Flak jackets to be issued!!!!

[Capn Rex Havoc]

From the BBC

BBC News - Pakistan plane fired on during Peshawar landing (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28010175)

And from the Aviation Herald-

A PIA Pakistan International Airlines Airbus A310-300, registration AP-BGN performing flight PK-756 from Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) to Peshawar (Pakistan) with 178 passengers and 12 crew, was on short final to Peshawar's runway 35, descending through about 300 feet AGL, when the aircraft was hit by a number of bullets, the bullets penetrating the fuselage belly at the right hand side and entering the cabin. A female passenger was hit in her head and received fatal injuries, the purser received serious injuries when a bullet hit the leg and another flight attendant minor injuries. The crew continued for a safe landing on the runway. Both injured flight attendants are in hospital care.

The airport of Peshawar is currently closed.

Get your new Nav Bag and flak jacket.

A 330 or 777 is even a bigger target. :sad:

[pilotday]

Must have been a big gun. .50 Caliber or more.

Small arms fire (AK47) ricochets off of a fast moving aluminum tube. Looks like scrape marks. Saw it before, not at EK.

[500N]

A flak jacket is not going to stop any bullet larger than a 9mm having put more than a few holes in them
and I doubt they were using those.

Sad all the same. Pak might become an off limits location soon.

[FLEX/MCT]

Wow thanks EK! In addition to shafting us 330 guys with rubbish rosters and career prospects now we get to die for the cause too! :D

[Emma Royds]

No surprise to me...

Why have EK been operating into TIP long after the national carrier and QR stopped flying in long before due to 'security concerns'? To say that TIP is only a turnaround (MLA-TIP-DXB) is a 5hite excuse since what do you do in the event of a tech aircraft? The fact that artillery has landed within the airport perimeter in the past few months, would be fairly compelling in its own right.

If there is a buck to be made then EK will be there and especially so, when there are plenty of wealthy Libyans who are willing to pay to sit in in J and F.

[ROTORTREE]

Actually today's vest will stop a lot more than 9 mm. However they are designed for front or rearwards shots. When airborne I suggest you don't wear it but sit on it to protect the crown jewels from upward coming rounds!!!!!:ooh:

[Dubaian]

In the main forum

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/542356-aircraft-hit-gun-fire-before-landing-peshawar.html

Suggest mods might want to merge / lock one or other....

[flydive1]

Suggest mods might want to merge / lock one or other....

No, the other one is to discuss about the news, this one is for EK pilots to whine;)

[pilotday]

Do I have to wear the company issued flak jacket or may I provide my own?

[hifly787]

If it helps I suggest you guys buy Iron Man suits !

[Simplythebeast]

7.62 rounds would easily penetrate the aircraft at 300ft pilotday.

[Tight Seat]

We used to sit on our 'vests' back in the day when landing in Basrah. Small arms fire is no factor above 1800feet.

All said. I ain't paid enough to die for the company.

[Yossarian]

As the passenger who died apparently suffered a head wound, perhaps you should wear your flak jacket around your head.

[myekppa]

Well, this is a job for SUPERman. Faster than a speeding bullet and all that.

At what point will carriers say these airports are too dangerous? Naturally these lunatics would have achieved their goal if carriers unilaterally stopped serving Pakistan, but the security and capability of their military is woefully inadequate.

I've arranged for my own security.

[Tight Seat]

They will only say 'they' are too dangerous when the yield is too low and money can be made flying into Helmand /Aleppo /Liverpool or other such hellholes .

[scotton]

What about a Kevlar full body condom ?

[crewmeal]

Why have EK been operating into TIP long after the national carrier and QR stopped flying in long before due to 'security concerns'? To say that TIP is only a turnaround (MLA-TIP-DXB) is a 5hite excuse since what do you do in the event of a tech aircraft?

Like anything in this world something will happen before a company does anything about it. It will then be a question of 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' Lessons are learnt after an incident, warnings never heeded.

Look what's happening in Pakistan, Karachi twice, EK banning a politician for basically politically holding an aircraft to ransom and forcing it to divert. Now pot shots at a PIA 310.

[DuneMentat]

Prayers are answered, PEW cancelled ufn

[pilotday]

A 7.62x39 round may penetrate an aluminum tube moving 130 knots 300+ feet away. However highly unlikely, the impact angle and terminal velocity of the bullet at those speeds, distances and angles deflects "ricochets" it away.

The bad guys might get lucky with small arms fire.

