How many of your CPL classmates are flying 7 years after graduation?

[pilotchute]

It has now been 7 years since I got my CPL. Around 20 people started with me but only about 12 finished and out of those 12, four were foreign students.

So 7 years on and out of the local guys (and girl) who got a CPL one is now a personal trainer, another went back to Uni (after looking for about 3 years for a job). Another is stuck in a job he hates (a flying job mind you) and pretty much apart from me everyone else is an instructor.

The reason I am posting here is because I have been led to believe out of the literally thousands of CPL-IR holders in Europe and many other parts of the world looking for that elusive first job that many again have already given up!

I am trying to gauge how many people are still around 7 years after getting a CPL. I read a statistic saying that less than 30% of people who obtain a CPL will still be involved in the industry (flying or not) after this length of time.

Anybody want to volunteer with some numbers?

[roundsounds]

I'd suggest that should you feel the need to ask the question and have gone to the trouble of itemising the numbers who have already tossed in the towel that you should do the same. Those poor buggers who are only instructors! Imagine that, being paid to train people in an activity they once had such a passion for! I think the industry would be better without people who think the left hand seat of some turbine powered machine with lots of devices to do the job for you is the end goal. I work with lots of people who have achieved that goal and they are no happier. Yet I recently sent a just retired 4 engined jet pilot on his first rag and tube tail dragger solo and he was over the moon. They are the types who should be in this game,they enjoy every phase of their aviation journey no matter how difficult it might seem.

[magicmick]

Hi PC
An interesting thread so I’ll kick off what will hopefully be plenty of feedback with my own experiences.

I qualified from a modular school back in April 2008 so I’ve not quite got the ‘7 year itch’ yet.

Of those that I’m aware of that qualified around this time:

One self funded a TP rating, he has done some ferry work, had a 6 month contract with an airline and got a job with another airline that went bust while he was still line training with them. He keeps his medical and rating in date.

Another is working as an instructor for the school that he did he CPL with, he instructs pretty much everything up to and including MEIR.

Another started as a part time instructor with the same school but he has drifted off, not sure what he’s up to now.

Another started flying an MEP survey aircraft and has progressed onto light TPs now, mostly charter, medevac and air taxi stuff.

Another also started part time instruction but is now flying cargo TPs.

Another was a committed Christian and wanted to fly for MAF but didn’t have the minimum hours requirement so they started flying an SEP for a radio station ‘eye in the sky’ traffic broadcast, not sure if they ever made it into MAF or not.

Another passed the interview and sim check for a well known TP operator and was placed in the hold pool. While swimming in the pool they had to maintain a certain level of flying currency and was spending about £5k per year to achieve this so got a security job to get some money coming in. Last I heard they lost patience swimming in the pool and gave up.

Then there’s me, before I started flying training I was an engineer so I have gone back to a well paid engineering job for now to provide for my family and to allow me to maintain my medical, MEIR and a bit of currency.

I haven’t given up, maybe at the 7 year point I’ll throw my hands in the air and shout ‘:mad: it’ and give up (not likely). The point at which to throw in the towel is very subjective and we’re all different, my own view is that I have put so much time, effort and money into this I won’t go down without a bloody good fight. Right now I can see a few situations which might get me to wrap:

If my wonderful wife were to lose faith and stop encouraging me to continue

If to keep going would threaten the welfare and support of my family.

If I were to suffer illness or injury serious enough to forfeit my medical.

Until then I shall keep going, some very decent people within the industry have been generous enough to offer to keep their eyes and ears open and help me out in any way possible which they don’t have to do and I am extremely grateful for.

[pilotchute]

roundsounds,

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as mocking instructors. I just didn't think they would still be doing it after this much time had passed. They were "shiny jet guys" at the start and wouldn't settle for anything less.

It took me nearly 3 years to get my first flying job and have only had a 6 month flying gap in the last 4 years. I consider myself very lucky as I have a GA job that pays like a jet job.

[bex88]

24 on my course six years ago.

1 did not make it and 5 got back coursed

1 x BA
1 x Cathay Pacific
2 x Lufthansa city line
1 x Emirates
7 x Ryanair
1 x Wizz
5 x Easyjet
5 x Unemployed who have not had any flying job

[PPRuNeUser0173]

This is all very interesting so one more question to add to the original is Would you recommend this business to anyone or would you advise them to steer clear of training to be a pilot?

