Headley Court to close and move to Leicestershire

[NutLoose]

See

BBC News - Stanford Hall to replace Headley Court as rehab centre (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28241461)

The new place outside Loughborough seems ideally sited, close to M1, and about 10 miles from a East Mids Airport.... It is also centrally located country wise for visitors.

I wonder what is next for the old facility, bearing in mind the Nimby's who objected to the house conversion for visiting families, my suggestions for it are


Young offenders home..

Immigration removal centre

Open prison

:E :ok:

It will be sad to see it go though, I do hope no one loses out employment wise and the building does get put to some fit purpose, something like being taken over by the NHS.

[Party Animal]

Whilst anyone with any sense will fully support a 'rehab' centre for our armed forces, it completely baffles me that the entire costs are not provided from MOD core funds. H4H etc. should not have to donate £8m to make improvements. Everything that could ever be needed should already be provided by public money as a matter of course, let alone an element of gratitude for wounded heroes put in harms way on behalf of our nation.

Sorry but it just disgusts me that we rely on charity to provide a swimming pool etc... :mad:

[dctyke]

I see that the new location will not be just mil, civilians will be treated as well. The worry will be who is in control, mil or nhs managers.

[racedo]

Was there not millions spent on a new pool there ?

Prime Development Land in that area vs UP NORTH.

Not that I believe that would ever be a consideration:rolleyes:

[MPN11]

As someone who has spent the last 6 years flogging myself for a Mil Charity, its brilliant to see all that investment at Headley Court potentially shredded. Or not.

Tick VG for His Grace and colleagues, not sure about the strategy.

http://www.holidays4heroes.org

[teeteringhead]

Don't think Headley is MoD/DIO owned, ISTR all sorts of caveats as to what it could be used for. Think it was willed to be of benefit for airmen - or something.

Spent a very helpful (and enjoyable :E) 6 months or so at Headley a few years back.....

Agree strongly that it's appalling that the new place is charity funded - and I hear that Gerald Westminster paid some/all/most of the bill for it.

[500N]

"all that investment at Headley Court"

I was thinking the same thing.

All that investment and upgrades during the busiest period for years,
to then walk away ?

[smujsmith]

So, the slow but sure deterioration of the military covenant, so beloved of the likes of the smarmy Camoron continue. Whilst spouting meaningless mouth music to con the masses that they actually bother, they quietly move, displace and lose sight of their promises, and commitments. I wonder how long before Dunkinsmith has control of the MOD pensions budget, how long before the ATOS attack troops (or their replacements) are set on our war pensioners? It seems that the only thing politicians spend their time on these days is working out how to justify reversing promises they have made. What a total bumferk!!!

Smudge

[The Helpful Stacker]

The worry will be who is in control, mil or nhs managers.

I'm not sure it matters who is in 'control' as long as measures are put in place to ensure adaquate provision and adaptions are put in place specific to military need.

QE Birmingham has shown the ability for an NHS-run hospital to also host an MDHU quite happily and provide excellent service utilising both military and civilian personnel.

I'll be sad to see Headley Court go, it was working there that convinced me to re-train as a nurse after leaving regular service (to later re-join as an Auggie). This said though the new site is excellent (I pass it fairly often on my commute to work) and will provide much room for expansion, away from the petty idiots of the Mole Valley.

[Wander00]

ISTR from Command Accounts Inspections that HC is owned by a charitable trust. Is the Stanford Hall being mentioned the one near Lutterworth - if so I believe Percy Pilcher did some gliding experiments there - might even have been killed there - he was - see below


"
Death[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Percy_Pilcher&action=edit&section=3)]

On 30 September 1899, having completed his triplane, he had intended to demonstrate it to a group of onlookers and potential sponsors in a field near Stanford Hall. However, days before, the engine crankshaft had broken and, so as not to disappoint his guests, he decided to fly the Hawk instead. The weather was stormy and rainy, but by 4 pm Pilcher decided the weather was good enough to fly.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Pilcher#cite_note-3) Whilst flying, the tail snapped and Pilcher plunged 10 metres (30 ft) to the ground: he died two days later from his injuries with his triplane having never been publicly flown.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Pilcher#cite_note-4)
He is buried in Brompton Cemetery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brompton_Cemetery), west London.

