Cost effective Backup EFB solutions

[Captain Garmin]

Guys other than surrendering to paper, what do you use as a cost effective backup device for your iPad? I use AvPlan but my renewal is coming up...

[Creampuff]

Another IPad.

[compressor stall]

Smartphone doesn't cut it according to CASA.

Wording in CAO 82 EFB bits states something along the lines of, "....the specs for an EFB also apply to any backup EFB".

[Ozdork]

Perhaps you could start here (http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/543935-celestial-navigation.html):ok:

[deadcut]

Wait for Avplan to release their Android app and then pick up a used Nexus 7 for 100-200 bucks from eBay.

Although their initial release looks pretty basic (ie no flight planning) I hope they will add more functionality in the coming months.

[Captain Garmin]

Thanks guys, one of the reason's I moved to AvPlan from OzR (other than better flight planning and WX display integration/map overlay) was they don't charge for the backup EFB license.

Found this on the AvPlan website regarding the android version. Might 'borrow my son's nexus when I fly :O

AvPlan EFB | AvPlan Lite for Android (http://www.avsoft.com.au/avplan/avplan-lite-for-android/)

[Feather #3]

Capt G, OzR now permit iPad x2 plus iPhone on the licence.

My good mate who's still doing IFR CHTR uses Avplan and Bevan's product is excellent. However, for my (now) VFR PVT flying, OzR is just fine.

The backup is my wife's iPad (she says I'll need it so rarely it's not a problem!)

G'day ;)

[Jabawocky]

Some of you will remember I went to the FTDK school of cockpit technology. So it will hardly surprise you that even for PVT ops we have two iPads and my phone!

Next thing is what if you arrive at Your point for approach briefing and there is a page problem in your efb? We had it happen on OzRunways once after diverting to our alternate. Not happy Jan! This was back when we had paper too. Mad scramble through 15kg of paper in turbulence and rain etc.

Solution at present is two iPads running both AvPlan and ozrunways and for the moment still the old Jepp subscription. The Jepp may go in future. I prefer their plates but the overall tool of Avplan and ozrunways beats Jepp hands down.

Redundancy in hardware and software is the go, and this is mainly my suggestion for IFR in PVT ops or any CHTR be it VFR or IFR. If you are PVT VFR you really should not need anything more than one iPad and have it on your phone just in case. It is sub optimal on your phone but it works if you are caught out.

I strongly recommend having both apps as they are both cheap, both excellent products and a good backup for each other.

Jaba the paperless pilot :-0

[uncopilot]

OzR now permit iPad x2 plus iPhone on the licence

Where can I find a reference that this is the case? The only thing I can find on Ozr site says;

Each subscription to OzRunways is for viewing on 1 iPad & 1 iPhone at a time. To run two iPad's at the same time, you'll need two subscriptions. We also need to buy the data & have chosen pricing option to keep the app cheaper for single subscriptions; please don't complain as we do NOT have any additional fees to unlock functionality like our competitors - we are generally cheaper for 1 subscription and about the same price for 2 subscriptions.

This is the way suggested to run two iPads;

You can switch iPad's by going into OzRunways->Settings and tapping 'sign out', then signing in as existing UserID. This requires an internet connection to sign in. It will automatically sign-out the other device.

[Feather #3]

Apologies to All!:O

Uncopilot, that is what I do to switch between iPads. Sorry, I missed the full sense of the question.

However, when caught out the other day, the iPhone did provide a useful backup, but clearly demonstrated the limitation at 155kt!

We did a couple of long sectors earlier this year running the two programs simultaneously (VFR). The seamless maps on the Avplan worked well!

G'day ;)

[Old Akro]

Waiting for FTDK's reply where he lists the current 12 devices he uses in flight!!!

Except for maybe getting a frequency, the iPhone is only of use as a novelty. Like Jaba, I have Jeppview & Avplan. I like Jepp better, but the overall integration of Avplan with flight planning, etc will ultimately win.

Depending on the complexity / expected difficulty / knowledge of airports my backup may include:
iPad
Jeppview on Motion CL900 tablet ( Jeppview is starting to look very old & clunky but it's in flight page is still best).
Paper print outs
PC with Jeppview in my briefcase.
Garmin 496

When I finally upgrade to a new iPhone with the new connector, I'll upgrade the iPad also. I think this will be the trigger to move back to the dark side with AsA and just use Avplan, which is a pity because their chart layout is generations behind Jepp.

