Thinking hard about Emirates

[KCW]

Hello all!

I'm 34 and employed in corporate aviation flying a Falcon 2000 out of SFO. I'm thinking hard about applying for Emirates.

I'm unattached to the SFO area, and desire to fly larger equipment, worldwide. Looking for a career, not just a job. I have spent a fair amount of time in the middle east and don't mind it one bit. I am attracted to the mostly tax free income, as I have about $50k of debt I would like to repay here in the USA. I make $120,000 per year at my job, but I think even first year pay would be a raise as far as take home is concerned, because of the tax benefits.

Currently I have 5300 hours, all corporate, 1400 jet SIC, and 2500 jet PIC. 1200 turboprop PIC. Five type ratings.

So fire away, do I sound like someone Emirates would want? Any thoughts and advice is very welcomed.

[harry the cod]

Apply, see how you get on and see if you like Emirates once you've been interviewed. Treat the interview as much as a test for them as it will be for you. Once you commit, it will be difficult to walk away. A troll through archive posts on here should give you a fair view of life here in the UAE, not just in Emirates. There will be some that say stay but you should at least spend a few days here to see if it's something that will work.

What I will say though is that if you live in and around San Fran, I can't see why you'd want to leave. I wouldn't.

Harry

Just to add that don't come just for financial gain. You will make about $95,000 basic first year, net as no income tax. Another $12,000 in flight pay with transport provided in a car to and from work. Accommodation is provided with all bills paid. Meal allowances down route will pay for what they're designed for, meals and a few drinks. There are positives and negatives, I'm sure there'll be plenty on here soon offering the latter viewpoint.

[BeCareful]

Is DA2000 the biggest plane you've flown in your career? If so, chances are you're not what EK is looking for. They have a stream of kids coming out of Ryanair and easyJet out of Europe with Boeing or Airbus time, and that's what they're looking for.

Even for regional guys stateside, if you were flying a 50-seat EMB-145 or CRJ-200, you'd not be considered qualified... you'd have to get into CRJ-700 or 900 or EMB-170/175 to be qualified for EK.

Also, you said all your experience is in corporate aviation. Just how many bizjet operators in the US want to see experience in bizav, EK wants to see airline experience which you don't have. As far as EK is concerned, you've only flown a toy jet. They don't care about all the extra duties you do on a daily basis or what's involved. You've only flown a toy jet.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but if you want to fly for the airlines, plenty of airlines in the US hiring, and you can make a lot more than 120k after a couple of years.

[Iver]

Take your Falcon 2000 time, apply to Republic on the E175, fly it for at least 1 year as FO and then apply to EK. Republic would hire you in a heartbeat (I have read on a US forum they are having problems filling classes) and you would have the airline experience you require on an aircraft larger than the CRJ/ERJ.


Good luck.

[flydream1982]

So...you tell him to leave his 120,000$ a year job to go to Republic and make 25,000$ a year, just to have a chance to send EK a resume?
Wow :eek:
No wonder why the whole industry is in such a state :ugh:
So...what if EK does not select him in the end?

[Dirigible]

Stay where you are. Larger equipment is overrated. SFO vs Dubai is a no brainer. (ex-bizjet pilot looking to return):)

[lazy8s]

I think the US considers all income earned taxable, no matter where you live or where its earned it must be reported and paid.

[Payscale]

Don't jeopardize your present position for a chance with emirates. Move up the ladder, not down to eventually move up. Too risky.

[glofish]

I know it can only be hypothetical, but as an indicator for the sense of the intended move, just ask a second question:

"How many of you EK pilots would accept an instant swap of positions?"

The answer might surprise you, but not us ......

[Schnowzer]

I would, 120k/year living in SFO, put me in coach!

[dubaigong]

I am in the UAE and if it was possible I would immediately give you my job to take yours on the great Falcon 2000 to make 120000 $ a year and be in SFO.
If you manage to get a job on a big jet you will most probably quickly find out that after a while the "whow" factor gone it is just an aircraft.
Except for some pilots with huge ego there is nothing special in flying big jet compare to smaller one ; to be honest it is even easier as it is more stable.
I have flown more than 20 different type from a Cessna 152 to the B747 and believe me or not but today what I am looking for is to be able to get a good life style in a place that I like and in a relatively good atmosphere.
Good luck with you choice and think twice before leaving SFO...

