Emirates cancels the A350

[emratty]

No A350 for Emirates so it looks like a 777/380 fleet and the talk is for another order of A380's in addition to the 50 recently ordered.
Emirates cancels 70 A350s after A380 deal - 6/11/2014 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/emirates-cancels-70-a350s-after-a380-deal-400279/)

[TheDarkHorse]

You'll never hear them announcing that ;)

[Fair Wx Pilot]

So how long will the 330s and 340s stay on now????:rolleyes:

[High Energy]

There is more to this story, surely. Waiting for Part-2...

A333NEO/A380NEO launch customer or even more A380CEO's?

[Mr Good Cat]

I'm not sure there was ever a firm commitment to the airplane.

It seemed obvious to most that the large airbus orders had options to shift between types as necessary. Emirates is dedicating itself to the 380 by investing heavily in the program and as long as the planes are full seems to be paying itself off. Other airlines are certainly struggling at this stage to make a 380 fleet efficient enough to order in large numbers.

The 350 delivery which was pushed further and further back to the point where it now encroaches on the 777-8/9 schedule and negated the 350's purpose somewhat.

It seems the whole EK fleet will settle at a smaller size than originally planned which can't be good for potential joiners... What will be the time to command now?

[FLEX/MCT]

Well this is great news, bring on that 10 years to command....every day in this place it gets worse. As soon as my bond is up I'm seriously tempted to tell them where they can stick their night Indias, sub-inflation pay rises and petty little rules.

[donpizmeov]

Calm down kidlets. They have been saying a fleet size of 250 to 280 by 2024 for years now. So nothing has changed. 110 380s and 150 777 would add up, so this has been on the cards all along it seems.


If you are still under a bond there is no aircraft delivery for your command. This has been stated for years as well. And you wonder why its been increased and extended to 5yrs?


the Don

[FLEX/MCT]

Well Don considering I'm still stuck on the minibus that will push things back further now the magic direct entry 380 FO wunderkind are sat happily cranking up their 2500 on type...

I believe they are still telling people 3-5 years at interview (second hand info so may be wrong). Also I believe they are telling newbies straight off the plane (who were told 380) that they are now going onto the 330 (again second hand info...). Be careful what you sign your name to...

[Mr Good Cat]

Changing your type on arrival in Dubai is nothing new... It was happening to guys when I joined long long ago.

And it's not exclusive to EK - any airline can change your promised type on arrival as it suits. The difference here is just the way it's marketed at the interviews / roadshows.

[FLEX/MCT]

Difference then was it wasn't adding three years of misery and wasted time to your career....

[donpizmeov]

777 FOs have been upgrading 3 to 4 yrs faster than the 330 FO that joined on the same day for years. The last of the 310 FOs were also screwed. Nothing new here. All has been stayed here for years as well.
Ask the 4yr plus 777 FO what he has been told about his upgrade now. When you join EK as an FO expect to stay one for a long time. As has been stated for years.
Recent JoBerg roadshow were told commands have historically taken between 3 and 5 yrs. I guess you need to listen to the detail. Interestingly the road show was not attended by those that were targeted.

The don

[thehonourablefong]

Sure there's something about a no-poaching agreement...

[nolimitholdem]

don,

Actually at a recent roadshow in SIN, no one whatsoever attended, target or otherwise. The shine has worn off the polished turd for some time now.

As far as the 350 story, meh. Did anyone ever really believe they'd be on the property? Here's my quote from a post in 2011:

Announcements are cheap. Perhaps I'd believe the A350 orders if they were more than a gleam in an engineers eye, ever getting smaller in the distance.

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/468957-dubai-airshow-more-777s.html

[GoreTex]

told everyone on the 330 for years to go on the 380, the usual answer was, no way I get my command here faster or I don't have the hours, if you don't have the hours then get some because others have them, if you really thought you would upgrade earlier on a dying fleet then thats what you deserve.

it has been on pprune for a decade now that EK doesn't care about seniority and never will, don't join and then cry wolf.

[Pin Head]

Interesting. Is recruitment starting up again? Heard a figure of 509 needed from September?

