F-35 combat jet's UK debut at Fairford Air Tattoo cancelled

[just another jocky]

F-35 combat jet's UK debut at Fairford Air Tattoo cancelled (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28257349)

[BEagle]

Does that mean that there's now a gap in the flying display which could be filled by the Vulcan?

:E

[Dysonsphere]

lol yes but they will never admit it now. :p:{

[NutLoose]

The 262 is cancelled as well from whatever show it was going to fly with a Meatbox, or so I am lead to believe. It's gone tech I believe.

[Willard Whyte]

262?

Messerschmitt?


Anyhoo, wonder if the posters will be edited, since they feature a "F-35 debut" caption.

No, thought not.

[bobward]

The 262 was on the original list for Farnborough. As you say, it's now gone from the latest list.....:sad:

[Sandy Parts]

never mind kids - you can come and look at this Met Office Flies in to Royal International Air Tattoo - Fairford (11 to 13 July) - Met Office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2014/airtatoo-fairford) :p (just kidding Mr Metman - love your work!):ok:

[WH904]

It's grim stuff. I mean, who has even the slightest interest in seeing a 146? It was vaguely comical how RIAT built this year's hype on the appearance of the F-35, and then appear to have almost dismissed the Vulcan as unimportant. It's ironic how the plan seems to have backfired spectacularly.

I wonder how long this will go on before even the most committed enthusiasts realise the show is an over-priced dinosaur. It's ridiculously expensive, and comprises almost exclusively of mainstream show acts that can be seen pretty-much anywhere. Waddington's show was brilliant by comparison (and that was no great event). Viggen, Draken, Vulcan, Canberra, three Hunters, three Gnats... What has RIAT got? The Su-22 and that's it.

Yes, one can clutch as straws and list the (dwindling) static exhibits but really, who cares about a Japanese tanker stuck in a car park? Or a Greek A-7 that you'll be able to see in a museum soon. Static aircraft are hardly worth crowing about.

Yes, I know all the reasons why RIAT is unable to match the excellence of their older shows but that means nothing. It is what it is. It appears to still attract enough punters to make a profit so that's fine - good luck to them. But wouldn't it be nice if they stopped billing the event as some huge military spectacular for the aviation enthusiast. It's not, and hasn't been for a long time.

But then I guess you can't blame RIAT. It's the enthusiasts that still turn-up and pay the ridiculous amounts of money. Like lambs to the proverbial slaughter. Madness! :)

[sharpend]

Never mind, you can still turn up and see PitBull; 3 shiny RAF Bulldogs; well one is shiny anyway.:O

[melmothtw]

While I understand your frustration WH904, it seems a bit contradictory to criticise the non-appearance at RIAT of the Vulcan and then immediately ask what's the point of the A-7 being there because it will be in a museum shortly.

[Bigpants]

Well somewhere out in the ether must be downloads of the old Farnborough Shows.

I remember seeing on a black white tv (405 lines) a Brittania doing a one engine approach and landing, Hunters looping, Lightnings roaring etc.

Of course there were quite a few crashes and the crowd was not immune from death or injury but interesting times.

[WH904]

Frustration? I don't really care to be honest - I'm just commenting on the sad state of affairs. I'm certainly not going to RIAT - haven't been for years, it's not worth it.

[B Fraser]

The 262 was on the original list for Farnborough.

Damn :*:*:*:*:*:* I was looking forward to that.

As for the Met Office 146, I can't see the point. I was with Snoopy at Abingdon many years ago and there was a genuine interest from the crowd. A relatively bog standard 146 does not cut the mustard.

[Freefly170]

Wow ! some serious whingeing on this forum.....why does everyone keep going on about the Vulcan ? Sure it's an iconic aircraft but its far from the most entertaining airshow performer. I went to both RIAT and Waddington last year and there were some stunning displays and in my humble opinion two of the best were from a helicopter: The RAF Chinook and a transport aircraft : The Italian C27 Spartan.
I think RIAT continues to put on a very high quality display every year, despite the obvious challenges so if the F35 doesn't turn up......big deal it was never likely to put on a thrilling display anyway. I'm sure it will be a great day out with or without that ugly lump of tin !

[Simplythebeast]

Would have been interesting to watch the fire engines though!

[Always a Sapper]

Anyone else wondering if this is a sign of things to come, I mean the F35 stuck on the ground with the flight characteristics of a slightly used BBQ?

