USA anyone? Lets all go!

[DeltaT]

On AFAP.
Nothing happening in Australia, so it's worth a shot I reckon.
Anyone with any background info, airline, aircraft, award wage?


ATPL holders needed NOW for USA - For First Officer Opportunities

A fantastic opportunity is available to work as a First Officer on Regional Jet for a major USA Airline. In addition to building your Airline experience you will be able to enjoy living, exploring and flying around the USA in one of the worlds most sophisticated airline environments.

The Airline expects a minimum two year commitment from you and in return will pay for all your training including a Type Rating on the Regional Jet that is used by the Company, your return airfare, visa's and other associated costs of moving to the USA and the local award wage.

Applicants must be Australian citizens holding an ATPL & Command Instrument Rating and undergo a USA security check

To apply please email your CV including full details of your qualifications and experience to: [email protected]

Interviews for suitable candidates to be held during August

[27/09]

Sounds a bit dodge to me.

[4 Holer]

I heard a whimper the company JetGo from down under is borrowing some regional Jets or swapping out some N regional aircraft as they cannot afford any more of their own. Maybe something to do with that operation.
The email address is not that or a supplementary regional from the US....

[Goat Whisperer]

Because US airlines recruit with an iinet address.

Next it'll be hotmail.

[DeltaT]

I know what you are saying, but I got a airline job from a yahoo address once!

[waren9]

and because theres a pilot shortage in the us

and we all know how aussie pilots feel about 457 guys from overseas. and kiwis :E

[deadcut]

the local award wage

Which comes to a grand total of $17,000 per annum :}

[sapperkenno]

Can't see the airlines that pay these crap wages blacklisting anyone... The industry doesn't work like that, and $$$ is the deciding factor. I'd imagine someone willing to work for pennies would be welcomed with open arms...
Not saying I agree with it, but that's the way it seems to be working.

[Captain Dart]

Go for it. A quarter of a century ago during a certain event, there were plenty of Americans taking up jobs over here.

[50 50]

The ad posted on AFAP July 22 for regional F/O is certainly different from the norm. I know F/O salaries in the US are crap, and regional ones are even worse, but are they really so desperate for pilots there that they advertise here?

Does anyone think this is a good opportunity?

Perhaps for some of the well to do that can afford the terrible wages?

I have read that many major US carriers are no longer flying to regional hubs due to the fact that they cannot crew their regional feeder airlines due to the crap wages.

Still......

[PLovett]

I have read that many major US carriers are no longer flying to regional hubs due to the fact that they cannot crew their regional feeder airlines due to the crap wages.

Possibly but may also be to the requirement that RPT crew have a minimum of 1,500 hours. A legislative change that came into effect in the last 12 months.

[as fragged]

Or an excuse for a working holiday... Although the award wage might mean lots of work and not much holiday!?!

[50 50]

I guess that's why they ask for ATPL holders. Not much different to here, except here they tell you a CPL will suffice, but won't actually hire you without an ATPL.

One of many articles in the US.

How miserly airlines created their own pilot shortage - The Business Journals (http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/02/commuter-airlines-face-pilot-shortage.html?page=all)

Google US pilot shortage.
17-20k a year creates its own shortage.

[aussie027]

There is a duplicate thread here-
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/544057-first-officer-opportunities-advertised-usa.html#post8574628


There is NOT a pilot shortage in the US.
I was just discussing the US job situation last night and saw this advert today.
There may be a great shortage of people who cannot afford to live on a virtually non existent wage.

Regional carriers may be struggling to find reasonable quality candidates with the 1500hrs min and FAA ATP certificate as now required for a regional or any other FAR Part 121 air carrier operation now that the FAA changed the min requirements after the Colgan Dash 8-400 crash.
AFAIK this came into effect in the last 12 months.

Still if this ad is legit it will lead to a job that you CANNOT financially live on in any US city where you are likely to be based.

Also, IF you leave the company that originally employs you, most likely your US temporary work visa will be canceled and you will be required to leave ASAP.

An excellent and 110% correct article here-
http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/02/commuter-airlines-face-pilot-shortage.html?page=all

Tread carefully for anyone thinking about it.

