If it Looks right it flies right?

[Pace]

Maybe an odd question and very much about beauty in the eyes of the beholder but some aircraft I see as works of art.

Not GA but Concord and the Vulcan Bomber both stick in my mind as having a certain magic a certain beauty which verge on the description of works of art!

Talking SEP Then the Sia Marchetti 260 and obviously the Spitfire both have that feel of works of art.

What GA aircraft can you think of which you would describe as works of art ?

Pace

[LowNSlow]

The Auster Agricola Auster Pictures (http://www.picsearch.com/imageDetail.cgi?id=-vZNWE1c6N60qPBG8X0-EB5aJY5s5HfxLu_UpILDSDk&start=1&q=Auster Agricola)

Seriously though, the Frati designed F-22 is a good looker Photos: General Avia F-22A Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/General-Avia-F-22A/1769431/L/&sid=10df553ba8c0b2be32dfaeddf9bc5dbf)

[Camargue]

Midget Mustang
Tiger Moth
DH88 Comet

and for military

SR22 Blackbird.

[Hydromet]

Lockheed Constellation

[cumulusrider]

K6e, ASW19 JS1, Brittania

[treadigraph]

Pre-war:

Staggerwing
Spartan Executive
Chilton DW-1
Most of the Wacos

Post war:

Aerostar
Falco
Cosmic Wind

[The500man]

Pitts Model 12 (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/factory.php). Look at the purple one!

[Dr Jekyll]

Beech Starship.

[JAKL]

Has to be the Goose, on land or sea, the freedom to go almost anywhere.

[treadigraph]

Also the Monocoupe 90...

re the Starship, I was astonished to see a US registered example appear on FR24 heading NE over NW London several weeks ago - too far away to see from Croydon!

I hear one or two owners did defy the Beech buy back and scrap programme - anyone confirm there has been one in Europe recently?

[Saab Dastard]

I know it's not GA, but since you mentioned the Vulcan: Mirage IV - best looking delta warplane, ever!

SD

[flybymike]

Doubtless I will be shot down, but I reckon the Sportcruiser is a cracking looking little aeroplane

[Rocket2]

By far & away the glorious DH Chipmunk in all it's guises :p

[Beethoven]

Any I can afford to fly dazzles me with its beauty (even the PA38:O) but I am completely in love with the Starduster Too.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

By far & away the glorious DH Chipmunk in all it's guises

Absolutely agree. Lovely looking, and the best handling GA type in my (pretty wide) experience.

[OpenCirrus619]

Tiger Moth

Not sure this is a good example of "flies right".

One DH had:

Moved the centre section forward/swept the upper wing (to allow the instructor to get out quickly)
Added dihedral to the lower wings (to increase wing tip clearance)

the DH82a (Tiger Moth) was much further from "flies right" than the DH60 (Gipsy Moth).

All that said they are great things to fly - the quirks introduced by the "improvements", above, just make it more challenging to fly them well.

OC619

[BEagle]

Pace wrote: What GA aircraft can you think of which you would describe as works of art ?

Falco F8L. Nothing else comes close - except, perhaps, the SIAI-Marchetti SF-260.

[SFCC]

Falco.
If you disagree, you're wrong.:}

[Piper.Classique]

Standard Mucha and standard Libelle for gliders. Jodel 112 for aircraft, any balloon not a special shape, and the Pioneer 200 for microlight.

[thing]

Lancair Legacy for me, that Buggati racer job looks pretty fine too. Glider wise I still think the ASW19 is a gorgeous looking beast. Helicopters...er functional is probably the best word.

[effortless]

Miles Gemini, I fell in love with it when I first saw it in the early fifties. I loved nearly all Miles kites.

Beagle 206. Okay I'm old.

[glendalegoon]

I think the DC3 looks right.

And I think the F106 is better looking than the mirage IV.


The 757 was quite good looking. So too the stretch DC8.

let's talk ugly planes!


That european A400 prop transport looks like crap.

So does the Shorts aircraft.

The Viscount always looked a little queer to me.

The BAC Lightning (while fast) was funny looking.

But the Lockheed P38 lightning was a thing of beauty.

[Crash one]

PBY Catalina Vulcan B2
C47/DC3
Bell 47
Any genuine Spitfire
Sea Hawk
Piel Emeraude
In no particular order.

[what next]

Another vote for the Sea Hawk. And of the GA aeroplanes, I always liked the looks of the Lear Fan. A pity that the FAA didn't like it as much.

[Pace]

SIAI-Marchetti SF-260.

BEagle

Thanks for correcting my spelling of that wonderful machine :) Flew one once for RealAirSimulations an addon company for MSFS when we were developing the flight model for the flight sim model.
Beautiful thing to fly ;)

Pace

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/crowdedEGCCapron60sJodrellBankinbackground1_zps6fb3949e.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/crowdedEGCCapron60sJodrellBankinbackground1_zps6fb3949e.jpg. html)

Today most airliners look the same, with the possible exception of the Boeing 747 Jumbo Jet and the Airbus A380. Almost all of the rest are low-wing twins of various sizes but indistinguishable shapes. It wasn't always so. Click on the image above to see it in detail.

I came across the above picture recently, taken at Manchester Airport probably in the 1970s, and it got me thinking. It shows five airliners typical of the time, and each is distinctive. It's true that even back then there were similarities between some types; the Boeing 707 and the Douglas DC8 might have needed a second glance to differentiate them, for instance. But mostly, airliners of the time were easily identifiable and the variety of designs made 'aeroplane watching' more interesting than it perhaps is today.

The aeroplane nearest the camera is a Vickers Viscount, which with its Rolls Royce Dart engines (remember that distinctive whistle?) was a highly successful short haul turboprop. Behind it is the attractive French Caravelle, a de Havilland Comet 4, a Douglas DC8, and finally perhaps the most graceful airliner after Concorde, the Vickers VC10.

It's interesting that three of the five are British designs (we don't build any airliners at all these days) and all except the DC8 have Rolls Royce engines. And look at the front end of the Comet and Caravelle - they are the same. Sud Aviation used the de Havilland design of nose when they built their pretty twin-jet, yet in spite of having identical nose sections the two aeroplanes are of completely different appearance. These two aircraft also share the Rolls Royce Avon engine, and all of them except the Viscount were incredibly noisy on take off!

In the background can be seen the Jodrell Bank Radio Telescope standing sentinel over the Cheshire fields then, as it still does today.



.

[India Four Two]

the Pioneer 200 for microlight.

P.C,

What a nice-looking aeroplane. I hadn't heard of it. That's going on my list of things to consider owning.

[Camargue]

dh88

Fair point

Looks like a Constable
Fly's like a Turner :)

[Pace]

Love the look of the Scandinavian in picture above :ok:

Airbus? Souless constructions and in that way Boeing wins hands down

Pace

[India Four Two]

SSD,

What a wonderful photo on so many levels!

It's Manchester, so of course it's been raining ;)

The bustle of activity around the aircraft, including the elegantly dressed stewardess walking behind the Caravelle.

The slightly nose-down stance of the Stretch 8 and the VC-10.

The wonderful lines of the Comet until you get to the tail. What were they thinking of putting a prop-liner's empennage on her?

No L1 door on the Comet. Were they all like that?

The different designs of the fuselage cheat lines, going from straight on the Viscount and becoming progressively more "swoopy" down the line. I always thought the Speedbird paint scheme was a masterpiece. Imagine how it would look on today's fleet, with a simple, gold "BA" on the nose. :ok:

Jodrell Bank. I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't pointed it out. I saw the same view from the other side in the late 60s. I was racing across the Cheshire Plain at 90 kts on a low-level Navex in a Chipmunk (well, 90kts seems fast at 250'). I wasn't paying any attention to the compass, just enjoying the scenery and waggling the wings at people who waved, when suddenly I saw that famous silhouette looming up in the distance :eek:

A quick turn right to get out of the TMA and some frantic map reading to get back on track!

[flybymike]

Yup, brilliant photo.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I hasten to reinforce that it's not a picture I took - just one I found on t'internet. But I agree it is superb.

