ATLP vs IR exmas

[macs86]

Hi All,

I'm having trouble getting my head around this. Are the caa written exams required for the IR EXACTLY the same as the ATPLs? I am aware that if you have sat your atpls you are eligible for an IR (providing you pass the air exercises and skills test of course) without having to sit more exams BUT if say you only wanted to do an IR (not atpl) then do you sit just some of the atlp exams, or different exams? What if you wanted to do your IR and then upgrade to an atpl? Do you have to resit the exams?

Thanks for any information / help in advance.

[RTN11]

They are completely different exams.

There are essentially three sets of exams. CPL, IR and ATPL.

If you only wanted a CPL you would the relevant exams which would include knowledge specific to commercial operations.

The IR exams then contain topics more specific to instrument flying.

The ATPL exams then also include a whole load of stuff specific to airlines. A lot of this is quite generic about jet engines, or how many cabin crew you need, or fire axes, or whatever. Some of this may not be in the CPL or IR exams, as with those licences you'll never be able to fly an aircraft big enough to warrant it.

If all you want is an IR, do the IR exams. If you have any inclination of going into an airline, do the ATPL exams from the onset. It's about 5 more exams so may cost an extra £1000 or so, but if you did the IR exams first and then changed your mind you'd have to do the whole lot again for the ATPL.

[macs86]

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up RTN11

[2close]

On top of the informative post from RTN11, if you are not interested in flying Commercial Air Transport but nevertheless think that at some point in the future you may wish to add a specific Type Rating to your CPL/IR, e.g. King Air or Citation, you WILL need ATPL theory to undertake your first Type Rating.

The general advice is that, if you are ever thinking of going above and beyond GA flying for fun you should do ATPL theory. Once you have it completed, you have 3 years to get your CPL and IR issued and once issued the ATPL theory credits remain valid for 7 years from the date of your last IR proficiency check.

:)

[macs86]

Ok that is useful information, thanks. Out of interest are the questions in the IR exams EXACTLY the same as in the ATPLs, just a bit less of the air transport stuff? Or are they different? for example - could you use ATPL training manuals (or question banks) to study for the IR (and CPL for that matter), or is it a different syllabus with different questions?

Thanks.

[RTN11]

You need to be on a registered course to take any of the exams, and would be provided appropriate manuals. It's not just a case of buying the manuals and having a go like it was at PPL level, only a registered training provider can enter you for the exams having signed off that you have completed a proper course (be that distance learning or residential).

[macs86]

Thanks RTN11 - i did know that but i guess what im asking is if you are registered on an ATPL course (say BGS distance learning) would you be able to enter for the IR exams based on that course? Or is it a different course with different material?

I know its a bit of an odd question... but there is a method to this madness. Thanks :)

[RTN11]

As far as I am aware, the courses are not interchangeable. If you register for an ATPL course, you would not be able to sit the IR exams.

Perhaps contact Bristol direct, they would have the answer, but generally speaking it's quite strict as to the course content and the syllabus you would only be eligible to take the exams you have studied for.

[Midland Transport]

The IR content is taken from the ATPL course so much of what you study is identical. Depending on whch of the 7 exam topics the question bank used will be a varying percentage of the ATPL question bank. If I did it again I would do the complete ATPL theory course otherwise there would be a lot of duplication unless you only want to go as far as the IR. Under the new EASA IR there will be a significantly reduced question bank so this may also be a factor in your decision if you want to stop at the IR

[Alex Whittingham]

Currently the IR questions are a subset of the ATPL questions, in other words exactly the same questions as the ATPL in some areas, other areas are excluded. I hear from the CAA, however, that EASA are trying to produce a bank of completely new questions for the EIR and Modular IR(A), this apparently is what is holding up the introduction of these ratings.

The general advice for aeroplanes, not helicopters, is that unless you are confident you will not need ATPL theory you should do the ATPLs rather than the IR exams even though it is more work initially. This is because as RTN11 says (1) you need valid ATPL theory to even fly as a first officer on most multi-crew aircraft and also because (2) if you do only the IR first, then decide later you need ATPLs, you need to do all the ATPL exams from scratch including the ones you already passed for IR.

If you entered for an ATPL course and then elected just to do the papers that cover the IR exams you can. There is a question mark over whether an approved ATPL ATO can sign you off for the (identical) IR papers without approval to teach IR courses, its one of those details that they didn't really think about when Part-FCL was formulated. The quick way around it is for the ATO to also get IR approval. I say quick, but the CAA are snowed under with approval applications at the moment, and ours is in the pile. If you are in a rush CATS do an IR course, as do Ground Training Services at Bournemouth.

[Cows getting bigger]

Alex, just to clarify one point, there is nothing stopping someone doing either the full atpl or IR ground school and exams then commencing an EIR or CB-IR. The delay in issuing approvals to the ATOs (the flying ones) appears to be just backlog.

[Alex Whittingham]

I guess not, the UK CAA told me that they weren't allowed to issue groundschool approvals yet for the EIR, but that wouldn't stop someone holding the full IR or ATPL exam credits doing the flying elements.

[paco]

"If you are in a rush CATS do an IR course, as do Ground Training Services at Bournemouth. "

And us! :)

Should have the other stuff through soon as well.

[CrabbitOldBugger]

Do CAPT offer training for the IR(A)?

[paco]

We have the full range from PPL to ATPL in both categories. In short, yes. :)