NATO poorly prepared....

[BEagle]

From the BBC:

NATO is poorly prepared for an attack on a member state from Russia, an influential group of MPs has warned.

The report said that while Nato had not seen Russia as a territorial threat for 20 years, recent events meant it was "forced to do so".

"Events in Ukraine this year, following on from the cyber attack on Estonia in 2007 and the invasion of Georgia by Russia in 2008, are a 'wake-up call' for Nato", it read.

"They have revealed alarming deficiencies in the state of Nato preparedness, which will be tough to fix."

The committee also called on the government to show leadership when it hosts a Nato summit in Wales in September.

The report added: "The UK government should take the lead in ensuring that the Nato summit addresses these threats in the most concrete and systematic fashion."

Nato spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said: "As early as March, the Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called Russia's military actions in and around Ukraine a wake-up call for the alliance and for the wider international community.

"He has also made clear that Nato must adapt to a changed security environment and that the Wales Summit in September will be an important milestone in that process.

More at: BBC News - Nato 'unprepared' for Russia threat, say MPs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28577904)

It's a good job that the strength of the UK's Armed Forces is the same as it was at the end of the Cold War......:mad:

How many 'capability holidays' does the UK have nowadays?

Shades of 1938....??

[Sandy Parts]

Good to see that cttee has appointed a Chair with on-the-ground experience from the likely trouble-spots of the world (Rory Stewart). I'd recommend his book about his 'stroll' across Afghanistan ("The Places In Between").:ok:

[Canadian Break]

Guys, if you could only see it from the inside and the number of niche capabilities that are currently flavour of the year/decade. :{

[Kerosene Kraut]

Is this "P for P" concept still on? Maybe we better think about that again? Heard they are at least not permitted into the Brussels mess halls for lunch anymore.

[Shack37]

Apart from a very clear OP we appear to have posts from "jargon addicts". Feel really sorry for the poor people who can´t use the Brussels mess hall anymore. Vlad must have real problems sleeping at night.

[Sandy Parts]

:confused:eh? Sorry Shack old bean, which phrases in my post are you having problems with? I will try to elucidate :)

[Shack37]

eh? Sorry Shack old bean, which phrases in my post are you having problems with? I will try to elucidate


If anything, yours was probaly the only decipherable reply. Is "old bean" really still used in normal conversation?

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Is "old bean" really still used in normal conversation?
At my Golf Club ....yes....and we're Scots!

[cynicalint]

“I’m afraid for a whole generation its perfectly understandable a whole generation of officers were so keen to refocus away from the Cold War and to focus on Afghanistan and Iraq that they went too far in that direction and I think we now need to recalibrate it. "

Rory Stewart Daily Telegraph 31 July 2104
Russian threat: Britain has taken its 'eye off the ball' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11002268/Russian-threat-Britain-has-taken-its-eye-off-the-ball.html)


I'm sure that the Rt Hon Rory Stewart MP is not trying to palm the blame for the need to 'recalibrate' on the military and away from the politicians actions, but his comment does seem to read that way! The only way to maintain any military capability or funding of late was to connect it to the 'Main Thrust' in Iraq and Afghanistan, dictated by politiocos. I sincerely hope that I have misread the quote.....

[TBM-Legend]

No-one reads history books in Western Europe and UK I guess...

Shades of the 1930's..

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Last time I checked, at least 20% of the UK Cabinet (this one and the last Government) had read History, and about another 20% read Politics...


(Cameron, Hague, Osborne, Hammond, Fallon, Grayling,...........that's 6 of the first eight listed)

..though not the useful bits, it seems.

[Al R]

I was surprised last night, to see Philip Hammond very clumsily rubbishing a major general (retiring) who seemed to be making a rather obvious and valid point. We do have a contradiction between how we respond to "armed" versus "unarmed" attacks and at the moment our pants are down. Russia fuses regular and irregular forces with local militia, it cyber attacks and it passively encourages ambiguous warfare. We have a couple of hoofing great carriers (maybe) but not much else with which to patrol the Baltic, an expensive but capable jet inbound sometime soon and troops used to fighting a tightly defined war.

If we need to see how the wheel is turning in Russia, look not much further than this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28583669

For our part, we've lost the skills and mindset of how to jump on a boat and reinforce Europe. I read a thread here the other day about deploying to Poland on exercise, and that it was a knee jerk reaction. But where and what are the trip wires (political as well as military?) if we can't even see what's causing the flare to go 'pop' or worse still, if the flare isn't even visible? We have to get back into that way of thinking - we can't place a main base there because we have no money but more importantly, it'll restrain our thinking too much and the threat is fast and loose. And we need to relearn how to respond fast and loose. Maybe the second QE class carrier IS the (mobile) main defence, funded by NATO.

Edit: Bedpack for Shirref! Hammond hissy fit, threatens to march the general to the guardroom. Crazy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28593326

[Not_a_boffin]

One wonders if Hammond's reaction was conditioned by the drip, drip, drip of capbadge protection, FF2020, Army Reserve soundbites over the last year or so.

One might also argue it's less of a question of numbers than of political will. Between us and the Ukraine / Baltics there are at least two major land powers, the Poles and the Boxheads. Each of which maintains a standing army smaller than Army 2020 (60-odd thousand each). Might be worth asking Frau Merkel whether that's a sustainable position.

We may not have exercised return of forces to the continent in a long time, but we do at least exercise long range deployment - albeit primarily 3 Cdo and or 16AA. Whether the logs tail to sustain that for prolonged ops is there is another question.




an expensive but capable jet inbound sometime soon

One hopes you're not referring to Typhoon?

[barnstormer1968]

Is this report correct though?

I've watched for a long whole that our troop numbers (fighting troops) have shrunk, our navy numbers have shrunk, we have no useable carriers so can't deploy a sea fleet, have scrapped our MPA fleet so our subs have all been monitored and are now a bit exposed and easily targeted, our bases in Germany have closed, our armour fleets have been left to rot, our uniforms have become optimised for desert conditions, our supply chains have become focused on static based control and need large infrastructure and specific locations to supply, our stocks of supplies are not able to get to theatre rapidly (trucks in the UK or afghan can't deliver in mainland Europe), we have very few mud moving aircraft and don't seem able to sustain a large scale deployment of them.

With all the above in mind that has been VERY obviously done and with much concern from just about everyone in uniform for at least a decade are we really sure that we are un prepared..............on the other hand, if anyone wants to pay me lots of cash to come up with reports that state the bleeding obvious I'm up for it :)

[oldmansquipper]

NATO unprepared...Strikes me as a classic "No sh*t, Sherlock?" moment :ooh:

[NutLoose]

I often wonder how it now compares to the RAF of the 70's and 80's, then it was all lashing tape, plastic sheeting and broom handles holding the RAF's NATO facilities together....

I should imagine today with the cuts they have lost the capability to Bodge tape the world together, I bet the broom handles are also in short supply.