Trip to Hungary in C182

[Willy44]

I am planning a trip from Midlands to Hungary this year in a C182. How difficult is it getting clearances from France into Germany?



From UK- LYD, France BNE, CMB, Villerupt LFAW, GTQ, KRH & on to LHUD
The part of the trip I am concerned about is Villerupt LFAW to KRH, how easy is it getting the clearance in this area? Anyone have experience & advice?


What Airfields dose anyone one recommend in the KRH area? Refuel & possible overnight stop

[Jan Olieslagers]

Far easier than between UK and FR ...

But I have a question/doubt about your general planning: did you intend to make Villerupt LFAW your first landing on the continent? That is not going to work: you need to land at a field with immigration (also but incorrectly known as a "customs field"). Villerupt is certainly not one of those, and indeed it seems you cannot land there at all : "AD reserved for home based ACFT and ULM, and those based on neighbouring" says the official SIA doc. But perhaps there is a local work-around?

BTW will you be flying IFR or VFR?

[Piper.Classique]

For landing at a restricted use airfield, you first need the airfield operator to agree that you may, then the District Aeronautique. In writing, allow at least two weeks. Easier to go elsewhere unless you really need that particular airfield.

[worldpilot]

Willy44,

Beware of the complexities of rules and procedures when engaging on such a long flight that entails overflying multiple countries with different flight regulations and restrictions. It suffice to say that if you do a good home work and map out the required information and pay attention to the constraints, the difficulties associated with such trips could be contained accordingly.

It would be prudent to get the respective trip kits for the individual countries that you would be overflying. Assuming you would be flying through the airspace of UK, FR, DE, AT, and HU to reach your destination, FR seems to be the most complicated airspace to fly over.

Here are some basic aspects you need to pay attention to.

1. It is mandatory to enter and depart a foreign country from an airport of entry (custom aerodromes - aerodromes with customs clearance).
- Check the aerodrome directory for the respective countries and identify the airport and airfields available to civil air traffic.
- Identify the provisions for aeronautical information services in the individual countries.
- Carefully map out the requirements for operations for aircraft and pilot.

2. Have current navigation charts handy. It would be prudent to also have paper charts though.

3. Always maintain radio communication with appropriate ATC facility.

4. Have all required identification credentials in place (license, medical, personal identification, etc)

In short, be informed before you go on your trip.

WP

[Zulu Alpha]

I went to Hungary 2 years ago.
From Llydd the first stop was Koblenz who can deal with immigration into Germany (also they have a nice restaurant, fuel and are very GA friendly).
Then Karlovy Vary (great hotel near the airfield) then Beckescaba.

SkyDemon allowed us to create a routing that avoided any permissions as sometimes these aren't forthcoming so you have to avoid them anyway. Best to plan this way in the first place and then cut corners if you get permission.

We filed flightplans using SkyDemon and all these airfields had free WiFi for weather NOTAMS and flight plan filing.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Read: Békéscsaba (LHBC) not to play the smart-ass, but to help in searching the www.

Second the positive remark about Koblenz EDRK, surprised though to learn they'd have immigration there. Their own website confirms: "Custums clearance has to be requested at least 2 hours prior to estimated time of departure/arrival." I reckon they too are mixing up "customs" with "immigration" - if not there might be some nasty surprise.

[ChickenHouse]

@Willy: I am missing some more information ...
I assume, but don't know - UK citizen? G-reg plane, part-FCL PPL, no UL?
These information sniplets would be necessary to start thinking the right direction, as all of them imply different approaches.

If part-FCL, G-reg, UK citizen, then clearing the channel will be the most difficult thing you will encounter. Once you are in Schengen area, things should be easier. Flying in Hungary is quite easy, as long as you stay clear of their nuclear plant ... LHUD is nice, but also Pecs, Györ are worth a try. The Hungarian pilots will feed you with information as well, most of them are nice guys!

BUT, you lost me on your route, which airports do you refer?
LYD = Lydd, Kent
BNE = Brisbane? even with a C182 a bit far ...
CMB = Bandaranayake? hmmmm ---
Villerupt LFAW = that sounds familiar ...
GTQ = the waypoint?
KRH = Redhill?
LHUD = aaah, thats Szeged, fine and nice people there
or are you referring to IFR waypoints?

[worldpilot]

If you look at the aerodrome directory of Germany, some specific aerodromes are listed as "Airport of Entry" and Koblenz is not listed as one of those airports. However though, Koblenz is listed as having limited customs service (1hr prior arrival/departure).

If you are enroute via France to Germany, I would recommend Saarbrücken (EDDR) as airport of entry.

WP

[Jan Olieslagers]

@CH: never heard of the thing they call a VOR?
Makes me wonder more than ever whether the plan is to be VFR or IFR.

[worldpilot]

BNE - Boulogne VOR
CMB - Cambrai VOR

And it looks like an IFR flight plan.