[Dropp the Pilot]

I second that emotion.

[Jay_solo]

"a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"

Stay where you are. If your boss/company is treating you well with that $120K a year and you have a good lifestyle in sunny Cali, don't throw it away, with the hope of flying a big jet based in the desert, with a completely alien culture and management style.

EK im sure can be a good gig, but like others say, big jet, small jet, who cares??be lucky you have a flying job in the first place that pays well.

[Wannabe Flyer]

A query on the tax front: As a US citizen would your income in the middle east still be tax free in the US? If not then "I am attracted to the mostly tax free income" would be meaningless.......

US Taxes While Living Abroad FAQ :: American Citizens Abroad (ACA) (http://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/us-taxes-while-living-abroad-faq/)

[Chocks Away]

Just a little bit of information (http://gulfnews.com/business/general/dubai-world-s-67th-most-expensive-city-for-expatriates-1.1358235) for you to assist. :ok:

Here is the "good oil" (http://www.mercer.com/newsroom/cost-of-living-survey.html) though.

:ok:Happy landings.

[ManaAdaSystem]

So...you tell him to leave his 120,000$ a year job to go to Republic and make 25,000$ a year, just to have a chance to send EK a resume?
Wow
No wonder why the whole industry is in such a state
So...what if EK does not select him in the end?


Iver is a junior LOCO FO in Europe. Despite his lack of experience in anything else, he will visit all the forums on PPRUNE telling experienced pilots what to do/not to do with their careers. As in this case. He will not tell you he has have never worked for Republic or EK, (or EY, QR, Scoot, various japanese airlines, etc, etc) and that all the knowledge he has on these companies come from Google.
He is very good when it comes to posting pictures of the 787, I'll give him that.

[bob777]

You must be out of your mind!

[Pin Head]

If rejected once, can you try again?

[Stone_cold]

Another quote from Iver :
Hey Stone Cold,

Go F yourself. You know nothing about me, my background or my network of fellow pilots flying worldwide. I often share information from friends in various regions and I have traveled extensively - but I can't share my knowledge or opinions. I am offering intel and you offer nothing. If your opinion differs, well then share it instead of wasting our time with your pathetic slams. You must feel important sounding tough on your keyboard..

Careful Manada , He has a network, friends and has traveled extensively , so he is an authority . This was his response to me when I advised another beneficiary of his expert/relevant knowledge to do further additional research . Maybe you might expect a similar retort .

[ManaAdaSystem]

I'm soo scared Stone :)
He has already had a go at me, twice actually.

Is that a secret network of pilots worldwide? :eek:

[Fart Master]

Stone Cold. Put him on your ignore list. He's been spewing his particular brand of hatred for years. It's better to avoid at all costs.

[CaptainProp]

Having seen both worlds, and gone from airline to corporate, I can only give you one advice - Stay were you are! If you want to see more of the world, try to get on a Gulfstream or a Global in a flight department that operates worldwide. With your CV that should be doable, especially if you have worked up a good network over the years flying bizjets.

Good luck!

CP

[bringbackthe80s]

Man you are doing the job you studied for and living in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. A job is a job and a plane is a plane, it all gets very old very quickly.

Enjoy what you have, this is the best advice anyone can give you.

[Iver]

Stone Cold and Mana,


I have to laugh at your comments. Why waste your time bullying me and others with your derisive comments?

This Falcon pilot wants to move to the ME to fly for an airline - but he is not eligible at this point because of his aircraft type and experience. Logically, he should consider a change if the ME is his absolute priority. If he wants to fly for an airline in the US, having experience on a Part 121 operation will help that effort too. It is not a requirement in the US, but it would likely be helpful and show his commitment to a 121 career path. So, flying for Republic temporarily (i.e., 1-2 years) on the E175 is one logical alternative if he wants to be more attractive to airlines in the US or in the ME (required to qualify for EK, EY and QR if those are his goals). Some US airlines like JetBlue, Spirit or Virgin America might take him right now given his jet time - but Middle Eastern carriers won't. Getting hired by Virgin America onto the A320 might be a good idea too since VA is based at SFO and could give him Airbus experience that would be valued by EK. If he really, really wants to fly for an airline in the ME, he needs to get experience in a larger aircraft type - that is a fact. He can take the advice or just leave it.