[zappalin]

Weren't Rex trying to bring in US regional pilots to fly their Saabs not long ago?

What has changed so much?

[smiling monkey]

Applicants must be Australian citizens holding an ATPL & Command Instrument Rating and undergo a USA security check

Is this the minimum requirements to apply for a regional jet job in the US? What about the 500 multi-engine command time that Australian regional operators require us to have here, not to mention 100 hours on type and 5 friggin moon landings? :rolleyes:

[004wercras]

Yep, $22k p/a with crap conditions and you probably get to fly half way across the USA, sleep an hour on a piss stained couch in a rampies muster room before you even sign on! Yep, the USA has a few "Colgan's" still - where do I sign up???

[Capn Bloggs]

Is this really on the AFAP website??

[globalexpress62]

Job Description

This position is responsible to pilot the Cessna 208 "Caravan" for scheduled flights and low level flight operations; and pilot the Cooperative's two Cessna Citation 560 "Encore" aircraft.

Required Skills This position requires continuous use of keyboard/computer; frequent sitting, standing, walking, and use of foot controls; and occasional bending, climbing, kneeling, reaching, crawling, pushing/pulling up to 150 pounds, lifting up to 50 pounds and turning valves. Hand and power tools for aircraft maintenance are frequently used. Finger dexterity, ability to perform close work, good color vision and hearing, and the ability to speak are required. Requires the ability to analyze data and reports, conduct research, implement recommendations, and supervise others. Must be able to develop plans, procedures and goals; present information to others; work under stress; and make decisions under constraints and during critical events. May frequently work in noisy conditions flying at an altitude of 45,000 feet (approximately half of the incumbent’s time is spent flying an aircraft).

[50 50]

Check it out bloggs. Sure is.

[CrazyStuntPilot]

Yep, $22k p/a with crap conditions and you probably get to fly half way across the USA, sleep an hour on a piss stained couch in a rampies muster room before you even sign on! Yep, the USA has a few "Colgan's" still - where do I sign up???

This is gold. Some airlines in the US are still like that, I used to work for one but the starting salary was even lower. But seriously this ad sounds fishy.

[SHVC]

If this was a serious ad, why wouldn't they just advertise the position properly? Like name of company, aircraft type and a company email address.

I think this is more information gathering for some up to no good people. Stay away ppl.

I think it's time for AFAP to change and require that an ad must have advertise ABN or name if company. If I want to sell my car online I have to advertise the rego or last few digits if the VIN.

[Mach E Avelli]

I think SHVC in post #25 has it right.
The fact that they don't identify the aircraft type or company suggests it is some kind of ball busting exercise to keep a lid on local wages and conditions.
Also, have they cleared this program with the relevant immigration authority?
The Yanks are very picky about who they allow in on work visas.
Should it prove to be kosher, a candidate would need to consider carefully whether the investment in relocation costs and two years minimum service living below subsistence level would eventually be repaid by being welcomed into a better airline job.
Meantime if our local airlines do start hiring again in the next two years, those pilots who hang in here could get lucky and jump ahead of those who venture offshore anyway.
The only good thing I see here is if the offer to pay for training by the employer does prove to be true and with no other string attached than two years return of service.
As always, caveat emptor.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I flew on a B1900 from LAX to Merced a few weeks ago - they have stripped the interior down to 9 pax seats because they can't get FOs with ATPLs.
The cost of living in the USA is very very low compared to here. 3 of us ate breakfast in a diner every morning for less than $25 including tips - you would be hard pressed to get breakfast for one in Australia at that price.
Preferred spirit of Choice in Aus is $58 for 750ml or $30 for 1.75lts in the US... that's $78/lt vs $18/lt for exactly the same product.
Fresh fruit and veg about half of the Aus price.

On the down side, these low prices are due low taxes which means not much social support as we know it here. All fine till you get sick!

You can't judge the advert till you make an application and get more info. I suggest it is a recruitment firm on a fishing trip or an operator doing same.

Surely it can't hurt to apply and find out?