If you have a Jepp subscription, putting Jeppview on a cheap windows tablet is not a bad backup option.

[SkinFricti0n]

Im using EFB right now on my iPad but i was thinking of installing ozrunways on my iPhone. Not sure whether its really worth it though.

[Capn Bloggs]

The backup is my wife's iPad (she says I'll need it so rarely it's not a problem!)

I don't understand... :confused: Either she knows you don't go flying much or... when you do go flying, you take her ipad, which would be a problem unless she is with you?? :confused: :confused:

Redundancy in hardware and software is the go
Absolutely! These are consumer-grade gizmos made in China. Don't trust!

[Jabawocky]

A bit like your consumer grade product made in Long Beach CA….. :}

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Waiting for FTDK's reply where he lists the current 12 devices he uses in flight!!!1) Motion Computing Tablet on the yoke running Jepp FliteDeck
2) Mini iFad in the side pocket with Oz Runways
3) Spare Motion Computing tablet with FliteDeck in the bag
4) Oz Runways on iPhone in the pocket
5) A5 paper printouts of Departures, Arrivals and Approaches for the planned flight in the bag

I still subscribe to Jepp IFR Enroute paper charts only - cause they are convenient.

Dr :8

[rutan around]

Strike me pink !

1) Motion Computing Tablet on the yoke running Jepp FliteDeck
2) Mini iFad in the side pocket with Oz Runways
3) Spare Motion Computing tablet with FliteDeck in the bag
4) Oz Runways on iPhone in the pocket
5) A5 paper printouts of Departures, Arrivals and Approaches for the planned flight in the bag

I still subscribe to Jepp IFR Enroute paper charts only - cause they are convenient.


The whole reason I bought an I-Pad air was to get away from carrying 50 different charts with my trip going through the corner of each one.:{
Surely an I-Pad and a smart phone should be more than adequate for VFR. You do know the V stands for visual dont you?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Surely an I-Pad and a smart phone should be more than adequate for VFR. You do know the V stands for visual dont you?

Who flys VFR?

Dr :8

PS: I have on one occasion had all my electronic wizardry fail for one reason or another while in IMC being vectored for the ILS. I was grateful for the paper appr plate close at hand. I guess I could have used OzRunways on my iPhone but would have had get myself put in a hold while I got sorted.

[Dangly Bits]

I've never had a backup for my paper charts!

My DAP's wandered down the back of the aircraft without my permission or knowledge one night! Just asked Centre to read out the NDB approach and I drew it in the back of my flight plan. Sorted!

[Feather #3]

Capt B,

Sorry to further confuse. You are correct on all counts;
1. I don't very often fly in circumstances where I need to carry charts,
2. She's quite happy to let me take her iPad if I need the backup EFB, and
3. It's much more fun with her along, so #2 is even more rarely a problem! :D

G'day ;)

[Captain Garmin]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'll stick with AvPlan and checkout AvPlan Lite for Android and it's subscription model to use the Nexus or buy a second hand iPad mini to use my current free second device subscription.

CG

[Feather #3]

As they say, further to my last;

Rowan has sent an email to say that OzR users can have a second iPad backup subscription for $20. So, sorted!:ok:

G'day ;)

[zanthrus]

So we need to buy a second ipad as well?


What a load of ****e!


CASA can pay for it the bastards!

[compressor stall]

So we need to buy a second ipad as well?


Only if you're single Pilot and don't have paper backups.

For two crew, the FO's iPad is considered backup for the Captain's.

[Capn Bloggs]

CASA can pay for it the bastards!
Get a grip. If you're flying by yourself, we couldn't care less what you do or don't have when your beloved tablet rolls over and dies. But if you have fare-paying pax or are mixing it with aeroplanes carrying fare-paying pax, then accept the fact that you need a backup for your Chinese-made consumer gadget with potentially untested software. Do you ever wonder why airliners cost so much, and how cheap they'd be if they were made in the same factory, to the same standards, as your ipad?? It's because they and their software are built to a standard 10+ times higher so they don't fail, and if they do there's multiple backup layers.

Quite frankly, if you don't have a backup of some kind, you're a fool and a menace to the rest of us you share the sky with.

Use paper backup or get a second gizmo. Simple.