C210 crash reported Inverell NSW

[TTY]

1315hrs emergency services on their way to Inverell airport to report of C210 crashed at sothern end of runway , reported on fire, 3pob.Early reports 2 with bad burns.

[wishiwasupthere]

There's a 210 listed on flightaware as a scheduled departure from YIVL at about that time :uhoh:

[TTY]

Yes that is the one, all three out 2 with burns 1x 70% 3rd no mention of injuries but transported to hospital. Air ambulance retreavel teams just arriving at Inverell hospital now 16.00

[TTY]

some pictures here,
Tamworth News, sport and weather | The Northern Daily Leader (http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/)

[VH-XXX]

70% is almost unsurvivable and usually ends badly. What a shocker.

[BlatantLiar]

VH-XXX you have some sick perverted fetish for death and suffering. Do sirens turn you on?? Get a grip and leave your morbid comments, accurate nor factual to yourself. Think of the families who'll read this!

Geez man, calm your farm, that didnt warrant such a reaction. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows.

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 15

Trying to be all compassionate with your internet policemans uniform on to get your post count up?

[VH-XXX]

Take it easy Cobber.

I don't even recall editing anything and no I am not perverted about death. I can't believe I'm even writing this.

I was merely eluding to how bad burns really are and I apologise for stating the obvious.

[nitpicker330]

I didn't see anything wrong with your comments.

[rotorblades]

Massive overreaction,
I'm sure most of the families aren't getting their medical updates from pprune
As to survivability it will depend on whether they are first, second or third degree burns..most people can survive second degree burns to upto 70% but if third degree burns generally 50% is seen as the crucial figure...

[sms777]

XXX's comment is valid in my book. He may be more experienced in medical science than you would think so I do appreciate his input. I would be very interested also how survivable this accident was. I do hope the people involved will recover.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I thought everyone knew XXX was our resident crash truck chaser! :ok:

[Flanker978]

Engine failure after take off perhaps?
Not a lot of options coming off Rwy 16 YIVL.

[VH-XXX]

The local Doctor, his wife and 18 yr old daughter. Seems his wife is critical. You don't expect a 210 to give in, they are a workhorse and a half.

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au (http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/inverell-plane-crash-three-injured-as-aircraft-comes-down-near-airport/story-fni0cx12-1226977826299?nk=4ad15671c84a2be7d67de613c79a9fbf)

Thanks FTDK.

[Pinky the pilot]

I saw nothing wrong with VH-XXX`s comment either. And from what I remember a Medico once telling me, it is fairly accurate given rotorblades` qualification.

[Jabawocky]

Almost from the horses mouth, having spoken to a good friend who was there just as it all unfolded, and his wife works with the Dr and has been involved in the hospital care etc.

Dr is not in a great way but could be worse. At least conscious and will recover although not nicely.

His wife will be lucky to survive, is very badly burned and is as you can predict.

12 year old daughter is hardly hurt at all, small burn and a abrasions and nothing obvious else except to say she wants to dive to Sydney as she does not want to fly with my friends, or RPT or in the Ambo King Air.

If and when I get facts that I can post I will do my best. This post is possibly a bit sketchy given the emotion involved in telling me.

[nitpicker330]

I wish them all the best for a speedy recovery.

[Stanwell]

Thanks Jaba.
My prayers for all concerned.

[Avgas172]

Rwy 16 at Inverell is very unforgiving after takeoff, heavily forested with few options in the event of an efato and often has a tailwind component after clearing the treetops at the southern end. My wife worked with the good doc in the Inverell hospital ED before we came north, he will be very hard to replace in the community if this has an ongoing effect. Our best wishes for a full recovery for himself and his lovely wife and for the greater community of Inverell :{

[Lancair70]

Agree with the above post. IVL Rwy16 scares me due to the trees everywhere and I've only been there a handful of times.

News reports indicate the wife has passed away. Condolences to the family and Inverell community.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Investigation Number allocated....

Investigation: AO-2014-119 - Collision with terrain involving Cessna T210N, VH-ZFW, Inverell Airport, NSW on 4 July 2014 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2014/aair/ao-2014-119.aspx)

Another sad day in GA

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Tragic event. Hope we find out what happened!

Dr

[Hempy]

Investigation Number allocated....

...atsb.gov.au...

phhht. Do you reckon they'll actually turn up this time or just do a ring-around as per common practice these days :rolleyes:

[meggo]

So absolutely sorry for your loss. A Mum can never be replaced. RIP Mummy

[Jenna Talia]

From the ATSB website:

The ATSB is deploying four investigators to the site, with specialisations in engineering and aircraft operations. During the on-site phase of the investigation, investigators will examine the wreckage and accident site, interview witnesses and collect maintenance and pilot records. Some aircraft components may be retained for subsequent technical examination.

Where does it imply they won't attend?

[Hempy]

Its implied in the 'investigation' of the last 210 that went down :rolleyes:

[TTY]

"The ATSB is deploying four investigators to the site"
They arrived on site testerday afternoon (07-07-14)

[spinex]

That makes 2 recent ones at the lighter end of town, where they have launched full investigations. (The Barossa Tecnam is the other) Maybe some of the recent criticism has stung a little?

[Desert Flower]

It is my understanding they will attend if there has been a fatality - but not otherwise.

DF.

[spinex]

Makes sense DF, although I understand they have taken over the recent Chipmunk investigation despite no fatality having occurred and (so far) seem to be leaving the Batemans Bay Morgan in RA-Aus and the coroner's hands.

[outnabout]

Just caught up with this one.




In my experience, some 210N models have the fuel tanks selected on BOTH when the selector points to the prop. However, other 210N have the fuel tanks selected to OFF when the selector points to the prop. A very nasty little trap for young players, or pilots in a rush, and one I have very nearly been caught by.


I note the time of accident was mid-day-ish, and I understand in a C210 it's only about a 90 minute flight from Inverell to Brisbane (which I think I read is where it was headed).




Somewhere, I think I read that the owner had only had the aircraft since Sept 2012 but I don't know how much experience the pilot had on type.
Could it be - and this is pure speculation - in the background was....Please, Dr, just before you leave can you please just check on .......Honey, we need to get going. Don't forget I've arranged to meet X & Y at 5, and you wanted to see Bill Bloggs at 4......D-a-a-a-d, you PROMISED I could....


A terrible tragedy, whichever way we look at it.

[Jabawocky]

outna

Sadly the cause was even simpler than the one you describe. No problem at all with fuel or engine or anything not working.

I am not at liberty to discuss it (or I dnot know if I am ) so lets just say it was a stuff up. :{

Gimme a call……and keep off the red ;) It is bad for ya that stuff! :}

[Pinky the pilot]

and keep off the red It is bad for ya that stuff!

Jaba; Blasphemy!!!:=:=:D

[Arnold E]

and keep off the red It is bad for ya that stuff!

Quite simply, rubbish.:E

[Jabawocky]

Sounds like you blokes know outnabout well :}

Arnold and funnier than fiction he/she is from down your way and you may well know said grape juice appreciator!

Jaba ducks for cover......

[Pinky the pilot]

Jaba; Should this Barossa born and raised boy and you ever meet, I shall edjumacate you to the enjoyment of a good Aussie Red!

Und you vill enjoy!! Ja!!:ok:

Like my dear Late Mother, who died only a year ago once said, when I had made a remark about the Barossa;
`You can take the boy out of the Barossa, but you cannot take the Barossa out of the boy!`

Arnold E; You are more direct than I, but quite correct!

[Jabawocky]

I am doing some preschool training g as we speak...:-)

[gerry111]

Come on Jaba.. So what really happened with the C210?

Pinky. FYI, I'm enjoying a rather pleasantly affordable Barossa Shiraz as I type.

We must have dinner again, one of these days. And at the Truro pub. Like we often did all those years ago! :ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

We must have dinner again, one of these days. And at the Truro pub. Like we often did all those years ago!

Agreed!:ok: Cannot see any difficulty in talking your Brother and a few others of that era into it either.:D

[Jack Ranga]

Jaba; Should this Barossa born and raised boy and you ever meet, I shall edjumacate you to the enjoyment of a good Aussie Red!

The bastard doesn't need any educating on that front :ugh:

[sms777]

Damn it guys! I love my red too ever since I have been reading Pinky's posts.
So.....what happened? :{

[Pinky the pilot]

The bastard doesn't need any educating on that front

Who cares?:E Any excuse to open a bottle of a good Aussie red is acceptable.:ok:

gerry111 knows me too well on the subject of bottles of red!:ok::E

[outnabout]

Jaba - may I remind you of glass houses, stones, and the in advisability of throwing? It is after all an offence of STRICT liability and penalties may apply:}

[OpsNormal]

So.....what happened?

Please folks take Jaba's lead as it would be far better to wait for the ATSB to do their thing and finish their report rather than to play it out here first. Suffice to say there is a well loved and respected father and husband who will live the rest of his days revisiting the event over and over again as he learns to deal with the loss of his beloved wife and what else could have happened. He blames himself. For his and his family's sake just please let it sit until the report is published.

[Pinky the pilot]

Suffice to say there is a well loved and respected father and husband who will live the rest of his days revisiting the event over and over again as he learns to deal with the loss of his beloved wife and what else could have happened. He blames himself. For his and his family's sake just please let it sit until the report is published.

Roger that. Last line of my previous post withdrawn.

[Cloudee]

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2014/aair/ao-2014-119/

[Band a Lot]

Why did engine not respond? Oil cap left off is not the first time.

[gerry111]

Band a Lot,


I'm guessing that you are a LAME?


Let's imagine a situation whereby the oil filler cap was left off. Then the engine was started, warmed up and the run up checks completed. After rolling with revs for take off and fuel flow normal, wouldn't the oil pressure gauge identify the cap being off?

[outlandishoutlanding]

it might be tempting to do a downwind departure, but if something goes wrong you sure wish you had those runway metres back.

[Desert Flower]

it might be tempting to do a downwind departure, but if something goes wrong you sure wish you had those runway metres back.

Ditto with intersection departures!

DF.

[gerry111]

One for the APS guys..


"Precise Flight speedbrakes were installed on the aircraft to reduce shock engine cooling and allow for accelerated descents without decreasing engine power."

[Lead Balloon]

Precise Flight speedbrakes were installed on the aircraft to reduce shock engine cooling and allow for accelerated descents without decreasing engine power.I can't speak for the APS guys, but can say I have a set of those, plus a set of intake plugs that automatically block the intakes if I fly into rain. If accelerated descents create shock cooling, imagine what happens if you fly into rain! :ooh:

Along with the Turbo Encabulator to scavenge lead while I'm idling the engine for 5 minutes to cool the turbo, I've purchased just about every useless piece of expensive crap to deal with just about every non-existent problem imaginable!

[rutan around]

Let's imagine a situation whereby the oil filler cap was left off. Then the engine was started, warmed up and the run up checks completed. After rolling with revs for take off and fuel flow normal, wouldn't the oil pressure gauge identify the cap being off? Unlike some of the posters here I haven't started on the good Red at this hour of the morning so this is a serious post.
My experience occurred in a C210 and given that the engine compartment in pretty much all of them is the same I reckon their reaction to an oil cap left off would be similar to my experience.
Usual story - rush ,tear bust to get going. Luggage to deal with, oil to be topped , oily funnel to be wrapped and stowed before replacing the oil cap because it was a dirt strip and windy so the funnel couldn't be put on the ground. Distracted by sendoff people while walking to finish the job and then quickly shut the top cowl door AND totally forgot the cap.

All was normal through start up and 1,000 m backtrack and mag and prop checks ( done on the backtrack to protect the prop on the stony dirt strip. All was normal on the take off roll and then I rotated. Almost immediately the wind screen began to be covered in oil. After the initial shock I guessed what the problem was and lowered the nose as much as I could. I climbed to a dizzy height of 300 feet and reduced power and speed as much as I dared. I found a small piece of the screen not completely covered in oil and completed the circuit.

After stopping I found that indeed the cap was off and was hanging from its' chain. Although there was a #*&%!% awful mess I had only lost about 1 litre of oil. In an hour or so enough oil had been cleaned up to be able to fly. The rest made its' way out over the next 2 years but on the positive side I never had cowl corrosion problems over that time. :E
I can't say what caused the oil to cover the screen on rotation. Possibilities that come to mind are:- change of sump angle or change of air flow over the open filler pipe causing suction there or there was an oil build up the whole time and the climb airflow redirected it to the windscreen. Whatever, the shortest, lowest, slowest flight possible still seems like the second best choice.

The best one would have been to not leave the cap off in the first place.

[Jabawocky]

I am about to read this report. I did not know the victims but friends of the victims. So it is with some interest I have to say that the early comments suggest what we knew.

As for shock cooling and speed brakes……..OMFG where do these ATSB folk get this drivel? Surely the days of OWT's like those from the Whyalla report are behind us? Ohhh no….silly Jaba, of course not.

[Jabawocky]

Seems a straight forward report on things that the pilot and witnesses provided.

I do have a cynical view of this though

The Cessna T210N pilot’s operating handbook advised pilots to check the engine oil level during a pre-flight inspection but not the security of the separate oil filler cap.

[Car RAMROD]

Do our regulations not say that the PIC is responsible for ensuring all oil and fuel filler caps are secure before departure?

Cannot comment on the 210 manual though.

[spinex]

Further to Jaba's point and quote, although I have been known to refer to a paper checklist in the aircraft, I've yet to see anyone use one for the external portion of the preflight checks. How adding more verbiage to the POH would assist in preventing this sort of error I don't know.

I'm not sure that I'm quite ready to hang the ATSB from the nearest tree over the speedbrake issue though, I very much suspect they are quoting either the maker's bumf or the pilot. It is a side issue and probably didn't get a great deal of attention once it was determined that they didn't cause the unhappy event.

[megan]

I've yet to see anyone use one for the external portion of the preflight checksRecall the story of a young flight instructor who went into the office to find his student for the next sortie. Was told "He's out at the aircraft". Instructor wandered out to find an elderly gentleman with manual in hand checking and ticking off the pre flight items. Introduced himself to find his student was Charles Lindbergh in for a check.

The manual i have says "check oil filler cap secure" and "check oil dipstick, do not operate with less than nine quarts".

[Band a Lot]

No oil pressure would not show a thing, Yes I am LAME.


IT is oil mist drawn up from the filler port, yes at angle of attack that makes the mess - blow over a open bottle of red and it will whistle a very full bottle on a angle will spill blood.

At first sign close cowl flaps and slow as much as possible, lower nose, that is not in the book - but neither is opps with oil cap off.


It will be bad for engine but not fatal, maybe a top down the track.

[Duck Pilot]

Lots of lessons to be learnt from this tragic accident. Pressures of private flying, especially with kids, wives and mates... I didn't realise how challenging it was until I got out of commercial flying recently. Flew quite a bit years ago before I got my commercial licence with family and mates, however now having experience I must admit that I was very naieve back then given some of the flying that I done, especially over Bass Strait back in the late 80s.

Most flying schools don't address the potential human factors issues that private pilots may be faced once they get their PPL.

[Lead Balloon]

Part 61 and its MOS will fix that, Duck. Chillax. :ok:

[Duck Pilot]

Probably will never be a priority for CASA to fix as GA will be a distant memory very soon based on the propaganda that's splattered around this website by some campaignars,

[gerry111]

Thank you, 'Band a Lot' for your reply.


"No oil pressure would not show a thing, Yes I am LAME."


All the more reason for us to make sure that our oil caps are secure..

[rutan around]

Band a Lot
When you said

It will be bad for engine but not fatal, maybe a top down the trackDo you mean 'bad' if all the oil is sucked out and the oil pressure drops or 'bad' even if only say half the oil is lost but the engine retains oil pressure ?

[Duck Pilot]

Nothing disappoints me more to read these tragic reports. We as pilots must support one another.

I really hope the pilot involved in this accident can get over the grievences of this tragic event. Who's at fault in relation to this accident, it's not the pilot, it's the aviation community; CASA, flying schools, ATOs and the general industry. We must look after one another, even if we don't know each other. If you witness a potential hazard, speak up even if you feel that you may be considered as a fool - you may prevent an accident.

[Band a Lot]

I have had a 210 come in (dipstick broken thin strip/handle separation) it had about 3 quarts in it and operated fine and did TBO. I suspect it was way below 10 qts for many many hrs of flight.

I mean shutting the cooling by closing cowl flaps (bad but not fatal).

[Band a Lot]

An on but not fully locked fuel cap will kill all on board a certain helicopter model.

[Duck Pilot]

Years ago when I was an apprentice, I remember seeing a Piper Lance return to our hangar with a **** load of oil on the windscreen/airframe as a result of the filler cap/oil dipstick not being secure. Luckily the pilot worked out what was going on and he was able to safely land. The amount of oil lost wast not significant enough to damage the engine. All we done from memory way to drain and replenish the oil and wash the engine and airframe.