206)

This issue is actually clarified on the CAA website.

ifitaint...

[Flyer1987]

Ok Guys I've now received an official response from the CAA:


There is legally no formal requirement for the differences training to convert on to the Kolb Twinstar Mk III to be conducted by a qualified instructor because you have already flown aeroplanes with three axis controls.

However, looking at our records I do note that your experience of aeroplanes with three axis controls appears to be in types like the Cessna 152. While the Kolb Twinstar is also a three axis control machine, its configuration is rather different to types like the C152, not least that it has a pusher engine and tailwheel. You might wish to reflect on whether being checked out in the type by a qualified instructor with experience of the type would actually be worthwhile.


Of course I can't say whether this would stand if going straight from GA to 3 axis as to fly a microlight on a SEP rating still requires 'Microlight' differences traing under the regulations. BUT having done this training on a flex and having previous experience on 3 axis it would seem legal to continue my training on the Kolb without the need for an official instructor.

Hope this helps those in a similar position in the future :)

[Level Attitude]

Differences Training is used to permit flight of a category of aircraft rather than simply a feature within an aircraftifitaint,
Nice Post. Fully answers the question I believe.

[Capt Kremmen]

Cockney Steve

Well said ! My feelings entirely. Two years ago was my fiftieth year in aviation. Do I understand how the mysterious art of licensing works ? No, I do not.

The incursions of EASA have made a 'black art' blacker. Why the hell the business of recreational flying licences couldn't have been left to the tender caress of National Governments with commercial licensing being administered by the EASA Empire Builders is incompatible with any understanding of the meaning of commonsense.

My sailboat beckons !

[Mach Jump]

Flyer1987:

Thanks for posting that.:)


MJ:ok:

[Mach Jump]

I am still waiting for an answer from FCL, but here, albeit indirectly from a former colleague, is the CAA response to a similar question.

The holder of either a Part-FCL PPL(A) or JAR-FCL PPL(A) or UK national PPL(A) with a valid SEP or TMG Class Ratings and appropriate validating Medical Certificate or Part-FCL LAPL(A) within the recency period for the endorsements with appropriate validating Medical Certificate or NPPL(A) with a valid SSEA or SLMG Class Rating and valid Declaration of Health who wishes to fly a microlight aircraft is required to seek appropriate differences training with a qualified Instructor before undertaking a flight as commander in a microlight aircraft irrespective of the control system in the aircraft. The training should be entered into the pilots logbook as pilot under training



Ifitaintboeing, You were correct in your interpretation.


MJ:ok:

[creweite]

I moved from the UK to the USA over forty years ago, and I look at these postings and wonder how CAA and EASA could have created such a monstrous mess of something as simple as a pilot certificate!

[ifitaintboeing]

Thanks, MJ. However, what you've been told there isn't 100% correct. This bit is correct:

The holder of either a Part-FCL PPL(A) or JAR-FCL PPL(A) or UK national PPL(A) with a valid SEP or TMG Class Ratings and appropriate validating Medical Certificate or Part-FCL LAPL(A) within the recency period for the endorsements with appropriate validating Medical Certificate ... who wishes to fly a microlight aircraft is required to seek appropriate differences training with a qualified Instructor before undertaking a flight as commander in a microlight aircraft irrespective of the control system in the aircraft. The training should be entered into the pilots logbook as pilot under training

This bit isn't:

or NPPL(A) with a valid SSEA or SLMG Class Rating and valid Declaration of Health who wishes to fly a microlight aircraft is required to seek appropriate differences training

A NPPL holder with a SSEA class rating or SLMG class rating would have to obtain a Microlight class rating via the cross-crediting documented in CAP 804 Section 5, Part A or on the NPPL website - differences training for NPPL SSEA/SLMG holders to fly microlights is not an available option.

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

A NPPL holder with a SSEA class rating or SLMG class rating would have to obtain a Microlight class rating via the cross-crediting documented in CAP 804 Section 5, Part A or on the NPPL website - differences training for NPPL SSEA/SLMG holders to fly microlights is not an available option.


Yes. I agree.


MJ:ok: