Hoist operation above land

[Mercure1734]

Hi all, a small practical question open to all hoist experienced helicopter aircrews...
The Dutch maritime hoisting procedure include a "left and back" cabin operator call to move helicopter away from hoisting site during cabin operator work inside the cabin (secure victim on seat prior next extraction) so that the pilot has the hoist spot in sight.
This call seems not appropriate at all during land operation especially in confined area's.
What's your opinion?
Which procedure do you use in such configuration --> land (mountainous area, confined area) and multiple hoist extraction on the same spot?


Thanks a lot for your support!

[busdriver02]

If hover references are good where the aircraft currently is, no need to move unless the downwash is causing problems on the ground, in which climbing or moving are both options. I use the offset hover you describe over water to use the guys in the water as a hover reference. I've never moved away like that over land.

[The SAR RC]

Unless you have another crew member on the left hand side of the aircraft that can check that the area is clear, be that a co-pilot or someone else in the cabin, it is unwise to move the aircraft to the left. There should be no movement asked of the right hand seat handling pilot unless someone can check that that direction is clear - a pilot sitting on the right or a winch operator with a man below him on the wire cannot provide a clearance for something they cannot see. If the winch operator is no longer responsible for a man on the wire but is merely, as you describe, working in the cabin then there should be an opportunity for him to check clearance on the left before directing the pilot to move that way. Having said that, if the topography is such that moving left from a winching position may lead to the aircraft's safety minima being breached, you're probably too close anyway and should consider either increasing your height or trying a different approach.

It's worth bearing in mind that if you're using a hi-line or equivalent, its effectiveness will be reduced if you stay in the overhead. It's only once you move about 10-15 metres from the overhead, usually to the left, that the hi-line proves its worth in stopping spins and swings. With this being the case, it is self-evident that a co-pilot will be needed to provide that left clearance. The winch operator should not leave the man on the wire.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

The Dutch maritime hoisting procedure include a "left and back" cabin operator call to move helicopter away from hoisting site during cabin operator work inside the cabin (secure victim on seat prior next extraction) so that the pilot has the hoist spot in sight.
This call seems not appropriate at all during land operation especially in confined area's.
What's your opinion?


Is there not a slight contradiction between your description of the Dutch SOPs and your question?

In my experience, winching in a true confined area is not that frequent - much more often, you are very close to an obstacle on one side but there's nothing at all on the other. If the aircraft is in the confined area, then you may be able to land rather than winch in the first place...but if you're above the obstacles which are making the confined area, moving left may well be an option.


There should be no movement asked of the right hand seat handling pilot unless someone can check that that direction is clear - a pilot sitting on the right or a winch operator with a man below him on the wire cannot provide a clearance for something they cannot see


That's true in theory, but the terrain on the blind side is unlikely to have moved! Of course it's desirable to have someone check you're clear left, but I would strongly suspect (admittedly I missed this era myself) that in Whirlwind/Wessex days (ie single pilot), aircraft regularly moved left away from a cliff/crag/boat without clearance because the Winch Op would need to stay in the door to monitor the Winchman and survivor. Can any speak from direct experience?

[stilllearning]

IMOH once again we are complicating simple things .... If you entered the area you should know what's around (simple SA issue ...)
If you are making unconfortable the people down, either go up or best move out ...if possible back and left (if hoist in right side ... if not, the opposit without problems since you get the best view ...)
If you don't have room to move ... that is it for the discussion ...
ALWAYS relay on the winchman indications .... if in doubt, ask for confirmation before taking any other action ...
Keep it simple and safe ..

[Mercure1734]

Thanks a lot for your replies.
It often seems simple but many items come into play to make decision.
Knowing in detail the complete surrounding of the area you enter is not possible, you can have an idea of what surrounds you but once in the hover the distances remaining behind you become unclear.
I'm flying heavy downwash aircraft and try to determine best option for the future of our land operations.
Personally once overhead the working area I'm not keen on moving left and right and even less backwards...

[stilllearning]

if the place is so tight that you are not sure of clearances after going in, you need instructions from the back to make any movements.
If your helicopter has a heavy downwash, you should consider seriously the conditions it creates on the ground. If there is snow or low temperatures it`s a very important issue to consider. You'll have to move out if it's going to take more than a couple of minutes ... or either use at least 50 to 70 mts. cable lenght ... which it might be another issue in depending places and sorroundings ....
Fly safe

[Mercure1734]

Thanks for interesting comment ;-)
It's nice to share experience...

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How have you got to the overhead for winching without knowing what is around you and what your clearances are?

The only scenario I can envisage is descending vertically into a confined area to then conduct the winching evolution - in that case you can't move from the overhead without positive clearance.

In most cases you are delivering the winchman to make a medical assessment and prepare the casualty - in those cases you would normally get away from the site to give him peace and quiet, returning only to deliver more medical kit or perform the recovery.

If you are winching a stretcher out of a confined area, a hi-line can still be used to minimise the spin from directly underneath.

The maritime procedures are usually required when using a hi-line to facilitate numerous winching evolutions or multiple survivors with the winchman remaining on the deck to supervise and manage the hi-line. The pilot can keep good hover references and be responsible for clearances whilst the winch op is busy managing the casualties and getting them seated.