EC145 now a new type rating from the BK117 C-1??!!

[Radman117]

Hi all,

I have heard a rumour that as of May 2014 the EC145 (BK117 C-2) is now a totally separate type rating from the BK117 C-1.

This means that a whole new type rating has to be done from the older model (BK117 C-1) to the newer model (BK117 C-2). 6 - 8 hours!! This is barking!!

Has anyone seen any instruction / information from the CAA regarding this matter?

[CYHeli]

Since you are from Australia, I assume that you mean CASA, not CAA. If that is the case, look for the helicopter type rating link on this page. (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101913). This info is relevant after the 1st Sept 2014.
Until then the current CAO (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C00163/Html/Text#_Toc325532966) is the applicable piece of legislation.
If your question relates to overseas, I'm sorry, can't help.

[Radman117]

Apologies, I should have put EASA.

[RVDT]

Ever thought that CASA may be behind the 8 ball? And ever thought you just might be the one who is barking. :D

It should always have been. Have you ever seen a C2?

Would you let a C2 pilot fly a C1? Huge amount of differences.

Airbus Helicopters Deutschland GmbH Type Rating BK117 = MBB-BK117 A1, A3, A4, B1, B2 & C1.

Airbus Helicopters Deutschland GmbH Type Rating EC145 (BK117) = MBB-BK117 C2, C2e, D2.

I know that AHD and EASA are struggling over whether the T2 (D2) will not be a different type again due to differences.

C1 with throttles on the roof and steam gauges

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1031/937683453_ccabfa1b75_z.jpg?zz=1

EC145 (BK117 C2) with twist grips VARTOMS and VEMD

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/6/5/1066567.jpg

And lets not include the T2 (BK117 D2) FADEC as well?

http://www.bjtonline.com/sites/default/files/galleries/4_ec145-t2_corp_21_-1.jpg

[Radman117]

RVDT,

Thank you for reply. Most helpful - especially the :D icon.

I have flown both. ICAO licence holder. Done the differences training, not that much different. Prettier to look at inside and yes, no levers on the roof.

EASA have only recently made this recommendation to make the C-2 a different type rating from C-1. The problem is when you want to convert an ICAO licence and type rating you need 350 on type. The BK117 C-1 was until, March of this year, grouped with the C-2.

The additional cost in doing a full conversion course onto the C-2, after doing the differences training and flying it, plus having BK117 listed as a type rating on an ICAO licence entitling the holder to fly both, is simply excessive.

Nice pics though.

[John Eacott]

C1 with throttles on the roof and steam gauges

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1031/937683453_ccabfa1b75_z.jpg?zz=1

That's a familiar panel: my old VH-JGO which is a B2, not a C1 ;)

Not sure whose helmet that is, though....

[RVDT]

Radman,

This has been a struggle with the manufacturer as well.

With the introduction of the T2(D2) and the phasing out of the BK117 EASA and AHD have looked a little closer at the whole thing and came up with the result that they wanted 145(BK117 C2, C2e, D2) in the same pot.

I think you might agree that what they are trying to preclude is BK117 covering the D2 as it may be stretching the point.

EASA Draft OEB Report here (https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/EC145%20%28BK117%29_Family-Draft%20Report_%2029%2004%2014%20-%20draft.pdf).

The problem is when you want to convert an ICAO licence and type rating you need 350 on type.

??????????

[hueyracer]

@RVDT: In the "real" world (where flying helicopters is still a good business, and where most of the "experienced" pilots are coming from-the US of A) there is not even such a thing as a stupid "type rating".
At the end, it is a helicopter is a helicopter is a helicopter…

I have been there, i have flown them-and the TR courses in EASA-countries are (in most cases) pure bull**** to justify a high bill at the end!

Anyway:
Regarding his point:
He intends to convert his ICAO ATPL(H) with IR and the type rating (!) to EASA ATPL(H) IR with BK 117 OR EC145 on his new license.

He already passed the 14 exams, and holds an EASA CPL(H) with no valid ratings.

He wants to convert a type rating (MET)=therefor he needs 350 hours on type (which he has on BK117 and EC145 combined-as in the country he is currently flying in, the BK117 and the EC145 is still ONE AND THE SAME rating)…

He´s got a valid question:
He gained his 350 hours in a time when both helicopter were the same rating in EASA too…..

Can he now choose which helicopter to convert (either BK117 or EC145)?
Or does the UK CAA "force" him to start collecting all hours (350) again just because some desk jockey decided that it makes a difference whether the throttles are up on the roof or down on the collective?

[ersa]

Just spoke to the caa uk, I'm in a similar position , bk117 and ec145 are seperation type ratings , he will now need 500 hours or a new type rating will need to be done

[hueyracer]

Interesting-where do these 500 hours come from?

CAP 804 does not mention anything about 500 hours requirement…
Only 100 hours (SET or piston) or 350 hours (MET)..