Wonder if it's absence will do anything for the road traffic in the local area?

[The B Word]

Sharpend

Why would I be excited about 3 Bulldogs displaying? That is definately a time earmarked for the beer tent!

Or do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your post? :cool:

The B Word

[D120A]

If they didn't want the F-35 to catch fire, why did they call it the Lightning? :E

[Courtney Mil]

I know we did this recently on another thread, but the last line if this is so relevant now!

F-35 or F-18 Super Hornet: It's really not that complicated - YouTube

[Heathrow Harry]

I guess better safe on the ground in the USA than us having to mount a zillion dollar search for a missing F-35 somewhere under the Atlantic..... ;);)

[side salad]

If they cant fix it in time to fly at Farnborough this will I won't be buying one. I'll get a ford focus instead. ;)

[Robert Cooper]

Latest info at this end, as of three hours ago, is that the F-35 is still grounded.

Bob C

[snippy]

I'm currently serving but had the opportunity to do voluntary work yesterday morning at RIAT and was lucky enough to have the afternoon free to look around. I was working on one of the main entrances and I would say it was roughly a 70/30 split between families looking for a good day out and genuine aircraft spotters. Traffic was heavy up until 11ish then people were commenting on how quickly they had got in after that time. Even I baulked at the price of a programme (£12 they were £8 last year) but they were selling well and families were impressed that it included two posters, one of the F-35 (doh!) and The Red Arrows. I was somewhat surprised that not one platform from BZN was on static or flying display but saying that the 400M did put on a very good display (surprised how quiet it is in the air). To me the show seemed more thinly spread out than last year but this was slightly compensated for the fact that there seemed to be more static aircraft on display this year. If I was a genuine spotter I would have been mighty pi##ed off with the fact that the show was sold on the back of a flying F35, but to me most of the punters seemed to enjoy their day with the kids getting their free stickers etc. Also the Apache + explosions going off was real life movie stuff right in front of people and to me it did seem to be a bit of a day saver. The sun shined and the majority of people leaving seemed to have enjoyed themselves, but I can see the counter arguments about pricing / value for money etc. Oh and my 1st pint of cider next to the Thames did taste good later that evening!

[KPax]

I also went, recently retired after 38 years. The show was definitely poorer than 2 years ago, even if the had pulled the plastic F35 from the far side of the airfield and put it on display it would have helped. There were some great displays including the Turkish F16, the day was spoiled by inflated prices and an incident involving the Red Arrows Gazebo which blew over as it hadn't been pegged down, this left an elderly lady injured (head injury) and FOD all over the apron being used by the Reds and the Frecce. Overall a decent day but begining to look very tired, hope the lady was looked after by the Reds once she was treated.

[P6 Driver]

Overall a decent day but begining to look very tired, hope the lady was looked after by the Reds once she was treated.


A back seat ride with Red 8 on a practice display should help her to forget the injury.

[Wander00]

Would be a bit like the Specsavers advert where the elderly couple end up on the twister ride - "what sort of cheese sandwich was that?"

[Herod]

I see a spokesman for the MOD says the manufacturers will be getting a "shoeing". I'm sure they're terrified. In my day it was "a boot up the a*se".

[Genstabler]

REDS GAZEBO
I am reliably informed that the Red Arrows gazebo did not blow over.
If anything did actually blow over it was nothing to do with the Reds. There are lots of stalls at air shows peddling Red Arrows stuff. There wasn't any wind anyway.
Usual PPRune misinformation.

[Courtney Mil]

Snippy, great report. Thanks for posting. Good to know that folks enjoyed their day and well done to you for your support to the event.

Courtney

[Lima Juliet]

B Word

How was the beer tent seeing as the Bulldogs were just a static?

Sharpend

Why would I be excited about 3 Bulldogs displaying? That is definately a time earmarked for the beer tent!

Or do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your post?


LJ :E

[Lima Juliet]

I hear that the F35 didn't come to the UK this weekend because it is wheelie-bin collection day in Fairford and they didn't want the Council to take it away...

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed/us/products/f35/_jcr_content/product_image.img.jpg/1386967859419.jpg
Wheelie Bin

http://www.wash-a-wheelie.com/bin.jpg
F35

LJ :E

[Courtney Mil]

Is that really true, LJ? Good scrap value, I hope.