[DeltaT]

Reply as follows:

We are an organisation that has been appointed by the USA Airline to conduct pre-screening of applicants and at this point, the Airline has requested that we do not reveal company details until we move to the next step in the process.
A few points to note:
1. We have received a number of applications from people that do not yet hold an ATPL. You must have an ATPL for this position. Some applicants have the issue of their ATPL imminent and of course these applicants will be considered.
2. We have received a number of applications from New Zealand Citizens. We are currently checking with our client as to whether this opportunity can also be offered to New Zealand citizens.
3. Some of the applicants are highly qualified with thousands of hours of experience. Due to the renumeration offered (US$ low 30k's) this opportunity is probably best suited to someone with no or limited airline experience that is looking for an opportunity to be provided with a medium size jet rating at no cost and a "start" in the Airline industry.
We are also in the process of checking with our client as to whether there are any opportunities that can be offered to highly experienced applicants.
We have received a significant number of applications and will be reviewing these over the next 10 days.
Once again, we thank you for your interest and will be in contact again with every applicant by Saturday 2nd August.

[Anthill]

Make sure that the position includes a medical plan. A visit to a GP will cost you $250. There is no Bulk Billing!

In the car park at KLAX adjacent to RWY 25L threshold there are dozens of camper vans. These are where many regional pilots live. Salaries in USA for pilots will not sustain you and you will need a second job or another income stream. Remember Colgan?

I understand that the local rules will require 1500 hours. A visa to work in the USA could be useful. The Yanks do Aviation quite well. Don't arrive on their doorstep expecting to show them how it's all done. FAA check rides and oral exams are thorough and make up for how slack the written exams are.

[lee_apromise]

1. We have received a number of applications from people that do not yet hold an ATPL. You must have an ATPL for this position. Some applicants have the issue of their ATPL imminent and of course these applicants will be considered.

Guys with 1500hrs but without ATPL can still obtain FAA ATP by passing a written test and type rating checkride. Insisting on ATPL holders is quite a nonsense.

By the way, I'm curious whether they are hiring aussies based on E-3 visa. Does anybody know?

[dano3108]

Just another thing to consider is the FAA ATP rules are changing AUG 1.
"One of the final rule’s provisions will require applicants for an ATP certificate to complete a new, FAA-approved Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program (ATP CTP) prior to taking the knowledge written exam.
Still unknown, also, are costs and prerequisites. At a minimum, the programs will consist of 30 hours of academic coursework, and 10 hours of training in flight simulator training devices (FSTDs): six hours in a Level C or higher full flight simulator and four hours in a Level 4 or higher flight training device (FTD). Instructors for the training programs must hold an ATP certificate, and have had experience in Part 121 operations."
Will this airline pay for this??

[lee_apromise]

Just another thing to consider is the FAA ATP rules are changing AUG 1.
"One of the final rule’s provisions will require applicants for an ATP certificate to complete a new, FAA-approved Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program (ATP CTP) prior to taking the knowledge written exam.
Still unknown, also, are costs and prerequisites. At a minimum, the programs will consist of 30 hours of academic coursework, and 10 hours of training in flight simulator training devices (FSTDs): six hours in a Level C or higher full flight simulator and four hours in a Level 4 or higher flight training device (FTD). Instructors for the training programs must hold an ATP certificate, and have had experience in Part 121 operations."
Will this airline pay for this??

Those sim training can be a part of type rating anyway.

[dano3108]

Yes true, but the point is that it's not going to be as simple as showing up to take a written with minimal study anymore.

[deadcut]

Due to the renumeration offered (US$ low 30k's)

We have received a significant number of applications

F**king typical.

[50 50]

Ad now removed from AFAP. Didn't last long.

[Homesick-Angel]

I've had to write this a few times lately
If it looks like poo, smells like poo, and tastes like poo..
It's poo...

[50 50]

Thank god you didn't step in it!

[ZKK007]

Hi guys

I am a Kiwi who has worked in both NZ and Australia and is now flying for the regionals here in the USA. I moved to the states for love and definitely not for the flying job. Love makes us do ridiculous things sometimes!

I was made aware of the job posting from a few friends in Australia who wanted to know what the story is here in the USA and if this job is worth considering. I wanted to post this to give you all some insight into what it is like flying in the USA.

Background and regulations:
The regional airlines started on the basis of cheap labor and fairly simple aircraft. Turbo props were the standard equipment and most people only had to stay a few years before moving onto the major airlines. This system worked quite well while the minimum hiring requirements were 250hrs as this was a great way to build experience before stepping up to the jet. Then 9/11 happened.
A lot of pilots were furloughed and some pilots from mainline flowed back into the regionals. The regionals by this time were now flying relatively complex jet aircraft like the Embraer 145 and CRJ200. The regional pilots were now stuck in their regional jobs as the major carriers ceased hiring. The great recession of 2008 resulted in bankruptcies and airline mergers between some majors. During bankruptcies, pilots and other employee groups gave major concessions in order to help the company survive and get out of bankruptcy. Things didn't get any easier for the industry when Colgan 3407 crashed.
As a result of the Colgan accident, the FAA implemented new rules which came into effect August 2013. The minimums for an airline First Officer were now 1500hrs minimum (can be lower if military or if training was at an approved school with a 4 year degree) and an ATP. This is where the USA pilot shortage began. Airlines are blaming the new regulations for the shortage while the pilot unions are saying that there is no pilot shortage. There is only a shortage of pilots willing to fly for poverty wages. A new regulation that is coming into effect in August 2014 is that ATP applicants will now need an extra 10hrs sim time with 6 of those hours being in a level C or D simulator. This will increase the cost of obtaining an ATP and result in fewer ATP applications.
Meanwhile, the pilots shortage argument is still developing. Airline management of some regional airlines have come to their pilots offering new aircraft, such as the Embraer 175 and CRJ900, to replace the aging 50 seat jets. The catch? Well, management thinks we should take a pay cut to fly these "shiny new jets."
In summary, the regional pilots have lost about 10 years in career progression due to 9/11 and the 2008 recession. Majors have only just recently began hiring and they are expecting to continue hiring large numbers in the next few years. This is primarily due to retirements since the retirement ages was increased from 60 to 65 years old about 5 years ago. The major carries will not have a pilot shortage though, it will be the regionals and it has already began.

Pay:
First Year regional FO's will take home about $23k after tax with per deim included. Second year pay is about $31k take home and it slowly increase from there until you make captain (about a 6 year upgrade time right now).
It is cheaper to live in the USA, but not that much cheaper. I would equate first year pay to about AUS$35-38k while living in Australia with the higher living costs. I hope that gives you all an idea of what to expect in terms of compensation.

Other opportunities:
The business jet market is huge over here compared to elsewhere in the world. These jobs pay better but are harder to find and even harder to get a work visa for. Job security can be a worry if the company you work for ever goes under. But for comparison, I know an FO that started on a BD700 for about $70k and is in a 17 days on 13 days off schedule.

The future for regionals:
Well, that really is anybody's guess. Regional airlines will start flying bigger jets with less frequency to some destinations. This will help with the pilot shortage somewhat, but this will not solve the issue. Increase of pay seems to be the logical answer, but airline management obviously does not want to do this yet. Right now it is a "wait and see what happens" kind of game.

To those who want to come over, good luck! You will meet some great people and have some fun over here. I hope this has given you some insight so you know what to expect.

[MarkerInbound]

Those sim training can be a part of type rating anyway.

Just for the record, buried in all the FAA guidance for the new new ATP training program they say if an airline decides to offer it, it has to be separate from the initial new hire training program. They do say if the airline puts people through the ATP training program they can apply to have the initial training program reduced. Then you have the problem of having two different initial programs.

[harvs17]

I’m an Aussie currently flying in the USA for a large jet regional. I have dual citizenship and also moved to the USA for love. Damn these American women! Currently NO regional allows foreigners to fly for them unless they have a permanent residency in the form of a green card or US citizenship. Also NO regional airline in the US will sponsor you or is allowed to under the current system. The airlines would need to prove first that there is a lack of pilots here in the US before the government would allow visas to foreign pilots which is something the pilot unions here would have something to say about.

Currently, there is no shortage of pilots, just a shortage willing to work for what a regional will currently pay.