[EMB-145LR]

Went modular and finished in 2008. Of the six or so guys I'm still in contact with, I'm the only one in an airline. I know one guy is doing ground school instructing. Other than that I think everyone else packed it in and are focusing their energy on different careers.

[AdrienT06]

Is it better to obtain the FI qualification ?

[n.dave]

There was 6 of us at the beginning. 1 couldn't complete the course and the other is a Heli guy so that leaves us 4. We all graduated in 2010.
2 works for Ryanair
1 is a instructor
1 is looking and renewing his ratings (That's me:()

[bex88]

I would recommend the career but please bear in mind i speak having what is widely considered the best airline job in the uk.

I would not however recommend risking everything on it. It could so easily have worked out differently for me and if you are not the very fortunate you are either unemployed or flying under very poor terms and conditions.

[Twinotterguy]

A bit more than 7 years though..
12 of us in a class, still in touch with most of them

2-Me and another friend were lucky to be sponsored by our airline thus we had a job waiting for us.
4- became instructors at the same school, all 4 now are flying for SAA
1- flew sometime in the bushes not sure what he is up to now
2- went back to kenya, 1 flying for kenya airways and the other 777 with EK
2- FO Sri lankan A330/340
1- left the course in-between. no idea about this guy

[speed_alive_rotate]

I presume you are the BA x 1 Bex88 haha!!

[pilotchute]

A fellow pilot told me last night that at his previous company the Operations Manager would put the names of all the pilots who applied with less than the advertised minimums on a XL spreadsheet and if they applied again he would bin them out of spite!

They got dozens of CV's a week emailed to them. It even said on the website that they would only accept pilot CV's when the position was available on the careers page.

For those of you still looking, consider that before you apply for something you have nowhere near the mins for!

[bex88]

Speed alive rotate.......:oh: abort abort

[speed_alive_rotate]

HAHA fair play Bex88!!

[redsnail]

7 years? Well, I finished my ATPL theory in 1994 (already had the CPL etc, Australia's different), of 12, 3 got a jet job. 2 of us ended up shifting to Europe, 1 managed it in Australia. The rest quit.

Of those who I did my CPL training with, no one got a jet job.

[portsharbourflyer]

JS,

When you say you don't recommend this career, may I suggest you give up flying go back and work in an Office you will find within 5 minutes you will wish you were flying again. JS, I have no idea on your background, so the following comment is general not aimed at you, but I find those most dissatisfied with flying are those that went straight into it with out experiencing non flying jobs first.

I worked as a full time instructor had a brief spell on turboprops, when I had to go back to my old career of Engineering, I found been stuck behind a desk for most of the time nothing short of soul destroying, boring and depressing. I have spent the last few years just yearning to be flying full time. No part time instructing doesn't satisfy the flying bug, it is generally exhausting having to work that 6th day of the week, and once you have experienced something that is heavyish with turbines, C152s and PA28s to my mind don't give the same satisfaction.

The old adage fly for fun, sorry the really fun stuff to fly is exceptionally expensive to fly, not justifiable for many even on good salaries.

Just my view. Rationally flying does justify the financial outlay, but once you have experienced it, I don't think you can ever be happy behind a desk again. Nearly all I trained with are now in some kind of full time flying employment, I would add those that funded type ratings at the time are far better off than those that went instructing.

[a320--]

Out of our class finishing in mid 2010 I am the only one employed with an airline out of 13 of us.

1 left during training
1 currently driving trucks
1 night porter in a hotel atm
3 flying light a/c, skydive pilots and private charter
1 went back to previous job
1 just got A320 rated but still unemployed

No update on the other 6 but as far as i know they're not flying.

It's not easy, I got lucky!

Getting the license is the easy part, its what you do after that to find a job is the hard part. 3000 emails, dozens of calls, visits & hand written letters and 3 years later I landed my first airline job.

Get yourself out there, perseverance pays off, be persistent and never give up :)

[777X]

Finished 13 years ago right after 9/11. Seems things are even worse now than back then. Always interesting to look back where people have ended up!

15 or so on my integrated course;

3 quit in first six months of training (think one quit after 2 weeks)
2 went to Thomson B757
2 with BA on B777 (2nd jet job)
1 with Emirates on B777 (4th jet job)
1 now capt at Monarch
1 at Aer Lingus A320
1 did Easyjet for 5ish years, but I believe left flying to raise family
1 helicopter guy
3 unknown but very likely to have secured jobs

Out of the above, the longest taken was just over 4 years to find an airline job. I'm afraid our flying school has since gone bust but was reasonably well regarded back then by the airlines. Depending on where you end up and what equipment you will fly, the flying side can still be enjoyable, but the day to day rubbish we put up with is destroying what could otherwise be a great job.

