737-800 steep turns

[angel83]

Hello all,

about to start my simulators sessions for my type rating..just wondering if you would have any tips for steep turns in the 737-8

250kts / trimmed/ aroud 78%N1 ?

then …6 7 degrees during turn ? add 80 81% ?

any advises appreciated thank you

[nig&nog]

We just did some in the sim the other day and the attitude was more 4-5 degrees nose up and around 65-73% N1. That may have been at very light weights though can't remember. Good luck and enjoy

[7Q Off]

You will start the excercise at 250 kts and level al FL100. Watch the N1 required to mantain the aircraft leveled. During the steep turn just adjust the pitch to 4,5 degres aprox, just touching the 5 deg line and 3 percent more of the N1 needed to mantaining the aircraft level at 250 knots when you start the excercise. To mantain the aircraft level when you change course just mantain the aircraft pitch between 2,5 and 5 and reduce 2 or 3 percent your N1. When you are turning to the other side again 4,5 and 3 percent more N1 than leveled. That should work fine.

Trim as needed to rest your arm.

[BARKINGMAD]

Throw it straight to 45 degrees AOB, squeeze on 2-3% more than you had S&L and then adjust.

Be ready for the "BANK ANGLE!" nagging from the spook in the wardrobe, but it should only shout once as you shoot through the limit.

Anticipate the rollout by the same compass degrees as aob and it should all line up as you reset the N1s.

When overloaded later in the course, revert to HDG and LEVEL CHANGE modes until your PM reassembles the automatics, it flies like a real aeroplane rather than a myster X-box game.

Good luck and hope you manage to enjoy some of it!

PS. Personally I would not trim. Adjust your seat so's you can rest your forearms on your thighs and use wrist action to control the pitch. But then I'm a product of RAF Central Flying Skule, and what would they know.........? :)

[stilton]

Agree, trimming will just make life more difficult, hold the back pressure in the turn and smoothly release it as you roll out.

[RAT 5]

The attitude in the turn is same as for level flight. The a/c box will sit on top of the 2.5 degree line. When you turn the box then becomes a diamond and fills the gap between the 2.5 & 5.0 degrees lines. No back pressure or extra thrust required until passing 25-30 degrees. Then add 3-5% and hold the back pressure, 1 handed, to maintain attitude. Ignore the "bank angle" alert. Trim is not recommended. Now the scan gets very important. Start with attitude and then go via altimeter (is a/c altitude and CMD bug lined up?) to check VSI; is it level? Back to attitude via the altimeter. If VSI was not correct then adjust - gently. If altimeter was not correct then adjust attitude by maximum 1/2 the a/c box symbol. Don't just pull & push; it is very delicate. Across to IAS to check the a/c speed box is aligned with CMD bug, then across to HDG and then check N1% power. Reverse scan back to attitude and repeat.
On roll out, as you pass 30 degrees be ready to reduce the N1% and release the back pressure, gently, to maintain zero VSI. The attitude remains the same throughout. Start the roll outs 20 degrees before the required heading; although that will depend on your rate of roll. Perhaps a little earlier on first attempts. (I note B-Mad's AOB theory). Rack it over the other way without interruption or hesitation and repeat until you have disappeared up your own APU.

[fireflybob]

Sort of selective radial scan then..?

[RAT 5]

'Selective radial' on an NG = 'Horizontal'.

Sadly, after the initial thrill of session 1 in the TQ course, and the FD is switched back on with the SFI reciting the mantra of "follow the flight director' it is sad to see that any type of scan has long been confined the past. Blind faith will get you only so far. But this issue has been thrashed to death, so no need to repeat.
Interesting to note that an EU very major carrier has now adopted the 1st 3 sessions of a TQ course as basic flying. No FD's, all good raw data stuff, then add the FD and repeat, then add the autopilot and then add the non-normals.
Perhaps the common sense teaching has finally come full circle, with some. Unfortunately not all. The difference being that this outfit does not charge for the training, so expands it and improves their quality; others keep the cost down and expand their SOP's and use of automatics. Also been done to death; I was just adding a report of what I've been told by their trainers. May the preaching be heard far & wide to those mis-believers and doubters.