For example my experience on first year regional pay is this-
$23 an hour at a monthly guarantee of 75hrs = $1725 Gross
Per Diem paid at $1.65 an hour

Now being on reserve for the first 6 months meant that I never broke guarantee and per diem was only a couple of hundred dollars a month.
Now take out deductions of State Tax, Medicare, Federal Tax, Social Security, Medical, Dental, union dues and uniform and your net comes out to about $1200 to $1300 a month. Not a whole lot to live on and pretty embarrassing as a “professional pilot” to earn so little. Try living on this after paying the rent in a major US city.

The regionals here are starting to panic as the endless pool of cheap pilots is starting to dry up and they are trying everything possible rather than raising pay and benefits. Three of the largest regionals totaling around 9500 pilots voted down substandard or concessionary contracts put forward by their respective companies earlier in the year. It will be interesting to see how things play out. As for the job posting on AFAP I find it hard to believe that this is legit. Why would a US regional who are already a bunch of tight wads bring in foreign pilots on an all expenses paid move to the US?

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

Hello to all on this thread from the land of Oz. I am a yank who works for a major carrier and who does union work in training. In the past our training guys worked very closely with the company to ensure that they were getting people who would pass the required training with no problems.

It does not save the company any money at all to hire marginal candidates who are always on the verge of not qualifying or who are unable to complete training. Many of our committee members are active or former check airman.

However now the company has definitely given our training committee the cold shoulder. It is not that management labor relations are bad, they are not. It is not that the company is not profitable, they are. It is because the mess the industry now finds itself in is purely of their own making.

The current version of the Regional Airline Industry in the United States did not arise out of an independent market forces. It is a creation of the Major carriers. Immediately after President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978, there was an explosion of small regional carriers operating turboprop equipment that were feeding the new hubs that major carriers were forming.

In the late 70's and 80's there regional airlines popping up everywhere. Look at this Wikipedia site to see how many there were.

http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States

As the new deregulated industry matured there was no longer endless growth and some of the hub system was mostly complete. The majors now needed to compete with a "branded product" instead of a simple "code share" so they started the Wholly owned concept. American Eagle was one of the first. Delta acquired Comair, an independent Regional, United had a major stake in Air Wisconsin etc.

By the Early 90's the growth had stopped and the airlines were looking for ways to cut costs. Along comes Bombardier and Embrarer with an idea to build the RJ or regional Jet. The problem was the scope protections built into the major airline pilot contracts. Those contracts forbade the Regional's from flying jets under the majors colors.

American went on strike over the issue and the President intervened, as he is allowed to do under the Railway Labor Act, and the RJ was firmly entrenched in the US. (I believe that the first RJ was operated by Comair, under a Delta contract but that was done under an agreement with the Delta pilots.)

The only problem with the RJ concept of Regional Airlines is that the RJ is a crappy platform for fuel economy. On a per seat basis the RJ is far more expensive to operate than a larger Boeing or an Airbus. When the CRJ first flew in the US in the mid 90's to cost per barrel of oil was about $22. It is now over $100. Delta parked the majority of the Comair RJ fleet in the desert. http://aviationdoctor.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/crj-death-22145611.jpg

The US RJ industry is a Frankenstein Monster that the Major's created. It cannot stand on its own. It was created for the purpose of defeating the scope language of major carrier pilot contracts. It uses inefficient aircraft and due to high fuel costs the profitability of the industry is always on the edge. The pilots have all been beaten up and are not willing to give concessions when the major partners are turning in record profits. The majors realize they are unlikely to get significant cost relief from pilot contracts.

The majors are turning to any scheme they can to see if they can get pilots to fill the seats at the regional level. What I see from this effort is the RAA, (US Regional Aircraft Association) doing an internet reach out to Australia and NZ to see if qualified candidates willing to send CV's and apply. If there are then there will be a major lobbying push up on Capitol Hill for waivers on green cards due to a shortage of qualified candidates in the US. US law allows immigration waivers where an employer can demonstrate a shortage of qualified individuals in the US for a given job or profession. The problem of course is not a shortage of pilots but a shortage of dollars to pay those pilots.

If you think that the United States Congress provides the best form of government that money can buy then I invite you to send your resume and work for less than a 40 hour week at McDonalds pays. Our Congress will most likely grant exemptions and a whole new crop of hopefuls will get off the "boat" with SJS, or Shiny Jet Syndrome and then realize later that it was all a scam.

