Fog - the great leveller

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Looks like someone important won't be getting to bed early. Challenger (presume RAAF) from Canberra missed at YMML, tried YMEN, circled some more and just landed at YMAV with the vis somewhere between 900m and 100m (consecutive METARs)

PS I'm not really a plane spotter - just stuck in Sydney wondering if I'll end up in Melbourne or Brisbane - the two possible alternatives VA have given me....

[jas24zzk]

Driving home 2 hours ago in the eastern side of melb, Ground level vis was about 200 M at best...was a very slow trip :eek:

[Jabawocky]

Hey UTR,

That will teach ya to live down there.

Not far from AY but this was 9am at Deni…..icing n the mirror at ground level, Temp -2.0C

Glad I was only seeing this by SMS and not actually there. It was 19dC and climbing (CAVOK) where I was :}

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/FGDeni_zps67d60734.jpg

[Wally Mk2]

20DME ML on the 340 radial it was clear skies, I know 'cause that's where Wmk2 lives:-)
Got the Quad drone out today & video'd the muck...yuk!

You can see the murk down Sth from ground level, now I know why I left the rat race many years ago:)
'Tis that time of year, high pressure, cold clear nights, the Fog God goes to work:-)


Wmk2

[gerry111]

I suppose that's why some Sydney residents refer to Melbourne as "Bleak City"... :eek:

[gassed budgie]

Fog as far as the eye can see.

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/8317/ed431f.jpg

This was taken about 0815. I confidently predicted that the fog should start to lift/break up by around 0900. I wasn't even close. It was more like midday or a bit after when it finally started to disappear.

[Wally Mk2]

Gee 'GB' ya must have had a sh1t load of fuel:E


Wmk2

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Hey Jabba

I spent end of last week in Mt Gambier - a place invented to make Melburnians feel good about their weather.

UTR

[Homesick-Angel]

High pressure system, no wind, low overnight temps and high dew point.. Pretty much the perfect scenario unless you actually have to get anywhere by air..

[neville_nobody]

Well this is why YMML spent a small fortune on a CAT III system.

[Homesick-Angel]

So why so many delays?

[PLovett]

Evidently the fog rolled in early last night at YMEN. It was still there as I approached LACEY this morning at about 0915 and was going to hold for 30 minutes when advised that it was clearing from the north. Made a visual approach to 17 when you still wouldn't have got in off a 26 ILS. :uhoh:

Mind you it was -1 at YGTH this morning and the bleedin' aircraft needed de-icing yet again. Never so pleased to get airborne and get the heater on and thaw out. ;)

[Yobbo]

I gather Australia does not have any Cat 111 or Cat 11 runways?

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Well this is why YMML spent a small fortune on a CAT III system.

Don't know about QF but VA appear to be using CAT II only as they have been delaying flights and had some go missed and divert with RVR < 400m or so. Captain on my flight last night gave a long description of 400m being the minimum required.

Even some INT missed out yesterday so clearly use of CATIIIb isn't universal.

I gather Australia does not have any Cat 111 or Cat 11 runways?

Melbourne is Cat III, Sydney is Cat II, the rest are CAT I

[Desert Flower]

I spent end of last week in Mt Gambier - a place invented to make Melburnians feel good about their weather.

Heard a RFDS aircraft talking to the base a few afternoons ago saying that fog was starting to form at YMTG, & they wouldn't be doing any more flights in there that night!

DF.

[shortshortz]

Jetstar were getting in last night using CAT IIIB autoland. 75/75/75m min - fog was well above that, at around 300m.

[KeepItRolling]

10 minutes earlier there Lovett and 17 wouldn't have been an option either!

[Just N Cider]

How were flights still departing from RWY 27 in MEL when the Mid Point RVR was U/S and the vis was below 550m on all the other zones?

[fujii]

ML RWY 27 is available for LVTO to appropriately trained crews. Minimum 125 metres visibility. RWY 16 also 125 metres or 100 metres LOC guided takeoff.

550 metres applies to CAT I landing provided the TDZ transmissometer is serviceable.