[GeeRam]

ISTR from Command Accounts Inspections that HC is owned by a charitable trust. Is the Stanford Hall being mentioned the one near Lutterworth - if so I believe Percy Pilcher did some gliding experiments there - might even have been killed there

No, that's the 'other' Stanford Hall, not the one proposed for the HC replacement, which is a bit further north up the M1.

[ARCHIE1]

I met and fell in love with Mrs Archie1 just over 50 years ago at Headley Court, in the days when the Orderly Officer used to raise and lower the flag from his wheelchair and MRAF Lord Tedder was an outpatient. Sorry to see the place close.

[ExAscoteer]

QE Birmingham has shown the ability for an NHS-run hospital to also host an MDHU quite happily and provide excellent service utilising both military and civilian personnel.




And how long did it take until it started to work in a halfway reasonable way?

Oh, that's right several years.

[Out Of Trim]

Not best pleased to hear this. This facility has been extended and improved beyond measure in recent years and much of these improvements were paid for by charity. Why should all this charitable funding be squandered for a fast buck.

I know the area well and of course Headly Court is very valuable as just real estate. I"m discusted that the government think they can just poach upon our grounds and flog them off when they feel like it.

Headly Court has been apart of the RAF for decades, I remember camping in the Headly Court ground during Air Training Corps exercises in the 1970s.

:\

[Robert Cooper]

What happened to Collaton Cross?

Bob C

[Bengerman]

Headley Court is not owned by the military but by a trust, they will decide the future of the real estate but there is no benefit to MOD from real estate sale. The site also comes with certain limitations, especially with relation to expansion and/or flexibility.
The new site is largely being funded by the Duke of Westminster with MOD picking up the running expenses.
It should provide a state of the art facility at least as good as Headley Court if the most prized asset, the staff, relocate.

[sitigeltfel]

All that investment and upgrades during the busiest period for years, to then walk away ?

Standard practice for those in charge of public funds.

[Beancountercymru]

More details are here Home | The Stanford Hall Estate Redevelopment (http://www.stanfordhallredevelopment.org.uk/)

[The Helpful Stacker]

And how long did it take until it started to work in a halfway reasonable way?

Oh, that's right several years.

With all due respect it was not the NHS-ran elements that caused the (quite expected) gradual work-up to full capacity.

The skills required to treat major trauma are not quickly and easily learned and whilst many within the NHS had/have treated comparable injuries the military element of QE, even with some of their number having worked within the wider NHS over the years to build their competencies, was actually quite inexperienced.

There are well-understood (at least to those who practice within the military medical/nursing services) advantages to merging military care services into NHS, not the least the ability to maintain practical and theoretcial skills and competencies during 'slack' periods (ie: when Afghanistan ends).

The days of stand alone military hospitals are largely gone, not the least because such units cannot provide the level of continious development/practical experience required to meet the legal requirements of the medical and nursing professional bodies. To be blunt, stand alone military hospitals don't see the throughput to keep their staff competent (legally speaking).

To go back to your commet though, do you think Headley Court was 100% ready for the increases in patients it experienced after Iraq/Afghanistan kicked off? As someone who was based at Headley Court back then I can tell you that many staff had to build-up their knowledge spending time working at and alongside staff from Queen Mary's, Roehampton, especially those very experienced NHS staff who work on the Douglas Bader unit.

[Wander00]

GR - Thanks - had not realised there are two Stanford Halls in the same area.

[MaroonMan4]

Oh deary deary me,

I was only joking when I was bantering Melchy in this thread a few months ago about the hypothetical closure of Headley Court after the closure of Peterborough.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/540343-really-news-just-more-corporate-spin.html

Another piece of salami slicing? Part of a Grand Strategic plan for a medical 'super base'? Another way for the MoD to help the NHS out (or vice versa)?

Irrespective this really does suggest to the layman a complete incompetence in any planning. If this was always the intent then why were we as the bucket rattlers, charity walkers, riders and swimmers and the donating public not made aware that the H4H (plus other mil charities) projects at Headley Court would be closed within a few years of being put to good use?

I trust that there will be an independent audit called by the Trustees to establish exactly how much charity money will have been wasted in not having a robust plan post Afghan.

To us Serving Personnel I personally believe that this is just another example of exactly what the current HMG intend to do with the 'peace dividends' from an Afghan withdrawl. Standby for more snippets here and there of cut backs to the military being 'leaked' into the media.

Only when one stands back and views the sum of capabilities either lost or watered down will the true impact be recognised.

Now, sadly it really wouldn't surprise me to see RCDM at QE Birmingham also close, after the painful and very public transition from Selly Oak that played on the minds of many Service Personnel on Ops knowing that the media were reporting a dysfunctional casualty/medical evacuation system for injured personnel.

Just as we get our casualty system right at QE Birmingham I sense they will close it, for us to re-learn all those horrid lessons from Iraq and the early Afghan years again.

Certainly made me think about where my money goes with Military Charities!

[NutLoose]

The thing that gets me about it all is the new facility is going to cost £300 million met from donations.....
Just imagine what Headley Court could have done with the £300 million if they stayed put!
It would have been the icing on the cake to have those funds available to them.

Certainly made me think about where my money goes with Military Charities!

I must agree, it makes me wary of ever donating again.. £8,000,000 for a pool that will be redundant in a couple of years and a lot of equipment is a lot of dedicated tin rattlers free time and public donations wasted... That is why I hoped the NHS or similar could use the facilities.

[FAStoat]

When was Nocton Hall in Lincolnshire closed down??I hear it is pretty derelict now!!??

[Wander00]

ISTR HC was pretty tightly constrained by its site, which will not apply at the new place. However, I seriously worry at the loss of assets, many donated, as a result of the move.

[4fitter]

MaroonMan4 - I do not believe that the media were reporting a dysfunctional evacuation system - it was and is excellent - but that there were issues surrounding care at Selly Oak. The transition to QE11 was never a problem and has been an outstanding example of collaborative working. The issue was, and I must admit to have been part of the system at the time, a question of corporate denial, guilt and using the medics as an easy bashing board. The Army G1/4 system could not cope and their CoC were writing cheques they could not cash. H4H was borne from a dinner party following a spurious conversation between CGS and OC Headley Court, who sadly did not survive first contact. My diaries of the shenanigans at the time are quite clear and comprehensive and I feel strongly that as time goes by, decent and honourable individuals will be maligned; I will defend where appropriate.

[MaroonMan4]

4fitter,

Please do not think for one moment that I was having a pop at those involved with Selly Oak, but as someone that was out in Afghan in 06 the confidence in the medevac system was low. As you know between 06 and about 09 the summer offensives saw a significant number of casualties deposited back in UK by a rapidly developing MERT and Aeromed only to have issues with numbers of beds and correctly trained/experienced staff to treat them.

This resulted in military patients either ending up on inappropriate wards or in really remote hospitals all around the UK with absolutely no facilities for family, whom had to initially pay accommodation costs in places where the NHS had spare beds.

What we have in RCDM is superb with a miltary ward in a very shiney new hospital that has learnt all of the harsh lessons during a very kinetic conflict.

My point is that hypothetically on paper now that Afghan is a distant memory for many to close RCDM and all of that corporate knowledge accrued between Military and NHS staff alike.

It took us nearly 10 years to get it right with Iraq and Afghan, and my fear is that we will take the same amount of time, heart ache and cost to re-learn those lessons for the campaigns around the corner.

As with everything in the military, Selly Oak's issues came from the misguided belief that 'just enough, just in time' would work for military patients. And we cannot blame the NHS either as allegedly we the military promise to staff NHS wards with military medical specialists only to see them rapidly re-deployed in time of conflict or manning pinch points occur. This resulted in much mistrust between the NHS and the military that I believe RCDM and QE Birmingham have resolved and proven to work over the years.

[4fitter]

MaroonMan4
Thank you for your considered and experienced response - I too was there doing it and moaning about it.

I'm afraid that the very high level politics influence/affect normal military judgement.

I hope you and your kin are well.

[OvertHawk]

FAStoat - Nocton closed early to mid 80's - 1983 i think

OH

[Al R]

Headley, fabulous place. One of the, if not THE only place I experienced in my 20 or so years that when the staff said you were #1, you really were #1. Being able to hobble back one summer's morning at 0300 from the local town and arriving soaked with sweat at 0530 made me realise it was worth its weight in gold. It's too difficult to get to though.. too expensive to maintain, too.. 'evolved'?

I always thought that somewhere like Bicester offered potential in terms of location. Not just as somewhere for rehab, but as a Defence Rehab and Resettlement centre. I don't imagine that anyone being rehab'd would mind being within a military environs (a country house - great, but a little bit dislocating maybe? No pun intended) where the surroundings, architecture, layout, ambience are all familiar. Hangers are perfectly suited for rehab and offering training courses, and the real estate offers the chance to be beasted back to fitness in safety. It would allow residents and patients somewhere to organise and stage events, and prove their worth and self worth if need be, without simply casting off thise who need our help the most. I have experience of a homeless shelter in Peterborough, I know how many current homeless and sofa surfers once had a 1250/90.

MQs would allow families to stay nearby to offer support, and offer a halfway nursery for those wanting to be eased back into independent living safely. Somewhere big and with resources already in place also offers the chance for the most vulnerable to be housed and cared for safely, it's a fine line - suffocating and 'freeing' those who we have required to be injured. The objectives (as I see them) are to serve those in a way that considers their emotional and physical needs and the needs of their loved ones, and also engenders within the injured, a sense that we rightly single them out for special treatment because they are special people and deserve something special.

I think the nation and the staff too, also need to know they are facilitating something in return, discharging a debt and being part of something special - the value of something is far more important than the price of it. In that way do we perpetuate the importance of military sacrifice, by allowing us to articulate our gratitude in a way that places these injured men and women above and beyond 'just' civvies. Done badly, that really would be a humiliating and inconsiderate kick in the teeth. Balanced against that, just as our fallen have been helped by the NHS which can be world beating, and just as our medical services have fused into the NHS and offered them so much in return, is fusion (in principle at least) automatically a bad thing?

[Finnpog]

Wanderer.
The Lutterworth one whete they do car club rallies and fireworks events is Stamford Hall with a Mike, as opposed to Stanford Hall with a November north of Loughborough.

[Wander00]

Finnpog - regret not - both are "Stanford" - Stanford Hall, Luxury Accommodation and Private Party Venue (http://stanfordhall.co.uk/)

[MaroonMan4]

4fitter,

Fortunately no personal experience for me, but as you know we work pretty closely with the guys down the back, both during pre-deployment and on Ops so get a pretty good insight into the medical world and what is going through their minds.

And also a fair few books written by those on the ground in the early years of HERRICK passed comment on their personal lack of confidence in the pre-QE Birmingham era, not helped by the usual sensationalist headline grabbing tabloids et al (but there was no smoke without fire I believe).

And my kin are well thanks - last one through Uni so that's me home and dry (well I can kid myself!)

[blaireau]

I spent 4 great weeks in Headley Court during summer '64 after an accident on the South Cerney assault course. ISTR Each Wednesday evening was a run up to London to see a show or similar.
The fittest I have ever been. Happy days.