[Johnny_Rook]

Before you come over here be prepared for this:

They Took Our Jobs - YouTube (http://youtu.be/rUTnNKhF-EU)

You've been warned!!!

[A Squared]

Devils advocate hat on for just this post, but...

Even though the salary itself is ridiculously low, IF one was going to commit to only two years (and assuming they got the gig), wouldn't they do well due to the fact that the endo is completely paid for on a jet, all moving and relocation costs are paid including airfares and visas, ...

They said "and other associated costs of moving to the USA"

You read "all moving and relocation costs are paid "

I'm sure that what you inferrd is what they would like to have readers believe, but it's certainly not what they said. I would suggest that "other associated costs of moving to the USA is something like, we'll pay for you to check, not just one, but *TWO* suitcases (under 25 kilos)

[A Squared]

One thing to bear in mind when considering this:

I get the impression that in many parts of the world, perhaps most parts of the world, it's pretty common to have airline hiring done through a third party agency. Not always, but common enough to be unremarkable.

Here's the thing, it just does not happen with US based carriers. They do thier own hiring. I have not ever heard of a US based airline hiring through a third party agency. That's not to say that it has *never* happened, but it is really uncommon.

So that kind of raises a red flag with me, which might not be obvious to those from places where it's unremarkable.

Also, as others have been mentioned, the hiring of expats is not one of those things which is done either. Sure, there are guys who emigrate, independently, for the own personal reasons and subsequently get hired at airlines. We have a couple in this thread, and that's all good. But a program of "importing" expats in large groups to fly for US airlines? Has not ever happened to my knowledge. Not saying it couldn't start, but it's unprecedented.

So, if someone is offering as a third party agency, a hiring program to bring foreign pilots into the US to fly for US airlines, I would proceed with a great deal of skepticism.

[DeltaT]

The agency, the airline, the "intention" is legit.
Just make a call to AFAP to verify it as I have. Easy.
Whether it all happens remains to be seen.

[A Squared]

The agency, the airline, the "intention" is legit.

According to the reply you posted, the the "agency" is declining to identify the airline. So, you know that the Airline is legit how, exactly? You apparently have some information beyond what the agency told you. So what additional information do you have.



Just make a call to AFAP to verify it as I have. Easy.

Sure, because if it was just a scam, when you called them , they would tell you "naaahhh, we're really not legit"

Look, I'm not claiming to know that they are or are not legitimate, I'm just saying I'm a bit skeptical, and claiming that you *know* they are for real because you contacted them and they told you they're for real is just silly.


Edit: I see that AFAP refers to the Aus. Federation of Air Pilots, not the "recruiting agency" itself.

OK, so you call AFAP and they say, yeah, this agency with no name, recruiting for an airline they won't disclose, is legit, because? Because they paid their fee for having their ad listed on the website?

Really, what does AFPA know about whoever sent in the ad, and what basis do they have for vouching that they are legitimate?

If this is an established, legitimate recruiting company with a known history in airline crew recruitment, then why are isn't the name of the company included in the advertisement?

And if they're not an established recruitment agency with a known history, what basis does *anyone* having for claiming that they're legitimate?

[chimbu warrior]

According to the reply you posted, the the "agency" is declining to identify the airline. So, you know that the Airline is legit how, exactly?

I would be very wary of providing lots of personal information to a "front" who is claiming to offer employment on behalf of an "airline".

As A Squared points out, airlines in the US (also in Australia and New Zealand) do their own recruiting, so this could just be an identity theft scam. I'm not saying it is.........but just reminding people of the possibility.

Additionally, if this was legitimate, candidates still need to obtain an FAA ATP, which just got a whole lot more expensive.

If something sounds too good to be true..........it probably is.

[A Squared]

Additionally, if this was legitimate, candidates still need to obtain an FAA ATP, which just got a whole lot more expensive.

Yeah, I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation down at the Immigrations office.

OK, so you want to arrange 2 year work visas for this group of 50 Australian Pilots to come to the US and fly for XYZ Airlines?

Yes, sir, very much so sir.

OK, and why is XYZ airlines not filling these positions with US pilots. (these type of questions do get asked when it's being proposed to issue work visas to foreigners)

Well, you see sir, because the new 121 regulations require XYZ to only hire pilots with US ATP certificates, and there is a shortage of US pilots with US ATP certificates. (Questionable premise, but play along ... )

Ahhh, I see, and so all these Australian Pilots hold US ATP certificates Right?


Well no, they don't, but they'd really *like* to.

ERrrrmmmmm, yes .... I see....

[DeltaT]

Clearly there are people more qualified than I who are lawyers, experienced skeptics, as well as pilots.
Maybe it doesn't pan out.
Nothing to lose in making an application, at certainly no cost to the applicant, compared to other airlines in Australia running scam psychometric testing that none of you are up in arms over. :hmm:

Valid point, what I found out validates nothing.
I know no more than I have stated.
You call AFAP and give them an ear full.

[Jack Ranga]

Youse guys are 'kin funny :D drooling over a 25k job with your 100k flying debt, living in a trailer park eating 2 minute noodles, no medical (if it's provided it will be the cheapest peice of **** they can buy that covers nothing but ticks boxes) come back to Austraya after scabbing on your American bruthas & straight into a left seat A380 job :D

Australian Aviation, if you thought it could get any lower, way to go!

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

For those of you who consider this as a career move, please consider the following:

Once upon a time there was a company called American Airlines. The brave and good people of American gave considerable concessions to save their company from Chapter 11.

Alas, it was not enough. It wasn't enough because at the time in question, every other single airline went through bankruptcy and was able to require draconian cuts and give backs from their employees. The airline companies also shafted other creditors and didn't pay their bills. If they paid at all it was pennies on the dollar.

So in late 2011 American Airlines filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.[Come on in the water's fine every other major legacy carrier has done it.] The negotiations with all the employee groups were tough but in the end all groups eventually came to agreements. Envoy, the former American Eagle, brand was wholly owned regional partner of the new American. This pilot group also took cuts to help the parent company survive.

Now forward a few months after the New American has emerged from bankruptcy and it is discovered that Delta Airlines has a provision in their "Fee for departure" agreements with their regional partners that they can revisit those contracts and hold all the regional feed contracts to the next lowest cost figure.

After making promises under oath to the bankruptcy court and paying executives obscene bonuses the new management of American is demanding concessions on a bankruptcy contract from the Envoy pilots because they learned that another carrier has low cost provision.

Several days ago on July 24th American Announced the following:

Airline Also Announces Capital Deployment Program FORT WORTH, Texas, July 24, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines Group Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL) today reported its second quarter 2014 results.


Second quarter 2014 non-GAAP net profit excluding net special charges was $1.5 billion, a record for any quarter in the history of American Airlines
Second quarter 2014 GAAP net profit was a record $864 million
The Company also announced a capital deployment program, including over $2.8 billion in debt and aircraft lease prepayments, a $1 billion share repurchase program, the initiation of a quarterly cash dividend, and $600 million of additional pension contributions
As part of the program, American's Board of Directors declared a dividend of $0.10 per share for shareholders of record as of August 4, 2014. The cash dividend is the first declared by American since 1980.

This is a representation of what you will be dealing with. There is no pilot shortage in the US. There is merely a shortage of qualified pilots who will work for the conditions and wages that are being offered. Other major airlines treat their regional partner pilots just as badly. They will do this while they make profits that are historically unheard of. No airline in the history of the United States, which has traditionally had the largest companies, has ever turned in those kinds of results.



It is not too far a stretch to say that if you take a job at some regional carrier here in the US that in a year or two you will be making the decision to go to work, or join a picket line. The company you work for will be holding that green card over your head. You may have to walk the picket line from Sydney.


Just sayin....

[DeltaT]

Just for information purposes, I found the Visa (http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html) that will be used most likely

[training wheels]

What's the latest with this? Anyone have any info?

[Centaurus]

I would sincerely hope anyone who did that would be blacklisted.

Black listing is illegal in Australia as is compulsory unionism. And so it should be in todays society. It is a union ploy to frighten pilots into staying at home on the dole rather than look for work. While that may be an over-simplification of the process it is not far from the truth.