[Capn Bloggs]

And if you feel a thump as you roll out, you've done well! Oh, sorry, this is a sim... :}

But then I'm a product of RAF Central Flying Skule, and what would they know.........?
That explains a lot!!! :E

[RAT 5]

Ah, the days that would also happen at the bottom of a loop. Gave one a smile.

[Centaurus]

Adjust your seat so's you can rest your forearms on your thighs and use wrist action to control the pitch. But then I'm a product of RAF Central Flying Skule, and what would they know.........?


Oh no - please -not another RAF v Civvy pissing contest. You don't need to tell anyone where to place his elbows, forearms, and wrists just for a turn. It's whatever makes you comfortable.. :ok:

[RAT 5]

It's nothing to do with a military v civvy p-contest. Somethings just make good sense. Finesse is often easier with less leverage. Gripping the control with a fist like on a 44 magnum, or even an axe lumber-jack style and pumping from the shoulder, does not help delicate control. It is not the easiest way to feel the trim status of the elevator. With 3000psi pumping through your veins a light touch with finger and thumb is all that's needed, when you are in trim. Balancing the fulcrum on your elbow helps the over controllers. It's not quite F16, but then what is.
I'm sure it is all in the eye of the beholder; there is no right and wrong, so please do not let us start this topic spinning out of control to a never ending continuous bun fight.

[No Fly Zone]

As you begin the turn, pull a little. as you recover to level, near the new course, ease off and keep a close on the altimeter. At least in this case, big airplanes are like little airplanes and it works.:D

[Judd]

Lighten up Rat 4. You don't 'alf dramatise things laddie


Like [quote] Gripping the control with a fist like on a 44 magnum, or even an axe lumber-jack style and pumping from the shoulder, does not help delicate control. It is not the easiest way to feel the trim status of the elevator. With 3000psi pumping through your veins a light touch with finger and thumb is all that's needed [/quote

[misd-agin]

Adjusting the seat height so that you can rest your forearm on you thigh? Haha, that's a good one. Does the seat go that high? And how do you roll into the turn when the yoke hits your thigh?

[BARKINGMAD]

I should have said "adjust your seat armrests", so I take the hit on that one!

However, my tongue-in-cheek remark about RAF CFS actually disguises my deep respect + admiration for that training organisation.

They taught me to fly, then they taught me again to fly properly before they taught me to teach other pilots. I must have been successful at this as they assessed me as "Above Average" in 2 different instructional roles. 42 years of mil then airline ops and all my landings = total takeoffs must prove they got it right?

Hamble, Oxford and Perth, as used by the UKs flag carriers, operated quite effectively on the RAF instructional system for years, and I'd like to believe the traces are still there in the current training empires around the world.

Interesting to note the bile which oozes out from some civilian trained aircrew when the military (training system) is mentioned?!

One has to ask were these individuals rejected by their country's armed forces aviation branches and have held a grudge ever since?

The OP was looking for assistance but has also been treated to the sort of bitchiness more appropriate to the ladies lav in some grungey nightclub after too many "sherbets" have been downed!

Angel83, please don't let this sort of c**p put you off what you're aiming for and I hope you never have to share a flight deck with said "bitches", as I fear their CRM will probably be the variety which is dragged out and practised during sim and line checks and never seen again on a daily basis. :(

[biggles61]

Just handles like any other conventional non-fly by wire aircraft in a steep turn, back pressure required to maintain height, additional thrust required to maintain 250 kts. Boeing does not recommend trimming in the turn. Refer FCTM 7.13.

[A37575]

They taught me to fly, then they taught me again to fly properly before they taught me to teach other pilots. I must have been successful at this as they assessed me as "Above Average" in 2 different instructional roles. 42 years of mil then airline ops and all my landings = total takeoffs must prove they got it right?

Has it ever occurred to you old chap that it is quite probable those Ppruners who are teasing you may well be current or former military pilots. God forbid they might also have belonged to various other country's Central Flying School establishments. Forget blowing your own trumpet about being assessed as Above Average and all that sort of boasting about how many years you have been in the game. Many of those who contribute to Pprune pages have been there - done that, but don't strut. :=

[111boy]

steep turns, add some power and some back pressure, maintain level flight and a constant speed. Children of the magenta line will struggle, pilots won't

[CL300]

all in all, just fly the plane...