The other point of note is the upward tilt of the outer engines on the DC8. AFAIK the 707's were all level. Anyone know why the '8 was like that?

I-42 I, too, have flown a chippy at sub 200 feet across Cheshire on many occasions, but in the LLR. It's much more interesting down there 'in the landscape' (even mid Cheshire isn't flat when seen from down there!) as you say waving your wings to folk who wave at you, and with the power and speed up (a whole 105 kts, maybe!) trimmed slightly nose up with the stick held forward in case 'instant height' was required to comply with the 500' rule or powerlines (naturally, one flew around towns and villages!). The Chippy's lovely harmonisation was even crisper with those extra few knots!

Probably not advisable today when everyone has a video camera on their phone and even legal low flying broadcast on YouTube can invite 'questions'.

[It flies]

To my eye this one is very pretty:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1450980M.jpg

But then I'd say almost any 1930's racing aircraft looks good. I like this earlier one as well.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/8/0/1477086.jpg

[India Four Two]

trimmed slightly nose up with the stick held forward in case 'instant height' was required to comply with the 500' rule or powerlines (naturally, one flew around towns and villages!). SSD,

Luckily, I was in one of Aunty Betty's T10s and properly authorized to be at 250'. :ok:

So I didn't need to avoid villages and we didn't plan to fly LL over towns. Power lines, we did pay attention to.

Of course, I never went any lower than 250'! ;)

[Squeegee Longtail]

Sir Sydney Canmm's Hunter. The T7 to me better than the single seat.
If only fuel prices were lower!!

[patowalker]

Doubtless I will be shot down, but I reckon the Sportcruiser is a cracking looking little aeroplane.

Only if it is on the ground. From below, the slab wings and wide fuselage make it look like what it is: a Zenair CH601 Mk II. :)

[Lone_Ranger]

Shaggy, I am far from a fan of airliners, but blimey, whats the chances of getting all the best ones in one pic? Classic stuff, the only downside being that the best one is at the back (fond memories of Night time circuits and bumps in XV107 (RAF)

[mary meagher]

For me, (and I am an aviation artist!) the Boeing 777 is the perfect aeroplane.
Its proportions are so sweet that at first glance, it looks quite petite; until you spot the first officer doing a walk around, and he looks like an ant walking round a swan.

The engines are a surprise as well, large and powerful but not obtrusive. It must be a joy to fly, and until San Francisco, not a single fatality.

Going back a bit, has to be the Dakota. Now there is a proper taildragger.

The K13 glider is the classic trainer, excellent viz for both pilots, spins nicely, recovers easily, handles well. But my favorite X-country glider was the Pegasus. 40 to one, carries water very well, no vices.

And really, the J3 Cub on Floats is hard to beat.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Shaggy, I am far from a fan of airliners, but blimey, whats the chances of getting all the best ones in one pic? Classic stuff, the only downside being that the best one is at the back (fond memories of Night time circuits and bumps in XV107 (RAF)

Don't know about 'all the best ones'. I don't think the DC8 was much of a looker, and of course Concorde would need to be there to warrant that description.:ok:

Unlike Mary I don't rate the 777 for looks - it's just another low-winged tube with 2 engines, and it has a stumpy nose. The 757 is also a low-winged tube, but it has more elegance than the 777 IMO.

Of the airliners flying today, perhaps the 747-400 is the best looking? The A380 the ugliest?

[Pace]

Mary

I agree on the 777 I just flew back from a recurrent on the Citation from the USA on a BA777 and agree there is something special about the 777.
That is the point! Airbus are souless creatures Boeing while not being as technically advanced have soul.

Pace

[Saab Dastard]

Of the airliners flying today, perhaps the 747-400 is the best looking?

My favourite is the A340, it reminds me of the 707 and DC8 - classic airliners!

Sd

[India Four Two]

the engines are a surprise as well, large and powerful but not obtrusive.Mary, they certainly are large. Here's a 777 GE engine with a 737 nose for scale:

http://myaviation.net/?pid=00130585

SD,

I agree - the A340 looks wonderful, particularly if you are sitting in one, over an inhospitable stretch of ocean. The last one I saw was an Aerolineas Argentina A340 at Auckland. Buenos Aires to Auckland is a SERIOUS over-water trip. 5800 nm with the great-circle route getting down to 58 S.

[dubbleyew eight]

surely the worlds most dangerous aeroplane is the wooden falco.
I saw drew's example sitting there on the tarmac at a flyin and it was doing at least 200 knots just sitting there parked.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5qIB2ZYEqXeGOOyBc8Bdk0anrRgVnIOe4L_0XkOx _BYcsuo1J

the photo is of another falco ....but you get what I mean.

[sablatnic]

Burt Rutan's Boomerang, after you have come over the initial shock.

[Saab Dastard]

Burt Rutan's Boomerang Which owes much to Messrs. Blohm & Voss, perhaps?

SD

[IFMU]

One airplane that looks right to me, but I have never flown is the Ryan STA.
I don't know if I can say the PA25 looks right. But I have more hours in them than any other single type. They fly right, especially when unburdened by a glider.
I have flown a few different gliders, and owned an L33 Solo and a 1-35C. The humble 1-26 makes up in handling qualities what it lacks in performance.

My favorite is the Pitts. What a delightful machine to fly. Horrible for sightseeing though. But, we have J3's for that.
Bryan

[Dan Winterland]

Glider: The KA6E.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7582935540_1190219c4e_b.jpg

Looks beautiful, handles like it looks. 1:34 glide from a wooden glider, it's just very nice!


Light aircraft: There is only one!

http://www.pictures.flyerlist.org.uk/images/chipmunk.jpg

It looks good and it's handling is the best of any small piston I have flown, including the aforementioned SF260 which is nice and powerful - but doesn't quite match the Chippy for harmonised handling.

Fast Jet:

http://aerobaticteams.net/images/red-arrows/red-arrows-hawk-06.jpg

OK, so it's not really a proper fast jet - and I haven't flown many of them. But it flies beautifully and just looks the business. It just could use a bit more power though.


Bomber:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1080254F.jpg

It has the look that says "Death and destruction is coming your way" and flies pretty mean too!

Airliner:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/wallpapers/vc10/vc10_03_0800.jpg

It looks right and is the nicest handling big jet I've ever flown - a real pilot's aircraft. Nicer to fly the 747-400 which somebody mentioned, in fact the Classic 747 is nicer to fly than the 400.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Nice choices, Dan. Especially this one, far and a way the best handling of the many light aircraft I've flown:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/OtherChippyinformationres.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/OtherChippyinformationres.jpg.html)


I've no airline flying experience, but the VC10 takes some beating in the looks stakes. However, I think this tops it:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/IMG_6702resized-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/IMG_6702resized-1.jpg.html)

[shortstripper]

For me ...

Pure beautiful lines ... Spitfire, Mosquito, Hawker Hunter, Taylor titch and Globe Swift.

A little ugly but beautiful ... Hawker Hurricane (My favourite aeroplane ever), Piper Pawnee, Vought Corsair, Avro Lancaster, Vickers Wellington, Lysander and my old T31m G-BZLK.

Gliders ... Agree with Dan, K6E but also Slingsby Kirby Petrel.

SS

[Small Rodent Driver]

Another vote for the Chipmunk. Nicest handling aircraft I have flown and looks to me "a proper aeroplane".

I think the Cub has an aesthetic charm as well in a caricature kind of way. I love to just look at it in the hangar. Never fails to make me grin.

Fouga Magister does it for me also.

[treadigraph]

Don't think it's had a mention yet; the Fournier RF-4, looks delightful and I have heard it described as an aerial Stradivarius.

[Dan Winterland]

I didn't think to put a motor glider in my list, but if I did it would be the RF3. (Same as the 4, but with a wood spar, smaller engine and no aerobatics). I owned a RF3 for two years and it's a delight. It looks cute, but like many motor gliders is a compromise and the harmonisation isn't great. It needs more bite in the rudder. Also, mine didn't have a decompressor, so if you switched the engine off, that was it. I once landed out and had to hand swing and take off again. It didn't soar very well!