[Lima Juliet]

Everything is true on PPrune, Courtney - didn't you know, mate? :ok:

Oh, and here is a picture of it on fire at Edwards the other week...

http://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/Assets/business%20safety/wheelie-bin-fire.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Sorry Leon, Courtney ...

But the real reason why the F-35 is having difficulty is fundamentally down to European Legislation ...


You see you can't operate a Wheelie Bin above 89db :}

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/imagejpg1_zps3caebefa.jpg

[Lima Juliet]

Ever the eye for detail, Coff. :ok: :D:D

[CoffmanStarter]

Anyway ... Our F-35 Desk Officer has just Tweeted (08:53) ...

Just arriving at FIA Farnborough - hoping for an F-35 participation decision over the next couple of days. Will keep you all posted!

[LowObservable]

If they haven't decided by Wednesday they certainly won't show up.

[KPax]

Ah well the 5 of us must have imagined the guys in blue overalls and all the Red Arrow material blowing across the aprons, and the RAF Medical Officer who attended the scene. Must be age or something, sorry for the confusion hope the person involved was ok.

[WH904]

I'd rather watch three Bulldogs than an F-35 to be honest. There's never anything very exciting about a shiny new wonderplane in my opinion, not when there is such a rich heritage to call upon :)

[Lima Juliet]

WH904

I can think of nothing more boring than watching 3x common as muck training aircraft being flown at an airshow;and I think most of the fee-paying public would agree. They want noise and spectacle - the Bulldog can provide neither!!!

LJ

[Heathrow Harry]

Leon - ever seen the Snowbirds??

Trainers they may be but its one of the best shows anywhere

[Bob Viking]

Most European display teams use trainers and all do a good job. If I had wanted to give an example I would have chosen one of them. I have seen the Snowbirds display and I'm afraid they just do not compare to their European counterparts. Long pauses with slow aircraft that are also too quiet.
Teams like the Reds and PdF make up for the lack of noise an F16 or F18 brings with spectacle. There is always something going on crowd centre and they are not afraid to re-shuffle in full view of the public.
I would definitely agree with you if you'd said the Snowbirds are the best display team in Canada.
BV;)

[WH904]

3x common as muck training aircraft

Must be more Bulldogs around than I thought then ;)

If noise and spectacle is what Joe Public wants, maybe they should go to a fireworks display and leave the air shows to folks who are actually interested in aeroplanes, not just cheap thrills?

[BEagle]

Leon Jabachjabicz wrote: I can think of nothing more boring than watching 3x common as muck training aircraft being flown at an airshow.

I used to think that many years ago, until I saw a display of synchronised aerobatics flown by 4 EMUAS QFIs at (I think) RAF Abingdon - in the venerable Chipmunk. A short display, well choreographed and skilfully flown!

[Rhino power]

and leave the air shows to folks who are actually interested in aeroplanes

If that were to be the case, then RIAT would've ceased to exist, years ago! There are far more 'Joe Public' atendees than there are 'proper' enthusiasts, and if you think 'Joe Public' would rather watch three antique, piston engined basic trainers trundling around, rather than a F-16/F-18/Typhoon with burners blazing, then you clearly haven't got a clue...

-RP

[Lima Juliet]

"Common as muck"?

44 on the UK register alone...

GINFO Search Results Summary | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=BULLDOG%20SERIES%20120%20MODEL%20121)

I like the Bulldog - hell, it is better than the Grob in my opinion! But I wouldn't pay good money (like is asked for at RIAT) to watch one, two, three or even nine fly. It isn't a classic like a Tiger Moth and it isn't a warbird. I would also not categorise it as comparable to the Snowbirds that fly the JP-esque CT114 (which does produce noise and is a spectacle).

Like others have already said on here, the Airshow circuit needs variety - and I agree. But it also needs 'spectacle' that some old 'Dogs just don't supply (IMHO). Stick them in a line up of static 'RAF training aircraft through the ages' display and then I would agree.

Otherwise, what next? The Airtourer display team, the C152 Aerobat display team and the Motor-Falke display team? Or a guaranteed cure for insomnia...:zzz:

LJ

[CoffmanStarter]

I used to think that many years ago, until I saw a display of synchronised aerobatics flown by EMUAS QFIs at (I think) RAF Abingdon - in the venerable Chipmunk.

Bring back the CFS Skylarks ... :ok:

[salad-dodger]

and if you think 'Joe Public' would rather watch three antique, piston engined basic trainers trundling around, rather than a F-16/F-18/Typhoon with burners blazing, then you clearly haven't got a clue...

^^^ what he said ^^^ :D

and no, I don't fall into the Joe Public category!

S-D

[WH904]

If that were to be the case, then RIAT would've ceased to exist, years ago
Well, it did actually. RIAT 2014 isn't IAT 1976... not by a long, long way.

Oh, and I've got plenty of clues, thanks ;)

[sharpend]

Well actually, though I lead PitBull, I totally agree with The B Word & Leon. In fact I don't really want to watch any aerobatic team wander around the sky making loads of noise. I think flying is much like sex; far better to do than to watch.

But we were asked to attend and plenty of the public were interested, coming up to us and asking questions. I had a very interesting conversation with an ex Swedish Bulldog pilot who told me a lot about the weapons they carried.

However, we were a freebie for RIAT so that is why the entrance fee was so low ;)

[Genstabler]

KPax

You are a sarcastic arse. You saw something, jumped to conclusions, chose to go public and now continue to show your ignorance in public despite being told the true facts.

I repeat, the tent was nothing to do with the Reds. It was a commercial stall selling memorabilia that hadn't been pegged down. When it went over, some of the Blues, the people you saw in blue overalls, who were nearby, being responsible individuals, went to help and also to pick up the FOD on the pan. You are blaming the wrong people.

Are you a journalist? You seem to have the right aptitude.

Strewth! I really don't know why I bother.

[Freefly170]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WH904
and leave the air shows to folks who are actually interested in aeroplanes

What a classic line ! Of course the RAF, AAC and FAA would much rather show off their hardware in front of a bunch of portly, middle aged, anorak wearing spotters keen to scribble the numbers down in a book, rather than young boys and girls who may just be keen to start a career in the forces.

me thinks you are trolling sir !

[The B Word]

Well actually, though I lead PitBull, I totally agree with The B Word & Leon. In fact I don't really want to watch any aerobatic team wander around the sky making loads of noise. I think flying is much like sex; far better to do than to watch.

Sharpend, I agree for your type of flying. I would suggest that setting up a formation team that actually flies people would be far better than expecting spectators to sit through 7-9 minutes of boredom at a major airshow. The Bulldog was an excellent aircraft for UAS and gave excellent first intros to aeros and formation flying. I agree with BEagle that for a purist a well flown solo aeros display can be entertaining, but not really for the masses. I recall the Blades and Halcones doing stuff at Waddington a few years ago and the only people really watching were the spotters and aircrew.

Did you actually display at RIAT or were you in the static park? Otherwise, I must have been in the beer tent!

The B Word

[hoodie]

... the Motor-Falke display team? Or a guaranteed cure for insomnia...:zzz:

Like everything, "it depends". OK, Fournier RF-4s rather than Falkes, but motorgliders nevertheless. The Skyhawks are still memorable quarter of a century on. :ok:

QnixjAKF1VA

[Lima Juliet]

Started watching it and then missed the rest - must have had a micro-doze in the middle! :zzz::zzz::zzz:

LJ

[hoodie]

You have no soul.

When the rest of a display programme was either the Arrers, or every Nation under the sun showing off their F-16s and Tornados with their bums on fire, that display of piloting skill was just the job as an interlude. :D

[Wander00]

Maybe no F35 at Farnborough, but Friday's programme shows an AV8B - seems a bit of a cheek really

[WH904]

me thinks you are trolling sir !

Methinks you should learn to accept that everyone is entitled to a viewpoint and if you don't happen to agree with it, then you could express your own view - and not simply use this increasingly lazy accusation of "trolling". Is that your standard answer to anyone's views that you don't happen to like? It's a little like sticking one's fingers in one's ears.

Incidentally, the other comments you made are just as meaningless. I don't recall saying anything about the preferences of the display pilots. I simply answered another post that was in support of the standard "family show" of thrills and spills - but of no great interest to anyone who actually has a genuine interest in aircraft. If you want to insult aircraft enthusiasts then by all means go ahead. You might care to remember that the next time you look for a reference source on an aircraft (if you have sufficient interest in aircraft, that is), then you ought to be expressing some thanks to these middle aged, portly anorak wearers who have taken the time to scribble down the seemingly pointless facts and figures that you mock. Without them we'd all be the poorer.