By the way, having spent time in California for part of my initial training, I know that $120K is equivalent to $40K salary elsewhere after taxes and sky-high living expenses. Leaving beautiful but ultra-expensive SFO will be great for his bank account too.

[nolimitholdem]

If you've run up 50k in debt, and it's due to poor money management skills, going to the ME won't help a bit. As many of EK's finest demonstrate on a constant basis, more disposable income only increases one's ability to take on more debt. It boggles the mind, the wasted opportunity. Of course this isn't to suggest that your own debt was due to poor decisions, but you mentioned it as a big factor in your decision to look at Emirates. A mistake, in my opinion. It's just a crapshoot and certainly anyone coming for the foreseeable will be at the lower end of the pay spectrum for a long time. It will just take a lot longer, trying to realize any potential benefit.

I would do some serious research into FATCA and how that will affect US expats in the future. Already many banks and financial institutions won't allow "US Persons" to open accounts, and are closing accounts of Americans. The ones that will accept US clients will most certainly be reporting all financials to the IRS so could possibly negate any tax benefit anyway.

But financial motivation aside, unless you're unemployed or working at some regional for peanuts I wouldn't even give a second's thought to leaving one of the most beautiful cities in the world to live in the world's most overrated.

Looking for a career, not just a job.

EK might have been a career once, but it's definitely just a job now.

[5000 metres]

OP is in SFO, not sunny Cali.

Nevertheless I echo the bird in hand opinion.

[Stone_cold]

Iver ,

You are the one who seems to resort to "derisive " comments directed at anyone who crosses you .



http://www.pprune.org/canada/542826-more-airbus-nbs-ac.html#post8549424

Quite an argument you have going on over in Canada . Seems everyone "bullies " you !

That said , I have advised in the past that as you have no actual experience , living and working in these regions/airlines , that due diligence should be done by those seeking advise, as your posts come across speaking with authority . Even the latest $120,000 v/s $40,000 statement . Maybe in Mumbai , but San Fran is not even the most expensive city in the US , it is right up there , however the differentials are no where near to what you allude to , but " you know" .

If you continue to proffer career advice on topics which you have no real-world knowledge/experience , then expect a disclaimer , as I see your advice as reckless . If you see it as "bullying " then so be it . Report me to the "bullying police " !

[Jay_solo]

Cali = Short for California

[TangoUniform]

KCW,
Even if you were eligible, size of a.c. wise, you would be ruining your career path coming here, IMHO. If you want to go the 121 route, I believe this time next year, depending on a few factors, the legacy and major cargo 121 carriers will be begging for people with your experience. At some, you will be making 120 your second year and flying a big jet to who knows where. Additionally, your upgrade here now will be at least 5 plus years and that's what the recruiters are telling prospects.


Could you do 20 years here? That's another big question. And the IRS will be looking over your shoulder. So take the advice of those that have posted, most are saying stay right where you are. I too, would trade places with you in a heartbeat, no questions asked.


So think looooong and hard about coming to the big three here in the ME. The managements will change your terms and conditions with the continued shifting sands. You ready to do 90 hours across multiple multiple time zones usually during the back side of the clock? Your call....

[Iver]

Stone,

I spent nearly 6 months in the Bay Area during my early flight training and my brother works in IT in Silicon Valley as we speak. So, I do know a lot about SFO. The cost of living in that area is outrageous.

Regardless of this chap's decision, I was merely offering friendly advice and he can either take it or leave it. I wish him luck!

[KCW]

If you've run up 50k in debt, and it's due to poor money management skills, going to the ME won't help a bit.

Actually, it's due to my girlfriend coming down with brain cancer and my financing most of her medical care.

Thanks all for the advice. Feel free to keep it coming, but I'm seriously reconsidering my options!

[CaptainProp]

You have PM.

CP

[Shaky Hands]

If you've run up 50k in debt, and it's due to poor money management skills,

Actually, it's due to my girlfriend coming down with brain cancer and my financing most of her medical care.

Nolimitholdem
Nice one.

[nolimitholdem]

Sad about the girlfriend (if true - these are the Interwebs, after all) - but I did say IF the debt was due to mismanagement.

Regardless as to how a debt was arrived at, I stand by my comments that the ME is not an automatic cure for money woes.