WP

[Willy44]

Hi All & thank for the replies, sorry missed out LFQV Charleville Mezieres, this is the 1st stop. Do not intend to stop at Villerupt LFAW, just fly overhead

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, LFQV does seem to be a port of entry, so far so good. Even promise fuel, though only by prior arrangement. Will you manage the R/T in French?

[piperboy84]

Why do we have to bollock about with ports of entry and customs, aren't we all europeans now? If we can't just fly where we want, when we want "free movement" and all that stuff what's the point or the upside of being a member of the EU. Seems like it would be easier to immigrate UK than it would be to bimble over to France in a spam can for a few hours for a cheeseburger.

Rant over, cup of tea and bourbons, deep breaths!

[ChickenHouse]

@Piperboy: yes, we are Europe, BUT travel is governed by Schengen, not Brussels and UK decided to be Europe-nonSchengen ...

[piperboy84]

Chickenhouse

So does that mean that a Belgium or French based pilot can get in his plane and fly too and thru all the other European countries (excluding the UK) without stopping for ports of entry or customs? If so I've just become a screaming Europhile and want a passport with pictures in it of Dagaul or Leopold or whoever they have on the passports that let you fly free.

[Unusual Attitude]

Piperboy, entry to Europe is a non event.

A few weeks back I landed at Le Harve for fuel en route to Spain (having PPR'd and Flight planned there) and whilst doing so couple of chaps casually asked to see my passport and then was on my way again.
On the way back it was even easier, I departed Abbeville, a non customs airport and landed at Bentwaters, again non customs, just by filing a GAR online.

Just file a VFR flight plan any time you cross into or out of France and its easy peasy.

Regards

UA

[Jan Olieslagers]

So does that mean that a Belgium or French based pilot can get in his plane and fly too and thru all the other European countries (excluding the UK) without stopping for ports of entry or customs?Basically yes*. And same for pilots based in Italy, Sweden, Latvia, Czechia, Portugal, &c &c

Some limitations for Switzerland, though - they ARE in Schengen but are NOT in the toll union, a bit the reverse of the UK.

All of which does not reduce my euroscepticism, though.

*except for spelling (too -> to, thru -> through, countries -> airspaces ...)

[piperboy84]

UA: did you have to repeat that when crossing from France to Spain or is it once you are in you are good to go

Jan: re my spelling, are you sure there is an "O" in countries

[Jodelman]

So does that mean that a Belgium or French based pilot can get in his plane and fly too and thru all the other European countries (excluding the UK) without stopping for ports of entry or customs?


Basically yes. But they still have to file flight plans when crossing a border (with a very few exceptions).

[Unusual Attitude]

Piperboy, the French require that you file a flight plan when crossing their border in any direction which must also contain your FIR crossing point and estimate. In my case going from and to the UK my FIR crossing point was DEVAL.

Once in Spain it gets worse as every flight, even VFR, requires a flight plan to be filed! Dead easy though and once at San Sebastián I just wrote 'DCT LEDA' as my route!

Regards

UA

[Steve6443]

So does that mean that a Belgium or French based pilot can get in his plane and fly too and thru all the other European countries (excluding the UK) without stopping for ports of entry or customs? If so I've just become a screaming Europhile and want a passport with pictures in it of Dagaul or Leopold or whoever they have on the passports that let you fly free.

There are other exceptions - for example Croatia. This is another European non-Shengen country and the Italians are very suspicious of general aviators coming in from there - last month I flew to Dubrovnik, no issues with passport control on the way there. On the way back I filed a flight plan in order to stop for a few days at Lido de Venezia (LIPV). On arrival I was greeted by two members of the police and two officials from the finance ministry.

The policemen proceeded to copy down all the details from my passport - manually, no photocopying, including all entry stamps I had in it - whilst the officers from the finance ministry went through my baggage and even examined the contents of my wallet - good job they weren't allergic to the moths in there, surprises me they haven't cottoned on to how terminably broke this hobby of ours causes us to become....

Either way, half an hour later they departed, allowing me to proceed. However I couldn't help think that everything was just a complete waste of time - the piece of paper, upon which the policemen had lovingly copied all my passport details onto, was found in a bin and the officials from the finance ministry never went near the aircraft; if I was smuggling, then why not just leave it stashed in the aircraft and go back later? Better would have been to fly to Portoroz (Slovenia - part of Shengen), clear immigration there and then hop across to Venice without requiring to present myself to the italian bureaucracy.

Oh, another exception - Germany to Austria (and vice versa) doesn't require flight plans to be filed, however I file them so that R/T is easier - saying "via flightplan" is so much easier than spouting your routing. Again, the Italian way was "different" - submitted Flight Plan with routing back to Germany via the Brenner, noting the VFR routing points around Venice and Padova but even so, the Italian ATC still wanted my next waypoints.... seems that flightplans aren't so well disributed there....