Just saying these terrorists have some big guns. Not your standard AK47

What i've seen from personal experience, small arms leave scrape marks on the fuselage.

[plasticmerc]

AK47 will and does go through aircraft aluminum and will go through perspex windows.

Just ask the Vietnamese rice farmer who had flash backs and riddled a biz jet with 7.62 mm rounds.

Also there are many other high powered rifles that will pierce 0.050 thick aluminum. The only thing you can hope is in your favor is the angle of the bullet.

Happy and safe flying.

[Praise Jebus]

I am constantly amazed at the depth of knowledge that my pilot colleagues have over such a range of subjects, from Airline economics to ballistics...all I can do is fly...and badly at that...

[nakbin330]

Not everybody popped out of school into aviation. Something for the youngsters amongst us to keep in mind.

[FLEX/MCT]

A good aviator knows his limitations, something for the oldies amongst us to keep in mind ;)

[nakbin330]

Touché ....

[Dubaian]

Apart from reporting EK stopping their flights, I've seen very little follow up on this on Sky, BBC World and in the Times. News blackout ? Or no reporters will go near the place ?

[Instant Hooligan]

Skip to 9:20 for the 308 round on 3/8 inch hot rolled steel

Ballistic Penetration Testing - YouTube

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Why don't you just take the 380 and sit everyone on the top deck?

[fliion]

What's sad about the PEW case is that the PIA pilots with local knowledge don't even turn on their landing lights on approach...that would have been nice to know as EK pilots.

Here is the Captains quote from an interview:

"Chaudhry said he always turns off the plane’s main lights when landing in Peshawar, a city of 3.5 million people that has been a main battleground in an insurgency that has killed 50,000 people in Pakistan since 2001. The bullets came while the plane was 1,000 feet (300 meters) off the ground, he said.
“Only the lights in the cabin and navigation lights were on, which gave the attackers a fair idea where the plane was,” he said. “We would’ve been sitting ducks if all the main lights of the plane were on.”

The reason EK pulled out of PEW is probably due insurance company's conditions.

I would like to think it had something to do with our welfare...but in light (excuse pun) of the fact that our threat of attack would be mitigated with the advice of not using landing lights...we all know that if there was real concern and proper diligent auditing done on safety measure s for PEW ...then we would have had this info...which of course we did not....too busy working on handbags.

f.

[latetonite]

I was shot at 20 years ago operating an aircraft reg. 9Q-...

Bullet went through the tail-fin, hitting in the 'Q'.

Still do not know if it was them or me being lucky.

[JAARule]

Since EK ops at Peshawar are banned during hours of darkness, using Chowdery's "landing-lights-off" tip won't make a difference.
For a target just look for the big multi-coloured fin shining in first light and aim about 60m ahead of it.

[pilotday]

I'm not sure what we're arguing anymore. I'm just saying these are some big guns the guys are using in Pakistan, not your small arms fire. Very dangerous situation.

I'm fascinated how those old Fords on the farm were moving 130 knots 300 feet in the air?

[500N]

I'm fascinated how those old Fords on the farm were moving 130 knots 300 feet in the air?

The same way you get a tree stump 300 feet in the air ;) :O


Mutley
PM sent and another PM coming soon.

[fliion]

JAARule,

Fair comment in June...however sunrise in December is at 7:20 in PEW, we land at 0700 and many times earlier (turbo wave) during the dark during winter months...been there, done that.

f.

[500N]

Links to the photos

one photo of engine
Initial report of Peshawar airport attack prepared - thenews.com.pk (http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-151846-Initial-report-of-Peshawar-airport-attack-prepared)

multiple photos
History of PIA - Forum :: View topic - PIA Aircraft Hit by Gunfire During Landing at Peshawar (http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22438&hilit=Peshawar&start=30)

[Airmann]

One wonders why they had the cabin lights on. Should have been off.

[Aluminium shuffler]

That was a very unconvincing attempt at a backtrack, pilotday. Small arms like .303 and 7.62 will easily penetrate any part of an airliner, even at 300+ kts - ask any Vietnam veteran pilot. Yes, you're quite right that they also have heavy weapons, but that wasn't your origninal thrust, was it. ;)

[Simplythebeast]

I notice my post in answer to Pilotday was removed.....did I contravene some rule that I wasnt aware of?

[kitesurfingmonkey]

Not sure how close the old boys had to be chasing those old Fokkers ;) but the Supermarine Spitfire was initially fitted with 8x .303 Browning machine guns. :ok: