More MOD Silver up for Sale

[CoffmanStarter]

I expect other members will have seen the article in the Sunday Times Business section today concerning the proposed sale of the GPSS Network.

Government Pipelines and Storage System (GPSS)

The GPSS comprises 2,000 kilometres of operating pipelines and 15 COMAH registered storage sites. The operational storage depots are connected to the pipeline system which receives supplies from some of the major refining centres and port areas in England.

The GPSS receives, stores, transports and delivers light oil petroleum products for military and civil users and it distributes 40% of aviation fuel within the United Kingdom. In peacetime the military only use around 10% of the current throughput and 60% of the storage capacity of the system. The GPSS not only supplies aviation fuel to the military but it also has a substantial role in supplying aviation fuel the UK’s commercial airports.

http://gs-press.com.au/images/news_articles/cache/Government_Pipeline_and_Storage_System_route_map-0x600.jpg

The UK Governments stated aim behind the proposed deal is :

(1) Enabling increased private sector investment in the GPSS in order to increase the resilience of the system and allow even greater commercial development, by removing current restrictions on developing the system for greater commercial usage unless there is an underpinning defence requirement.

(2) Generating a capital receipt for UK Government.

UK GPSS Sale (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/35893/gpss_booklet.pdf)

What's the betting that the RAF ends up paying through the nose for its future Aviation fuel supply and storage needs post this privatisation :rolleyes:

[Pozidrive]

No comment on the rights or wrongs, but this has been on the cards for a long time.


There was something in the press over a year ago, and I'm sure the map showed a line from Falmouth to St Mawgan, which isn't on this version.


There are other systems, already privately operated.

[Vendee]

What's the betting that the RAF ends up paying through the nose for its future Aviation fuel supply and storage needs post this privatisation :rolleyes:Wouldn't have thought so. When they are down to less than a dozen aircraft, the fuel bill will be quite manageable :{

[ShotOne]

"..RAF ends up paying through the nose..?" At the moment taxpayers have to pay the entire cost of running, maintaining and developing the pipeline network. Surely sharing that burden with commercial partners can only reduce that cost?

[CoffmanStarter]

ShotOne ...

Agreed ... but then a commercial operator will want to make a profit from the venture ... which is a further cost to be absorbed within the Business Model. Added to which, if further investment is made to cater for wider commercial interests, those amortised costs will need to be covered by the revenue take. Sale and Leaseback is usually a one-off win for any seller.

One hopes that from a "National Security" perspective that any ultimate owner/operator will be a UK organisation ...

[Melchett01]

I shouldn't be so surprised. Governments of both hues have repeatedly shown that they are willing to sell anything for the right price.

I absolutely shudder to think what the list would look like if you drew one up listing just how much of UK plc's strategic interests are now in the hands of private and overseas shareholder.

Robert Peston pretty much had it right in his book 'Who Runs Britain?' Government and business, business and government: hard to tell the difference these days.

[ShotOne]

"..need to be covered by the revenue take". Surely an improvement on being funded in full by the taxpayer?

Re. national security, what are you worried they'll dig it up?

[Stendec5]

Does anyone give a toss about National Security anymore? Since the early 90s our entire military capability has been reduced to levels I never thought any even half-way responsible government would inflict. Doubtless there will be yet more reductions to come.
I fear that one day there will be a terrible price to pay for all this. (the famous quote from Santayana)

[ShotOne]

How does cutting a deal to share this expensive and underused facility harm national security? On the contrary, every penny spent digging pipelines and fuel bunkers is money NOT available for aircraft and missiles.

For some the issue seems to be that someone might make a profit. How terrible! Perhaps for some ppruners the wrong side won the Cold War!

[CoffmanStarter]

The possibility of being held to commercial ransom for one ... but you are entitled to your opinion ShotOne :ok:

[fabs]

Has Lossiemouth moved?

[Melchett01]

Coff,

I think this is all part if the Govt's green agenda. Expect to start seeing photovoltaic cells on hangar roofs and all aircraft converted to electric. And once you've done that, Bob's your uncle - fuel supplies don't matter, the Greens are happy as are the NIMBYs who now don't have those horrid aircraft making that ghastly racket.

You heard it here first!

[Stendec5]

ShotOne.

Profit is no bad thing as long as it benefits the nation/community as well as the entrepreneur. However, if you have profit but leave behind an economically blighted area where jobs are scarce, do you not create the very conditions that our opponents in the Cold War would thrive on?
A certain irony there, surely?

[kaitakbowler]

Guard commander at Sandy was my "war role", for a while in the '80's. Over to G4S?

PM

[diginagain]

Has Lossiemouth moved?No, but the inhabitants of Peterhead are delighted at their subsidised fuel.

[alwayslookingup]

Fabs, Post #11, Lossiemouth hasn't moved, nor has Kinloss. I worked for John Laing Construction in 1980 when we laid that pipeline and it definitely included ISK. In fact, a neighbour of ours was Kinloss Supply Officer and when I told him I'd got the job he said "great, that's my fuel".

[Courtney Mil]

It's OK. As long as the fuel supply is secure and cannot be tampered with in times of need, I'm sure there will be no problem.:bored:

[mad_jock]

That chart seems to be out.

Pipeline network (http://www.linewatch.co.uk/pipeline_network.php)

[Always a Sapper]

Good luck to who ever buys it, hope they have deep pockets for the repairs and get on well with the EA.

I wonder what they will do with the Cross Country Pipeline to LYNE now? Couple of years ago they said they had filled it with inert gas. Hopefully it's still in it.

[smujsmith]

Interesting that the Purton site, is likely to be shut down, due to safety concerns in the near future. A recent, locally opposed, housing development (subsequently overridden) now encroaches on the safety zone for the installation. Once complete, I'm in no doubt that the anti's will be demanding the removal of this threat to the new houses. As these little known public owned services are sold off, so we diminish the support to those who serve. Sorry, I suppose I'm just getting a bit old and jaded.

Smudge

[Melchett01]

Sorry, I suppose I'm just getting a bit old and jaded.

No you're not Smudge. As my last CO said when I said exactly the same thing "you, along with those that serve along side you aren't cynical, you just have standards and know the difference between what is correct and what is right."

And you know what, he was spot on. There are very few officers I have worked with over the years that left such an indelible imprint in one short sentence, but he managed it. And much of what we are seeing happen to Defence, the gradual chipping away of capability and erosion of standards is exemplified by this sort of issue. And now, if I am ever in doubt over a decision, I stop and ask myself - is it the correct decision or is it the right decision.

I can imagine some Fast Track Johnny sitting around with some senior civil servant and some senior officer "We need to save money now, and as nobody can come up with a reason why we shouldn't get rid of it, then it must be the correct decision."

Have a look in the Telegraph today (Britain calls up Dad's Army of spies to watch Russia - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10883621/Britain-calls-up-Dads-Army-of-spies-to-watch-Russia.html) )the story about having to back to the 'Cold War warriors' to plug gaps because with the end of the Cold War we wouldn't need to speak Russian. I suppose that was a 'correct' decision at the time too.

[Ogre]

Has Lossiemouth moved?

I think Leuchars is going South for the winter as well.

Perhaps this an intentional piece of misdirection, designed to mislead any potential wrongdoer into thinking the pipeline is actually somewhere else.

Or it could just be bad Geography. I once overheard a conversation between two MOD civilians who could not work out why it took so long to get to Saxa Vord from Kinloss. A quick check of the map of the UK in his pocket diary showed it was just off the East coast, level with Aberdeen. His failure to notice the line around the Shetlands map that was meant to show that this section had been moved to fit on the page was shared by his colleague who agreed with him

[tucumseh]

Or it could just be bad Geography. I once overheard a conversation between two MOD civilians who could not work out why it took so long to get to Saxa Vord from Kinloss. A quick check of the map of the UK in his pocket diary showed it was just off the East coast, level with Aberdeen. His failure to notice the line around the Shetlands map that was meant to show that this section had been moved to fit on the page was shared by his colleague who agreed with him


Precisely what happened at the SAR policy meeting in 1986 in Empress State when a beancounter produced such a BBC weather map with Orkney and Shetland some miles east of Sunderland. He flipped over an acetate with a series of 200m radius rings drawn and said, if there were two SAR bases inside any ring, one must close. An Air Cdre was chair and he simply couldn't get a word out. About half a dozen of us shouted "Time on task", but the BC was gone. That was the day we "finalised" the conversion programme for CSAR aircraft! That was quietly ditched as well.

[Haraka]

I went Stateside with one such self-appointed expert who went out and loaded up with " Extremely Good Value" electrical goods in Washington to bring home on the VC 10.
We let him.

[Heathrow Harry]

FYI I think the Falmouth line is no more

They have dug up the large tank farm at Swanpool Bay (which always had an Aldermaston telephone number on the gate)and are building houses there now

[4mastacker]

Interesting that the Purton site, is likely to be shut down, due to safety concerns in the near future.

I take it that it is only the storage tanks that will be taken out of service rather than the pipeline that passes through the site. Otherwise Fairford and Brize will have to get used to fleets of road tankers passing through. I suppose some would call that progress? :ugh:

[PTR 175]

Tis true, the tanks at Swanvale are being built on. Not sure if the pipeline to Coastlines wharf is still intact as that is under threat also. I do not know how St Mawgan aka Newquay airport gets its fuel from.

[Heathrow Harry]

I think the Falmouth tanks were removed a year or so back and site decontaminated last year

[Pozidrive]

Not sure, but weren't those the disused WW2 tanks?


Plenty of other tank storage in the docks area, and the pipeline to St Mawgan is only about 30 years old.

[Heathrow Harry]

might be - the dockside underground tanks are still in use and they sometimes use the roof for practice helicopter landings (!!!)

[mad_jock]

so in summary the whole thing is knackard and they can't afford to maintain it.

They also can't afford to de-commission it and clear it up.

So they are hoping to sell it/get rid of it. In the event of it being bought and then the company holding it goes bust it becomes someone else's problem.

[smujsmith]

Mad Jock,

"So they are hoping to sell it/get rid of it. In the event of it being bought and then the company holding it goes bust it becomes someone else's problem."

Of course, under the present government it becomes the taxpayers problem, their natural selection to bail out private enterprise. Which begs the bloody question, why sell it in the first place ?

Smudge:ok:

[mad_jock]

Of course it does but it may be a local authority problem.

Either way it's not the current owners budget it comes out of.