[Howard Hughes]

I spent end of last week in Mt Gambier - a place invented to make Melburnians feel good about their weather.
Ahhh Mount Gambier, fog one day, 35 knot crosswind and rainy the next! ;)

[Rate1]

Hey Budgie what type are you flying.

[PLovett]

10 minutes earlier there Lovett and 17 wouldn't have been an option either!

I know. I had just received the ATIS and was preparing for a hold when centre came through with the news that it was clearing from the north. Much feelings of relief but even then it took me ages to get visual on YMEN. The fog really changed my perception of what I needed to look for.

[Just N Cider]

ML RWY 27 is available for LVTO to appropriately trained crews. Minimum 125 metres visibility. RWY 16 also 125 metres or 100 metres LOC guided takeoff.

550 metres applies to CAT I landing provided the TDZ transmissometer is serviceable.

Thanks for that -- however when the MID Point RVR is U/S, how can the crews takeoff? My understanding is that the START and MID Point RVR is required for take off as a minimum when below 550 RVR?

There were still departures from 27 the other night when the MID Point RVR was U/S for a period of time

[shortshortz]

I think you'll find it's Touch Down Zone and Mid OR End...
All zones when the fog reduces vis below 200m, which it wasn't Tue night.

[KRUSTY 34]

Is that an Aerostar GB? 700p maybe?

[sms777]

I would say it's a 601P Aerostar.....;)

[KRUSTY 34]

I certainly stand to be corrected SMS, but the intercooler intake below the cowl could suggest a 700P, although I think there are some 600's around with the bigger engine mod? In fact I'm not sure there are that many (if any) genuine 700P's in OZ at all.

Sorry 'bout the thread-drift, just curious that's all. :)

[gassed budgie]

Hey Budgie what type are you flying

Started life as a 602P when Piper pushed it out through the factory door. Now a 700, sporting 350hp a side.

Krusty, I think there might one genuine factory 700P still around out here. Saw it advertised for sale around 12 months ago.

[404 Titan]

Just N Cider

Our company minimum RVR for Take Off Melbourne RWY 16 & 27 is 150m with all three RVR zones reported and HREDL & RCLL & RCL. If the MID or STOP END RVR is US minimum RVR is 200m.

[Pinky the pilot]

Slight thread drift if I may;

Just relaxing in the Cu Lodge here in Takikawa with a glass of red before heading out for a feed. Glider towing today was interesting to say the least with the thickest haze from humidity I have ever seen!:eek:

The max temp for the day was around 29C with very light and variable winds and seeing that this time of year is the tail end of the rainy season, quite often we see very hazy days.

As the day progressed the wind speed dropped and the haze progressively thickened.

All the launches I flew today were to 1500' agl except for the last one. The last launch was the club's Fox Glider (Fully aerobatic)and supposed to be to 3100' agl for an aerobatic practice.

Passing through 2100' I noticed that the haze was so bad that horizontal visibility would have been less than 4000M and the vertical vis was worse! (Can someone explain that?:confused:) And at 2500' the Fox pilot called the excercise off and asked me to take him directly overhead the field.

After he released I turned away and to my surprise found myself effectively IMC for about 15 seconds!:eek: Thankfully the towplane, a Robin R400 has a standard panel (AH, DG etc)

It almost seemed like fog! An education, to say the least.

[sleeve of wizard]

Take-off minima are generally expressed as VIS or RVR Limits. Where there is a specific need to see and avoid obstacles, a ceiling, or climb gradient will be specified.
a) According to the information available to the Commander, the weather at the aerodrome and the condition of the intended runway to be used should not prevent a safe takeoff and departure.
b) Take-off shall not be commenced unless weather conditions at the airport of departure are equal to or better than applicable minima for landing at that airport, unless a suitable take-off alternate aerodrome is available.
c) When the reported visibility VIS is below that required for take-off and RVR is not reported, a take-off may only be commenced if the commander can determine that the RVR/VIS along the take-off runway is equal to or better than the required minimum.
d) When no report of VIS or RVR is available, a take-off may only be commenced if the commander can determine that the RVR/VIS along the take-off runway is equal to or better than the required minima.

[KRUSTY 34]

Thanks GB.

Noice!