[KCW]

I am coming up on one year here at Emirates, and I must say, I LOVE IT!!

I am assigned as FO on the B777. Yes, I fly a lot. Yes, the work is fatiguing. But the job is exactly what the company described, and is exactly what I was looking for. I can honestly say that I can see myself retiring here, I like it that much.

There's really something special about landing after 13 hours and looking back at the B777 as I walk away, and realizing that aircraft just carried us to our destination, and I, along with the Captain, were entrusted with the safety of it, and the safety of our passengers.

I always wanted to do long haul flying. It is everything I had hoped for, and more. And Emirates is truly the home for me!

Special thanks to everyone on this site who guided me along the way. And for those considering Emirates, just do it!! It's everything you can imagine and more. The negative stuff you read here? Remember, there are bad apples in every bunch. Fortunately, at Emirates, there are far more great apples than bad apples.

[Emma Royds]

Nice try KCW but the sarcasm is just a little too obvious! :}

[gardenshed]

Come back in a couple of years when the gloss has well and truly worn off, and see if it still is the dream job that you say it is now.
Doesn't matter if its A or B grinding through the night it is still a piece of tin poking a hole in the sky.
Most people here walk away after the flight just grateful it is over.

[glofish]

KCW

Captain America in new diapers?
Same sad home story, same lame company appraisal.

Hmmm .... :ugh:

[GoreTex]

glo, captain america lied this guy is sarcastic, read it again slowly

[SOPS]

If KCW is genuine....he needs help. He will wake up in about 4 years time and realise what he has subject himself to. Or perhaps he won't, and wonder why he gets really sick.

[thirtywest7]

I think at some point in time we all need help SOPS. If KCW is really genuine, we don't know what kind of life or job he/she had before coming here. As much as this place is a hellhole for many, it can factually be heaven for others, at least in the beginning, then it just becomes a job maybe.

All I'm saying is that people's origins and circumstances are different. Maybe by coming here, he/she is getting the help they needed.

Also, maybe if the majority had suitable options, these forums would be less acoustical.

Enjoy the wine ;)

[CAT3A]

I think they will try anything to recruit people

Desperate times for those that are planning to ride the storm

[misd-agin]

Go! There's someone in the U.S. who'd like your job but won't go to the ME chasing big jets.


It's a multiple 'win-win' scenario. You're happy, the guy replacing you is happy, the guy replacing that guy is happy, and on and on.

[Geebz]

Having lived in both the ME and SF, and having flown both corporate and airline, my suggestion would be to stay where you are and apply to a US major. Particularly Delta or United. Both airlines consider corporate pilots in an attempt to produce a diversified new-hire cadre (diversified in the industrial sense of the word).

I don't know how close your company expects you to be to the airport but consider moving as far east as is possible, like maybe the Delta or Tracy area, and using that housing savings to aggressively pay down your debt. But I sympathize with your plight, living in the Bay Area is tough, living in SF even harder. $120,000 just doesn't cut it in such a city. Sure it's a nice place but it's prohibitively expensive to live in unless you're making north of $400,000/ yr. I'm surprised your company can get away with paying $120K for a pilot in SFO.

Do yourself a favor and avoid living in SF city at all costs, save your money/ pay down debt. Been there, done that in SF, for 10 years. It's an over-rated proposition. After you visit all the main attractions twice, all that's left is the bar scene, which is pretty hideous in SF anyway. If you need city life, just take the BART in and get it out of your system. Big cities are for college grads and or career-minded people whose jobs are based in a downtown area. No reason for a pilot to waste money living in such a place.

Of course that's just my $.02 but since we stay in enough big cities for work layovers, I feel I get plenty of the big life that cities are all about. When I get home I like to have space and not deal with traffic/ stress/ noise/ pollution/ cost that is all associated with big cities.

Worse case scenario with the above strategy, you'll pay down your debt. Best case you'll get hired with a major, still pay down your debt, and get to fly big equipment. But I agree with that other poster who said there's no difference between big and small jets. After the initial 90-day honeymoon, it's an airplane. It's all about schedule/ lifestyle after that.

[wanabee777]

...there's no differnece between big and small jets. After the initial 90-day honeymoon, it's an airplane.

I always felt that the smaller airplanes (in general) were a lot more FUN to fly.:)

JMHO