I thought about helicopters, but none look right and none fly right!

[Small Rodent Driver]

The only helicopters I find in any way attractive are the Bell Jetranger and the M.A.S.H. Bell 47.

Probably borne of the dreams I had about flying them at low level when I was a kid.

[surely not]

What's all this anti Airbus stuff?
The Boeing 737 is an ugly aeroplane and the 727 wasn't as pretty as a HS Trident.

The Stratocruiser from an earlier era was horrible to look at.

The A320 is a cute looking aeroplane compared to many modern efforts.

I like the lines of the Piaggio Avanti, classy and sleek.

The Beech Staggerwing is also a favourite.

The Miles Gemini always looked pretty much right. Chunky and business like.

The 777 and the 330 look pretty much the same, but the A350 has a bit of wow about it.

For warplanes I would have to go American and choose the F15 and the B1B

[IFMU]

For helicopters I was going to say the Sikorsky X2. Bit off the original topic of GA but not as far off as some entries.

[Dan Winterland]

The A320 is a cute looking aeroplane compared to many modern efforts

And it flies just like the manufacturer intends - artificially! It's fly by wire controls make it stable and easy to operate with many of the flying skills normally expected of a pilot enhanced by it's systems. And it's handling can be changed by the software engineers - as it has been on several occasions before! I would say it looks functional - which is how it handles. You could only get a measure of how it would really fly with all the automatics disabled in direct law - which has never happened to me in 6000 hours on the type.

[Saab Dastard]

The A320 is a cute looking aeroplane compared to many modern efforts
It may be cute and it may fly beautifully, but I've always thought that the wings looked like they were too far forward for it to be truly elegant. It has a certain bat-like quality viewed nose-on from below.

SD

[effortless]

Is true direct law possible in airbus?

[Silvaire1]

My favourite is the A340, it reminds me of the 707 and DC8 - classic airliners!I've been doing a fair bit of over water traveling in A340s over the past couple of years, and I agree they're nice looking. Also that having four engines appeals to me in that over water role. That said, I was once in a 757 that had an engine failure on takeoff (bird ingestion) and it appeared to be almost a non-issue from the cabin. I'm glad it was only one...

A airline pilot friend who stuck with flying DC9s as long as he could, has recently been forced to move to A319s. He says its still not a bad job as jobs go, but retirement is looking better...

The Pitts S1S is maybe the most esthetically inspiring plane to me, but it has to do with everything being absolutely minimized in size... something like a 1960s cigar shaped racing car.

http://www.afors.com/Images/UserImages/Originals/1592_1_1_multipart_xF8FF_2_Cimg0100.jpg

The SF260 is wonderful too, but in a more expansive way - like a 1960s Ferrari.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/7/9/0/1595097.jpg

That Schleicher KA6E glider is undeniably lovely.

[jondc9]

if it looks right, it flies WRIGHT!!

[stickandrudderman]

I have flown three out of the four best looking aeroplanes:
Spitfire, Chipmunk and Falco with the SF260 remaining on my "to do" list.
All are beautiful to look at and to fly but since I own a Falco then she has to get my vote as No. 1.


(Anyone care to offer me a ride in a SF260?)

[Above The Clouds]

Shaggy

That is a fantastic picture, every aircraft looks great in its own right, what makes the picture even more enjoyable, people are wondering around the apron getting on with their own business doing their jobs and god forbid without a yellow jacket on, how on earth did they survive without intervention from the H&S brigade.

The S260 is a really nice aircraft, flew one from the UK to California many years ago that was fun.

[India Four Two]

The Chipmunk is one of the aircraft on the top of my list, preferably with a bubble canopy, but one thing that has never looked right to me is the fin and rudder.

Yes, I know why it's like that and yes, I know it looks like a scaled-down Mosquito, but aesthetically, it would look better with the fin further back , in line with the tail plane. ;)

[barit1]

http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/a-10/gallery/a-10_34.jpg