View Full Version : ANNEX II Piper Cub with EASA SEP license?
Quick question:
Can I fly a G- registered ANNEX II PA-18 (Super Cub) which is operated with a NARC (NOT Permit to fly) with my EASA (issued in Belgium) Single Engine Piston (SEP) license?
Above The Clouds
2nd Aug 2014, 10:15
Quick answer; yes.
Above the clouds; that is what I believe as well, but can't document it...
Do you have any reference on the CAA website?
Especially curious as I would fly a G- registered Annex 2, with an EASA license issued in Belgium.
Level Attitude
2nd Aug 2014, 11:48
Especially curious as I would fly a G- registered Annex 2, with an EASA license issued in Belgium.CAP393 - The ANO
Deeming a non-United Kingdom flight crew licence and any Part-FCL licence valid for non-EASA aircraft and deeming a non-United Kingdom radiotelephony licence valid for any aircraft
62 (1) Subject to paragraph (2), this article applies to any licence which authorises the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft and is:
(a) granted under the law of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a Part-FCL licence;
(b) granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory; or
(c) a Part-FCL licence.Licensing should be OK - but I don't know about the airworthiness (NARC) side.
Level Attitude, thanks for the quick response... I want to believe what you quote, but some people at the Belgian CAA seem to be fighting about the first paragraph:
"Deeming a non-United Kingdom flight crew licence and any Part-FCL licence valid for non-EASA aircraft and deeming a non-United Kingdom radiotelephony licence valid for any aircraft"
The argument is "any Part FCL license valid for non-EASA aircraft"; They pretend their FCL license is NOT valid for non-EASA aircraft...
Wish, I could win this battle, so more help is more than appreciated. Especially people that have it in writing that they can fly Annex 2 aircraft with a EASA license and without the National license...
Thanks for all the help
Mach Jump
3rd Aug 2014, 00:45
The problem of how to attach the privilege to fly their non-EASA (Annex 2) aircraft by the holders of the new Part FCL Licences was left to the individual National Authorities to solve.
The UK CAA had previously allowed foreign licences to be used to fly UK registered aircraft, anywhere in the world, and decided that the easiest way to solve the problem of Annex 2 aircraft was to simply add 'any Part FCL Licence' to that provision, and apply it to their Annex 2 aircraft.
This means that the holder of any Part FCL Licence, regardless of where it was issued, can fly UK registered Annex 2 aircraft anywhere they like. The Part FCL Licence does not have to be valid for non-EASA aircraft registered in the country of issue.
With due respect to the Belgian Authority, who the UK allows to fly UK Annex 2 aircraft is nothing to do with them.
UK registered aircraft on a non-EASA Permit to Fly will require the permission of the National Authority of the country over which they are flying to fly outside the UK, but that is not a Licensing issue.
MJ:ok:
Thanks MJ. Makes sense.
Do you guys in the Uk have a note on the UK FCL specifically allowing to fly annex II?
Sorry for all these questions but want to be able to defend myself if needed with my CAA.
My UK EASA licence in part IX - Validity states:-
Non-EASA aircraft. In accordance with and subject to the provisions of the UK air navigation order this licence is valid for aircraft registered in the United Kingdom for which the flight crew member is not required to hold a Part-FCL licence.
So if the aircraft was OO- registered piper Cub, I guess I'm not licensed to fly it, but OK if it was G- ...
A and C
3rd Aug 2014, 08:58
All this thread demonstrates is that the EASA pilot licensing system is unfit for purpose if it takes this much effort to know if a pilot is qualified to fly such a simple type.
EASA = more cost & less safety.
My BELGIAN EASA license does NOT say this. Does this mean I can NOT fly the G- registered Annex II Cub...?
Jan Olieslagers
3rd Aug 2014, 09:13
Try to get in touch with other Belgian pilots in the same situation. ISTR there's a couple of G-reg Chipmunks around, for example. Two weeks to go to Schaffen!
bookworm
3rd Aug 2014, 10:05
Your rights to perform (private) international air navigation under the Chicago Convention 1944 rely on two features of the licence.
(1) that the licence is compliant with Annex 1 of the Chicago Convention 1944, which it is, because it's a Part-FCL PPL
(2) that the state of registration of the aircraft issued or renders valid the licence, which it does under Art 62.
The Belgian CAA is at liberty to set out its requirements for flying an OO-reg PA-18. For a G-reg PA-18, it must accept the UK's validation.
Above The Clouds
3rd Aug 2014, 22:03
EK380
Above the clouds; that is what I believe as well, but can't document it...
Do you have any reference on the CAA website?
Especially curious as I would fly a G- registered Annex 2, with an EASA license issued in Belgium.
It is exactly how I operate now with the same type, G-REG Cub Annex II using an EASA licence based and flying in the UK. Given your question all you require from the Belgium CAA is permission to overfly from the state, they cannot refuse under EASA it happens all over Europe.
Above the clouds, is your license UK issued or another EASA country? Because mine is not....
Thanks for further
Mach Jump
3rd Aug 2014, 22:17
...is your license UK issued or another EASA country? Because mine is not....
Thanks for further
It Doesn't matter where your EASA Licence is issued. The UK CAA has deemed all EASA Part FCL Licences valid for use in Uk registered non-EASA aircraft anywhere. That's all that matters!
You don't even need the Belgians to give permission to fly over Belgium, as your aircraft has a UK Certificate of Airworthiness.
MJ:ok: