HOVERING DURING HOIST OPERATION

[GRIFO1978]

I would like to know what type of tecnique you are used to operate for manteining a perfect hover during hoist operation.
Normally I am used to watch in front of me and sideways (right) of about 45 degrees.

[paco]

I use a point on the horizon

Phil

[tottigol]

Day or night, Grifo?

[GRIFO1978]

Is it possible for you to have a good hover using only one point?

[GRIFO1978]

Daily operations

[stilllearning]

off shore or mountain rescue ??

[GRIFO1978]

Mountain or generic field operations

[Thomas coupling]

Single or double engine :E

[Lonewolf_50]

TC is being a naughty boy today. := :}

Suggestion: two reference points: one lateral, one in front.

[Boudreaux Bob]

"One" reference looking straight down as in long lining.:E

[GRIFO1978]

Three engines or more:cool:

[vaibronco]

a point in the horizon? :eek:

[stilllearning]

This is my 14 year experience in mountain rescue: if you have a good reference near the cockpit point of view you don't need more than that. In case you are way above any reference around you, best thing is to have a good situational awareness changing references and not staring at the same stone, branch, tree, ....all the time. Trust your hoist man in case you are not sure if you are doing a good hover, but you have to find out what best fits you to do the job ...enjoy it while you can !!!

[maeroda]

my two cents,
assuming no vertical reference can be made,

Mountain SAR winching: I used 2 points while flying 412's and 139's winching people from cliff faces, one @ the rotor tip path intersection, one @2 o'clock down between the instrument panel and the door post. Eventually if winching above obstacles I normally pick up two references points down near the door post.
Sea SAR winching: flying the 139 my eyes go continuously through a 3 points scanning, one @ the white sea spray, one @ the vessel superstructure that moves up and down in relation the the fixed horizon, one @ the radalt.

Cheers

[GRIFO1978]

Today I have performed an hoist training session in a mountain enviroment. I think to have understood what problem I had two days ago:the reference point(s). This morning, while I was manteining my helicopter in hovering condition, I have.found two rocks. I have kept these two rocks between the clock and the map tab (412). The helicopter was fixed in the rescue point!great!!!

[maeroda]

How high was the training done?

[GRIFO1978]

How high was the training done?
50/75 feet about at 6000 feet on qnh

[maeroda]

that's not much high indeed....but go on kid...keep practicing!!:ok:

(target to proficiency is 73 meters winch cable @ 12.000 ft MSL) ;-)

[GRIFO1978]

that's not much high indeed....but go on kid...keep practicing!!:ok:

(target to proficiency is 73 meters winch cable @ 12.000 ft MSL) ;-)
Yes I know...but one mile begins with one footstep;)

[Self loading bear]

Grifo

Some study material.
Keep up the spirit.

link to Seattle heli rescue (http://q13fox.com/2014/07/03/watch-incredible-video-of-helicopter-team-rescuing-hiker-from-side-of-cliff/#axzz36WTqBIti)

http://vimeo.com/99771689

SLB

[whoofi]

Do you use a winch operator?

If so.....always trust their indications........and if you have a rear view mirror....try to adjust it to look strait down at the winch point

Always (in my vast experience.....;-)....) use a reference in the front of the helicopter to keep the nose quiet and a lateral reference. If you have a radar altimeter...that will be a great aid.

And you´ll need 8 pairs of eyes , 6 pairs of hands, an helicopter with automatic hoover and all the help you can get from the Big boss upstairs.

And if the co-pilot is flying....you´re done.......

[maeroda]

Sorry mate,
I don't think looking in the mirror (if installed) is a good idea if in the meanwhile I'm using a winch operator as source of primary position informations.
There's a lapse in when the informations come to the pilot from down the bottom of the hook via the helicopter motion and winch operator patter.
The pilot knows that, the winch operator knows that, the winchman knows that either.
On the other side looking directly down through a mirror is a source of direct informations in which the only lapse is coming from the relationship between the load and the helicopter and the cable length, so no patter and speech lapse involved here. Which can be good when performing single pilot sling load operations.
Winching is more MCC related matter. I tried to have mirror habits and winch operator patter merged together, believing it was a safety improvement but I **** up things.
Much more better to leave the mirror or vertical reference habits out of there while winching people down and up a cliff.

Radalt: for winching that's ok on sea to keep heigh references in a basically no-references environment, useless in mountains where I have more references I need.
My opinion

[hueyracer]

Geez….you guys are making rocket science out of everything, aren´t you?

Hover the helicopter, pick your reference-and hold your spot.

As easy as this.

Thousands of pilots are doing this every day-in EMS, in SAR, in long line operations, in utility and construction work….its easy.

All it takes is a good instructor-and practice, practice, practice…

Start looking cross-side (e.g. when i instruct, i fly left seat and pick my reference on the right side-this way i can cross-reference the instrument panel AND keep my reference).

Triangulate if possible-if you only have one reference point, then use that.

[John Eacott]

Grifo

Some study material.
Keep up the spirit.

link to Seattle heli rescue (http://q13fox.com/2014/07/03/watch-incredible-video-of-helicopter-team-rescuing-hiker-from-side-of-cliff/#axzz36WTqBIti)

http://vimeo.com/99771689

SLB

Neat bit of winching, I like the little extras such as the safety strop being clipped onto the harness as the winch comes up to the cabin.

It was featured on Channel 9 News this evening in Melbourne, Australia: the power of the modern news media :ok:


Back to the OP, I think we're over-egging the pudding. Hovering should be helicopter flying 101, and the reference for your hover varies with the circumstances. There is no 'one size fits all' and you can have everything from watching a rock 6' from the blade tips, to looking between the horizon and the downwash when positioning over spot in the ocean.

[maeroda]

Is not rocket science definitely buddy:ok:....is only toughest to explain than to do it. :}

[Faithless]

Simplez.....Hold steady as you can and listen to your Crewmen...They will tell where you're going wrong and tell you where to put it:ok:

[enzedong]

it's a feeling,80% look outside and move to your radio Alt every few seconds,fly more you will be feel better.in the night ops is another story,you need look your hover mode on HSI and RA at most of time.