[stn]

About a year after completion none of us out of twelve on our class has yet landed a flying job.

[Fergal10]

Very interesting stats, thanks to all who have shared.

With no experience of being on the other side of training I am curious as to how these reports compare against the stats boasted by CTC and the likes such as "90%+ being placed with an airline within the first year".

Is this complete and utter BS or are all these stories coming from outside the big 3?

[bex88]

Didcot aviation academy (if you get my drift) count any person who has done any training with them what so ever in their figures. So when you see 150 employed then yes it's true but some of those graduated 4-5 years ago, some may have just done a single module etc but these numbers are offered up against the suggestion that they only train approx 200 integrated pilots a year.

Hell I was counted three times by my reckoning. The simple truth is that getting your qualification is he easy bit and the chance of success is far from certain. There are however some routes with better success rates than others

[Crashlanding]

Finished in 2003, sponsored cadet, of the 19 of us sponsored I was the last to finish but the only one to pass distance learning, 3 others also finished, one had to pay finish.

During the time there I probably met some 20 others non sponsored.

So from close to 39, there are two of us that where sponsored and passed, both of us TP then jet (took a long time Trust me, almost 8 years to fly commercial for me)

Then the sponsored guy that got dropped is flying jets.

And of the 20 non sponsored, 2 where already flying effective military so converting licence both with jobs, and one other who also has a job in the sandpit.

So 6:39 ratio,

[Finals19]

Training completed 2008 at a small (but well known) flying school on the north side of Bournemouth Airport. There were approx 8 guys training during my time there...

2 - (myself and one other) secured job with regional TP operator (after a long wait in a hold pool, but not self funded)
1 - self funded TR with Ryan Air
1 - worked for a sim instruction outfit for a while, then self funded with Wizz
1 - instructed and then self funded with EZY

Three others I have no idea what became of them.

Unless you have considerable drive, commitment and some very strong cash reserves, no I probably wouldn't recommend it as a starting career / career change.

[LastMinuteChanges]

Graduated in 2011 from well-known flight training outfit with approx 16 on my course.

Of the 16, there are only two who are not flying, albeit one is employed within an active role in aviation operations.

[JPFTEJerez]

Can I just ask why you don't recommend a career as a pilot to anyone? Thousands of people dream of someday becoming a pilot but simply can't afford it and I understand that you fly for EZY so I think you're very fortunate to be in that position and I don't doubt that you had that same dream to be a pilot years ago so where did that passion go?

[OhNoCB]

Not recommending the career does not necessarily mean that the passion has gone (although it might!). It's not difficult to convince yourself that you want to be a pilot so much, so much more than anyone else that you WILL have the determination and WILL make it. It's only once you are either in the unfortunate but common position of being qualified and jobless OR whenever you are in the job and can full understand and appreciate the downsides that come with the good bits that you can admit that, while it might be a good career for an individual, it is not what it is often portrayed as by movies, the general population and flight schools.

Now you are looking at risking a massive amount of money to fight/compete with thousands of other hopefuls, most of which will think that they are determined enough and can make it. At the end of training there is not a good chance of gaining employment, there is really a pretty poor chance (although this thread admittedly shows a better rate of those employed than I thought it would, but the fact that a number of posts talk about completing training in a much better financial climate must be considered). Then even if you do get a job, there is a good chance that many would be disappointed if they have not figured out the realities.

[PlanetEarth]

I don't have supertabs of everyone included, but me and some friends tried to find these percentages once.

Of people I know, or are losely aquinted with, we were about 300 people in my flight school over the time I was there.

Of those about 5% quit training before conversion to JAA.
10% don't finish, or are stalling a lot with their JAA (ATPL) conversion

around 20% have any kind of aviation job. From flight instructing to jets. Maybe less than 5% have anything you would consider a "career making job". Quite a few work in airports, checkin, ground handling, cabin crew. A grand majority have given up and are pursuing different careers.

All in all, it's fun how the flight schools always try to paint a rosy picture, but no one ever tells you the statistics. And every time they say "work in aviation", they also include cabin crew, ground staff, anything close to an airport basically.

I would still do it again, but I would do it with my eyes open.

Anyone who asks me, I give them the true story of it, and many of those reconsider everything.

[PilotInPink]

I was in a course of twelve young hopefuls in that did our CPLs in 2009. Half of us are currently flying commercially but none are in a big (or even medium size) airline, though being from New Zealand the path to an airline is much slower/ different:

I'm flying in Africa.
One is instructing at our flight school in NZ.
Two are in Papua New Guinea.
One is in Samoa.
One is in Australia.

As for the others, seems that they gave up looking for a flying job pretty quickly. I doubt any of that six even have their PPL privileges current any more.

Interestingly enough, the ones who are still flying had joined the course having already flown a few lessons, knowing what they were getting into and having dreamed of flying for a long time beforehand. The ones who are still sitting at home with an enormous student loan and no job to show for it, are the ones who seemed to suddenly decide one day that flying a big shiny jet and earning lots of money would be cool and 'maybe I could try that'. My four years of instructing showed the same trend over and over again. I haven't worked it out, but I would guess that less than half of my students have found their first job in aviation.

So would I recommend a career in aviation? Yes and no. For someone who has dreamed of it and has the passion and drive needed, the willingness to move away from home, and the ability to accept that their first job most likely won't be glamorous/ in a jet, then yes. For someone who woke up one day and thought that it would be fun, then no. Do a few lessons, wait a few years, then if it still sounds like a good idea, then perhaps it is?

[faacfilookingforajob]

I can not believe the level of immaturity in some of your answers!!
who in the right mind would suggest a young man to spend all his money in a flight school? with pretty much NO future! just accept the fact you have no job in aviation. Even if you had a job, you would come here to complain.

the harsh reality is:
Every month thousand of new pilots pop out from flight schools with no where to go, banks are banging at their parents' door to get their money back? how they will pay back their 190h of flight experience??

I recommend to stay clear from planes and aviation schools and get a normal life!.At least for a few years.!!!

[PGA]

8 on my integrated course, graduated in 2005, all flying within a couple of months for various operators, but this is as of now:

3 Emirates 777/380
1 British Airways 747
1 Virgin Atlantic 747
1 easyJet A320
1 FlyBe E195
1 SunExpress B737

[Luke SkyToddler]

From my class of 7 in 1994 - 2 guys are flying jets, me and one other, and another is kind-of flying, he retrained to helicopters after a couple years unemployed on fixed wing. More money than brains, yeah I know

The other 4 all lucked out - one lost his medical shortly after finishing the course :sad: , one's a card dealer in Auckland casino, one's milking cows, and one's in an office job

[faacfilookingforajob]

in my batch, only one found a job in a big airline, the rest gave up or are struggling.
guys who want be pilot after 2008 are dreamer or totally crazy.


I met a guy few months ago, he sent 700cv and he got 10 negative answers. the guy has 4000 flight hours so yes it s a good time for this industry to take your money and getting nothing back in return.

of you are not hired by British airway or easy jet in their mpl scheme, forget about it. why should they hire you? because you have the right attitude or your loaded with cash?

[PilotFox]

My class finished in november 2013.
So after almost a year, out of the 19, 5 are hired by Ryanair and 3 or 4 others will have their assessment coming up shortly.
The remaing will have a tough job to get into the industry.

[pilotchute]

Pilot fox,

The only job going for your group was Ryan?

I'm curious, where did you guys think you would end up?

[hoox]

Finished 2011. Started as 8, 2 dropped out, 1 still in training (...)
Out of the 5 left:
- one flying 320 for Condor
- one flying CRJ for LH Cityline
- one flying MEP + Kingair
- one unemployed
- and me flying for Swiss

[P40Warhawk]

LFT?

Then its easy that you guys fly all in Switzerland and Germany ;) .

[hoox]

LFT?

Nope, just a small private flightschool.
the courses finishing after us have way worse numbers in terms of jobs landed..

[P40Warhawk]

Which one if I may ask? Because these numbers in a bad period where we live in right now is not bad.

How did you guys got these jobs?

[hoox]

Which one if I may ask? Because these numbers in a bad period where we live in right now is not bad.

How did you guys got these jobs?

You have a pm. honestly, we have just been very lucky, and at least in 2011 there were some job opportunities in germany.

[pakythepilot]

if you can speak German there are many opportunities in German speaking countries.