[BigGeordie]

I have no doubt they do need them....but will they get them? You can't recruit those that don't apply.

[Alconguin Crusader]

With min hours now at 2000 hrs and probably soon to go lower there has to be plenty of Ryanair pilots that paid for their training willing to slave for Emirates.

[flyer19832007]

With min hours now at 2000 hrs and probably soon to go lower

Care to shed some light on that.....?

Website still quotes 2500 or 4000TT of which 2000 Jet etc etc

[Desdihold]

I agree with Alcoon the Ryanair issue,
The practices of the company and it's pay for training pilots has cheapened the industry.


The cancer (of Ryanair) has arrived at EK and we will all pay the price.

[thehonourablefong]

The requirements now are exactly the same as when I applied in January 2012, having looked in October 2011.

Whether they are about to be cut more is another question of course...

Back to the thread though, whilst giving a wide berth to any discussion of cancers etc, does this mean that for the forseeable future, every single 330/340 pilot will spend the entire ground school washup banging on about their career progression, the plan for 380 transitions and extremely importantly what credit will be given for hours upon conversion? I hope so, let's keep ourselves in the front of the company's minds!

[Desert Driver]

These are very interesting times, lots of changes. Historically fleet orders change and some get disadvantaged whilst others gain. If you are counting the places to upgrade then it is frustrating but second guessing deliveries is a fools game that only leads to disappointment as we have no control or influence of what gets ordered or delivered.
If you are waiting for the precious upgrade to fix all life's woes then after a short while you will be sadly disappointed. Fed up with night turns in the right hand seat then you will also get fed up with them from the left. The extra cash will wear thin after a wile.
Get a hobby, enjoy whatever is your thing and work to live. Control the parts of your life you have control of, or make a change. Don't be a victim of circumstance.

DD

[BLOGGSON]

My understanding about A350 is that EK had a walk away without penalty clause if the aircraft's weight couldn't be guaranteed to go below a predetermined threshold. So, it's a fat bastard then.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

[QUOTE] And it's not exclusive to EK - any airline can change your promised type on arrival as it suits. The difference here is just the way it's marketed at the interviews / roadshows.[QUOTE]

Yep ano airline across the road chap left employment say rather quicker than his notice period to go on 777 and ended up on A300-600 freighter, its a small world sometime

[Kiskaloo]

I've heard that Emirates shifted their deposits from the A350 to the 50-frame A380 order they placed last year. They have yet to choose an engine supplier for those frames, so that may signal a switch to RR power for them (EA is their current A380 engine supplier) and Tim Clark has stated in the press he believes only RR will offer a "new engine option" for the A380.

Early A350-900s are heavy, but not terribly so and Airbus is reducing the weight much quicker than Boeing did on the 787-8 so I don't think that clause (if true) was the basis for this cancellation.

I think EK could add some more 777-300ERs in the interim, but they do have 50 options on top of the 150 777X commitments, which would cover the A350 on a total seat-capacity basis. And EK could always extend their current 777-300ER leases to cover the time-gap to the 777X.

[gl69]

I can't imagine this is news to Airbus. My friend supplies EK with aircraft interiors and he was told over a year ago by Emirates that they were not going to pursue the 350 so he (the supplier) could stop working on the project.
So for over a year now I have been telling my pilot friends to expect a slower upgrade. Now that it is official it is finally sinking in. Over 10 years to captain. Ouch!

[RoyalEnfield]

What is sad is that EK management doesn't see it fit to tell the employees about the cancellation and we have to find out from other news sources.

[fatbus]

That order of 50 777 300 er were incase of the 350 having to be CNX / delayed .

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Time for new joiners and those applying to seriously consider Fly Dubai or the competition up the road. The 10 year upgrade hardly makes it worthwhile anymore along with the ever increasing cost of living in Dubai. The 4-5 months of brutality and inhumane weather, the sandpit culture and lack of a commuting contract have made Emirates noncompetitive. Not saying it is better in any other region as all contracts have their faults it just seems Emirates is no longer a great place of employment. Do your homework and talk to the insiders before joining so you are clear on all aspects of the job. For young families it seems Fly Dubai now is a better fit instead of being gone 16 plus days per month on a widebody you will be home every day and upgrade in 3 years. The PBS scheduling is also a big draw as eventually you will have control of your lifestyle.

[CAYNINE]

Wyoming...... what sort of drugs are you on man???????

Do you ACTUALLY KNOW anyone from FD?????

You have no idea what you are even talking about :mad:

Just more mindless immature crap flowing from yet another ignorant poster.

[palm]

WYOMINGPILOT is right CAYNINE......

[cerbus]

Cay nine are you expressing shock at what was said about emirates or Fly Dubai?
If you referring to EK WY pilot is spot on. Don't waste your time in Dubai flying for Emirates. You as a pilot are much better off elsewhere. In most cases you will make more money and work less hours. A win win situation.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Caynine I am currently using an anti-kool aid drug which obviously you are not and a a clear consumer of Emirates management brew. I have friends at both carriers and the competition up the road. Everything I said in my post is factual. If you want control of your schedule after a few years of seniority with PBS then Fly Dubai far outweighs Emirates in time off and QOL while working. The upgrades are 2-3 years vs. 10 years plus and you are home every day which has big benefit for a family guy. Your mindless and ignorant posts demonstrate your trapped in the sandpit and crying out in desperation.

[abZorbatheleak]

These are very interesting times, lots of changes. Historically fleet orders change and some get disadvantaged whilst others gain. If you are counting the places to upgrade then it is frustrating but second guessing deliveries is a fools game that only leads to disappointment as we have no control or influence of what gets ordered or delivered.
If you are waiting for the precious upgrade to fix all life's woes then after a short while you will be sadly disappointed. Fed up with night turns in the right hand seat then you will also get fed up with them from the left. The extra cash will wear thin after a wile.
Get a hobby, enjoy whatever is your thing and work to live. Control the parts of your life you have control of, or make a change. Don't be a victim of circumstance.

DD I think you nailed it with this statement. Life is too short to worry about upgrades etc. The airline industry is dynamic and ever changing and one simply doesn't know which way it will go. Live your life for now and prioritize your family and friends. Work to live not live to work. The guys that were complainers in the right seat are still complaining in the left.

I personally think that the A350 cancellation will be substituted with more 777's and A380's. I also think we are approaching an unprecedented time in Emirates history where for the first time there will be a bit of movement generated by retirements and resignations by an ever increasing "older" pilot group. Also new opportunities present themselves as the global aviation market recovers which will no doubt attract some. Bottom line, who can really accurately predict a time to Command or anything else for that matter.

[Payscale]

I just love it when friends of someone who might work in a ME carrier expresses expertise knowledge. Everyone and his dog can be a career adviser.

[CAYNINE]

I call your bluff Wyoming, I don't believe you know anyone at Fly Dubai.

There is no comparison, EK has and does have better conditions than the boys on the 73.

Now run off and have yr cool aid son

[MagicCarpet]

I think EK Airbus FOs are even more screwed than before due to this 350 cancellation.

330/340 upgrade prospects are grim on a dying fleet.

Yes, 330/340 FOs can go to the right seat of the 380, but it means resetting the upgrade Hobbs meter to 0-0-0-0-0 and re-starting the slow climb to 2,500 hrs on type for 380 command.

And I doubt 330/340 FOs will get to transition to 777. Upgrades slowed down on Boeing recently so enough 777 FOs to go around. And fat chance of 330/340 FOs going directly to left seat of the Boeing considering 777 captains with ZERO prior Airbus time are now coming directly to the left seat of the 380. Good luck going from Airbus to Boeing.

I think current 380 FOs will suffer a huge setback along with their main fleet brethren. All those 330/340 captains will likely transition to 380 skippers as the 330s & 340s are retired. There are hundreds of them and they’re all senior to most current FOs on the 380.

And yes, upgrade really does matter. FOs sweat out hours of economy class staff travel when Business is full, while Boeing guys years junior to them are traveling first class. Even teenage children of Boeing skippers years junior go first class ahead of you. Money-wise, Boeing skippers years junior to Airbus FOs are making a good 20,000+ $/Euro per year more. And unlike Bus FOs, those Boeing skippers years junior have a world of high-paying direct entry captain jobs available should they decide they want to move on. With zero current PIC the Bus FOs are qualified for little more than hiring in as most junior FO on some other seniority list in the world to start the same climb all over again.

Magic

[sluggums]

Agree with a lot of these points. The only thing that's open to debate is the 350 cancellation. I'm mot sure it will affect the overall numbers of aircraft arriving and therefore the requirement for CM1's.

[what_goes_up]

considering 777 captains with ZERO prior Airbus time are now coming directly to the left seat of the 380.
Rumour or fact...?

[MagicCarpet]

Fact. 100%. First Airbus ever flown was 380, from left seat, not right.

[nakbin330]

So? It's an aeroplane. More complex, I agree, but still an aeroplane.

[zerozol]

Hi all, just a quick question for those who works for EK: is it true that EK was due to take some early-A350s in 2015 (ahead of the original 2019 delivery schedule), and the flight simulator has been arrived to Dubai already, as well as crew was told to prepare for transition from A330/340 to A350 this year?

Thanks for the answers!

[sluggums]

Possibly, no and no.

[davidbrent]

Hello

Does anybody on the a330/340 or in the company know if there are any multiple-turnarounds on the a330 roster? Ie: 3 or 4 sector days??

Can't seem to find the answer anywhere...

Thanks in advance

DB

[BobDole]

Typically not. In the past they had us fly a double DOH or double BAH but that has not happened for quite a while.

You will however occasionally get your "double DOH" as in land from DOH at 6am and then head back there that same night at 11pm. :{

[Wizofoz]

Does anybody on the a330/340 or in the company know if there are any multiple-turnarounds on the a330 roster? Ie: 3 or 4 sector days??


Not on it myself, but the answer is no- mainly 2 sector days with some single sector overnights.

[thehonourablefong]

Wiz...

As the guys joining now will almost certainly not fly the 340, you need to edit your post;

mainly 2 sector days with a single overnight.

And boy do we love Calcutta! Apparently!

[davidbrent]

Bob & wiz

Thanks for that info!

Appreciated

[Wizofoz]

As the guys joining now will almost certainly not fly the 340, you need to edit your post;

Do you think the boning of the A350 will change that, Fong? We may have to hang onto the 340 for a while.

[thehonourablefong]

Wiz

We should keep hold of them, seeing as the 345 is the only aeroplane on the Warzone Fleet with an acceptable/saleable cabin layout, but from what I have heard (from a man who should know) the 345 WILL be gone by the end of this FY and the 4 remaining 343's will stay, meaning there are enough 340 guys to see it bow out in 2017.

The 332 Luxe Liners, after putting in magnificent service as the most capable, adaptable, beloved aeroplane in Emirate's history, are expected to be largely gone by the end of 2016 (and entirely gone by 2017) and the 350 wasn't actually due to arrive until 2019 (according to Airbus' press release). That means that they must (should?) have had a plan to fill that time/capacity gap with 777's or 380's and the 350 cancellation should be an entirely separate matter to the fleet drawdown, even though that sounds a bit odd.

However, there is a rumour going around that the 380 is about to become the subject of another maintenance issue, this time to do with doors or something. That's not official, but if it were true, I'd say they'd try to keep the 332's on in preference of the 340's due fuel burn, especially if pax aren't on the thing for more than an hour and a half at a time.

But that's this week...

[RoyalEnfield]

The 340 CCQs are starting again in July so maybe the 345s will be around a bit longer.

[thehonourablefong]

Yeah I'll be interested to see what happens there, last I'd heard there was now only a single course planned.

[stealthpilot]

thonourablef lets be a tad optimistic a few nice(r) layovers will come to the 330 ....... what's left post training that is :ok:

[zerozol]

Sluggums,

Sorry for the late reaction, but thanks for the answer to my question about the A350-training and others.

Cheers