UK 'battle group' to take part in exercises in Poland

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Our new Defence Secretary should perhaps read the history of Able Archer 83 before rubbing-up the soviets 'the wrong way' in making such poignant military gestures/forays into Europe when tensions are running at such an all time high.

IMHO we no longer have Government 'Statesmen' who are able to differentiate between diplomacy and military posturing. Blair took us into the Gulf War... let's hope that the coalition aren't going to take us into WW3!

President Reagan, perceived buffoon of the century, actually averted the escalation of conflict with the Soviets... think on!

TCF

[Finningley Boy]

British tanks join Poland exercises to reassure allies against Putin - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10995964/British-tanks-join-Poland-exercises-to-reassure-allies-against-Putin.html)

Here's a link, I think we've got Putin on the run this time! Good ol' Fallon.:ok:

FB:)

[Stendec5]

Don't think this will cause President Putin any sleepless nights. "20 Challenger tanks?" They'll be down to 16/17 by the time they get there due to defence cuts.
President Putin won't go along the so-called "New World Order" so somehow someway he's got to be got rid of. Only I think you'll find he's a deal smarter than that worthless dross in Westminster and Brussels.
He also has lots of weapons...nuclear weapons.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

To paraphrase Yoda:

"Do, or do not. There is no 'solidarity exercise' "

I fail to see how this will reassure our Allies. UK/USA has a strong recent history of backing out when push comes to shove, having done all the right things beforehand. I presume this will simply confirm to our allies in Eastern Europe that we will do the same again.


In the meantime, what a fine way to waste the Defence budget.

[500N]

He also has lots of weapons...nuclear weapons.

Which even Putin isn't stupid enough to put on the table,
or even suggest it for that matter.

If he did, it would be a game changer.

[Haraka]

I fear we may be looking at more inexperienced political posturing against a shrewd Cold War honed opponent.

[baffman]

In the meantime, what a fine way to waste the Defence budget.

The British Army has been deploying to Poland for excellent exercise facilities since the 1990s.

[smujsmith]

What a shame that Fallon has gone straight in to "willy waving" mode, before realising how insignificant this exercise will be to the Russians. He and his government have spent 5 years converting our forces to a shadow of their former selves, and with no wish to disrespect current servicemen, the pollies are merely blowharding the significance of this. The worry of course has to be that the likes of Camoron and Co do not understand how much tweaking the Russians will take. I hope the lads have a great exercise, with no ramifications, and come back safely.

Smudge

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The British Army has been deploying to Poland for excellent exercise facilities since the 1990s.

That's my point. Go on planned exercises with training meaning, not something cobbled together at short notice for pointless political posturing.

[Melchett01]

What a shame that Fallon has gone straight in to "willy waving" mode, before realising how insignificant this exercise will be to the Russians

My thoughts exactly.

I remember in Iraq and Afghanistan seeing some of our smaller allies, countries not people, that were contributing to the coalition and we arrogantly used to chuckle and wonder what one or 2 staff officers in an HQ would bring to the party. Unfortunately that arrogance has now come back to haunt what is rapidly becoming a hollow force. How many detachments and operations around the place have we sent ones and 2s (actual and metaphorical) to make a political point and enable the politicians to stand up in front of Parliament or in front of the press and say we are supporting our 'valued' allies and friends?

Unfortunately, I think the UK will get more out of this that will any of our Baltic friends. A single BG that has probably more understanding and experience of COIN ops would frankly be bugger all use if the Russians decided to step things up. What they will gain is valuable experience of operations other than COIN. But I seriously doubt they will be able to do much more than wave a willy in the direction of Putin's generals.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

..and, to complete the analogy without wishing to lower the tone too much; if you are going to go willy-waving, it helps to have more than 2" ;)

[Stendec5]

Even with Viagra...classic.

[TBM-Legend]

I love the "modern" English prose...

we will sure up instead of shore up:rolleyes:

[Thelma Viaduct]

There's an 'exercise' in Latvia coming up too, folly, Mr Putin won't blink.

[NutLoose]

Working on this

Tank Strength by Country (http://www.globalfirepower.com/armor-tanks-total.asp)

We only have to maintain a 39 to 1 kill ratio to come out on top

The main problem will be guarding all the prisoners

Russia Military Strength (http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=russia)

:E

[Deskex76]

"Even with Viagra..." Would that count as a UOR?

[Basil]

I despair of our handling of Russia.
1. All they wanted (One hopes) was access to a Black Sea port.
Russian and Ukraine did not seem to handle that well.
2. Putin is a very powerful man. He probably has the skinny on everyone of import in Russia.
3. Putin either is, or considers it politic to act as, an extreme prima donna macho man. Our politicians seem unable to understand how to handle such a person.
4. If things start to look bad, one hopes that Putin will be removed from power but no-one removed Hitler in the thirties.

It's a worry!

[500N]

an extreme prima donna macho man. Our politicians seem unable to understand how to handle such a person.

Especially when you have an ego and image man in the White House,
with very bad advisers to boot.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

2. Putin is a very powerful man. He probably has the skinny on everyone of import in Russia.
He's an ex-Lt Col in the KGB, and the former Head of its main successor, the FSB. I should think he knows everything from the colour of their socks to the size of their...

[Norma Stitz]

I think the criticism focus for this thread should rather be - as is normally the case - the language used by the media, as it is them that usually string phrases like 'reassurance of fellow NATO members' together and insert them into boring MOD press releases about a tiny group of tanks going on their holidays.

Remember it's the media that in the recent past have given us such top notch headlines as 'RAF fighters chase Russian bombers away' followed by reporting of such complete piffle.

One wonders how nearer an ABLE ARCHER-esque period of tension we'd be if it was the carcass of a NATO transport (for which read US military) strewn across the Ukrainian countryside, with a comparatively small loss of life versus the horror of two weeks ago.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

What do you expect with a PM whose trade is PR? - the reality doesn't matter; only what the media are reporting does.

[Stendec5]

Because of dross like Cameron and Co' we no longer have a maritime patrol aircraft, that entire capability has been removed. Yet Russia remains a significant naval power.
Indeed, the bulk of the military/servo-military capability that existed under Maggie has been dismantled. It is from that standpoint that these idiots would presume to "threaten" President Putin's Russia. However pathetically.
Playing with fire.

[rh200]

Indeed, the bulk of the military/servo-military capability that existed under Maggie has been dismantled. It is from that standpoint that these idiots would presume to "threaten" President Putin's Russia.

I think its a new doctrine that Obama keeps mentioning, something about not escalating the situation. I think its about showing the nice ones who we have thought of as potential threats that we aren't and we can all live together in a peaceful place.

Standard warm an fuzzy feeling type of stuff. We will pay for it.

[Wensleydale]

We could always guarantee Poland's sovereignty - that will stop him in his tracks!

[Wensleydale]

S5, such bile! Perhaps if you looked at cause and effect then you must agree that it was the £36Bn black hole in the defence budget caused by the "dross" of the previous administration that has led much of our current woes.

[Melchett01]

We could always guarantee Poland's sovereignty - that will stop him in his tracks!

Now you've done it Wensleydale. Now I've got visions of Fallon holding a press conference, brandishing a piece of paper with talk of having secured peace in our time.

Or something along those lines anyway - I can't think why, but that phrase seems very familiar.

[NutLoose]

I see Putin is breaching the Nuclear arms agreement by designing longer range nuclear cruise missiles than are allowed....

BBC News - Russia 'violated 1987 nuclear missile treaty', says US (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28538387)

[Stendec5]

Wens'.

The previous administration was over four years ago. Since then Cameron has butchered our armed forces claiming lack of money as the main reason. Yet this snake-oil wretch has "ring fenced" Foreign Aid hand-outs to the tune of £12,000,000,000 per annum, over 4 years that's an eye watering £48,000,000,000 of British taxpayers money.
If you add to that the equally crippling billions merrily handed over to the so-called "EU" per annum (I confess I don't know the exact amount but I believe it to be in excess of £10,000,000,000. Google it for yourself)
Add both these amounts together over this 4-year period and you arrive at a fantasian figure of +/- £80,000,000,000.
Clearly the previous administration couldn't have left THAT much of a financial black hole as the above figures would testify.
The present political dross simply do not value the very best that our country has and have treated them disgracefully whilst leaving Britain increasingly exposed in an unstable world.

Hence my "bile." I apologize NOT.